[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by lostalex

you really don't think she's being demonized at all? so calling her a witch, you don't think that's demonization?

Hi Lostalex, I can take on board where you are coming from in your posts and you also know I respect your opinion too.

I would be the first to say that Margaret Thatcher was a strong leader of her party and PM too,a strong PM too but not in mostly the right ways.

On the International stage she was an incredible figure,no doubt about that, I wasn't born but near all my Family were supporters of her.
I can fully understand those not resident in the UK seeing her as this amazing leader and there is no doubting at all that she was really virtually adored in the USA.

However as I have watched this near canonisation of her over this last week and then really going into the policies she followed. I can see why a great part of the UK population are annoyed at all these over the top tributes,especially when they come from the 2 faced people in her party who were the ones who got rid of her, not the voters.

My gripe and also my fury at the near hijacking of this funeral by the current PM and his Govt has grown steadily over the last week.
I object 100% to a single pence of taxpayers funding to this funeral, her family are extremely well off, the Conservative party which was in effect her employer should have made the main contributions to this funeral and also the rich donors of that party too.
That would have been not only the right thing to do but also the decent thing to do when this Govt. is trying to take away from people on benefits hefty chunks of that benefit.

Funding the funeral that way would have eased a lot of the tensions and not increased the fury of those who were opposed to her policies and more to the point had suffered massively through loss of jobs and livelihoods because of them.

I see no reason for the pomp of this funeral, I am also furious the Queen is attending it too.
My Parents who were strong supporters of her at her height of power are also furious taxpayers are being told they are covering the costs of part of this funeral,never even being asked.
Yet the Govt sees fit to 'invite' celebrities to this funeral, again people who could also have made contributions to it, if they felt that strongly.

I feel myself,the people being demonised are those who have dared to speak out against the circus this funeral is becoming.
No dissenting voices allowed, all must toe the line and agree with whatever downing Street announces as to this event.

It is said, we should have respect for an old lady with a family and grandchildren who has died, if this funeral had refleceted that status rather than the pomp of her professional status then all would have been much less as to tensions.
Also though, respect has to be earned, respect doesn't come from telling people what they have to accept but by asking them.
That was not the way though of Margaret Thatcher when she was in power and it for certain is not the way of this Govt led by opportunist David Cameron and his nodding dog Nick Clegg.

I personally hold great respect for Margaret thatcher as a fellow human being,I hope she is at peace and that all goes well tomorrow.
I fear it may not however, and it is likely some people are likely going to get criminal records for their opposition and the way they express it as to this funeral

I also believe that is more likely because of the way this PM and his Govt has planned this whole event by increasing the tensions and anger rather than handling it well and setting out to relieve them.
For me I am strongly opposed to the Queens attendance at this funeral and the using of taxpayers funds for any part of it and no one will shut me up as to venting my spleen at that.

I do see where you are coming from and others who admired her,I fully respect your stance and theirs.
However politics is a divisive fact of life and just as those who admired Margaret Thatcher should be able to crow from the rooftops how wonderful they thought she was, then also those who had not a single bit of time for her should be able to have the right to voice their disagreement to that without being demonised and told they are being petty and disrespectful.

People who feel they cannot show respect to someone who in their eyes didn't earn their respect should not have to be turned into hypocrites and by silence give agreement to those doing all the 'how great she was' crowing.
Much of their crowing is false too since many of them were the backstabbers of her own party who destroyed her political career and time as PM of the UK anyway.

Sorry this is long, I do tend to go on a bit.

[lostalex]

I keep on seeing you guys saying she's being so lauded and canonized in the british media. I don't see it. maybe it's because I read the Guardian everyday, so maybe i'm not getting the full picture. I see basically only criticism.

Maybe that's my fault for thinking that the Guardian represents the UK.

I don't see evrything obviously, and i guess the Guardian isn't giving me a very accurate portrait of what's really going on in UK media about her.

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Hi Lostalex, I can take on board where you are coming from in your posts and you also know I respect your opinion too.

I would be the first to say that Margaret Thatcher was a strong leader of her party and PM too,a strong PM too but not in mostly the right ways.

On the International stage she was an incredible figure,no doubt about that, I wasn't born but near all my all Family were supporters of her.
I can fully understand those not resident in the UK seeing her as this amazing leader and therer is no doubting at all that she was really virtually adored in the USA.

However as I have watched this near canonisation of her over this last week and then really going into the policies she followed. I can see why a great part of the UK population are annoyed at all these over the top tributes,especially when they come from the 2 faced people in her party who were the ones who got rid of her, not the voters.

My gripe and also my fury at the near hijacking of this funeral by the current PM and his Govt,has grown steadily over the last week.
I object 100% to a single pence of taxpayers funding to this funeral, her family are extremely well off, the Conservative party which was in effect her employer should have made the main contributions to this funeral and also the rich donors of that party too.
That would have been not only the right thing to do but also the decent thing to do when this Govt is trying to take away from people on benefits hefty chunks of that benefit.

Funding the funeral that way would have eased a lot of the tensions and not increased the fury of those who were opposed to her policies and more to the point had suffered massively through loss of jobs and livelihoods because of them.

I see no reason for the pomp of this funeral, I am also furious the Queen is attending it too.
My Parents who were strong supporters of her at her height of power are also furious taxpayers are being told they are covering the costs of part of this funeral,never even being asked.
Yet the Govt sees fit to 'invite' celebrities to this funeral, again people who could also have made contributions to it, if they felt that strongly.

I feel myself,the people being demonised are those who have dared to speak out against the circus this funeral is becoming.
No dissenting voices allowed, all must toe the line and agree with whatever downing Street announces as to this event.

It is said, we should have respect for an old lady with a family and grandchildren who has died, if this funeral had refleceted that status rather than the pomp of her professional status then all would have been must less as to tensions.
Also though, respect has to be earned, respect doesn't come from telling people what they have to accept but by asking them, that was not the way though of Margaret Thatcher when she was in power and it for certain is not the way of this Govt led by opportunist David Cameron and his nodding dog Nick Clegg.

I personally hold great respect for Margaret thatcher as a fellow human being,I hope she is at peace and that all goes well tomorrow.
I fear it may not however, and it is likely some people are likely going to get criminal records for their opposition and the way they express it as to this funeral

I also believe that is more likely because of the way this PM and his Govt has planned this whole event by increasing the tensions and anger rather than handling it well and setting out to relieve them.
For me I am strongly opposed to the Queens attendance at this funeral and the using of taxpayers funds for any part of it and no one will shut me up as to venting my spleen at that.

I do see where you are coming from and others who admired her,I fully respect your stance and theirs.
However politics is a divisive fact of life and just as those who admired Margaret Thacher should be able to crow from the rooftops how wonderful they thought she was, then also those who had not a single bit of time for her should be able to have the right to voice their disagreement to that without being demonised and told they are being petty and disrespectful.

People who feel they cannot show respect to someone who in their eyes didn't earn their respect should not have to be turned into hypocrites and by silence give agreement to those doing all the 'how great she was' crowing.
Much of their crowing is false too since many of them were the backstabbers of her own party who destroyed her political career and time as Pm of the UK anyway.

Sorry this is long, I do tend to go on a bit.

Excellent post.

Originally Posted by lostalex

I keep on seeing you guys saying she's being so lauded and canonized in the british media. I don't see it. maybe it's because I read the Guardian everyday, so maybe i'm not getting the full picture. I see basically only criticism.

Maybe that's my fault for thinking that the Guardian represents the UK.

I don't see evrything obviously, and i guess the Guardian isn't giving me a very accurate portrait of what's really going on in UK media about her.

The Guardian seems to be one of the only national British newspapers that is offering any kind of counter opinion on this whole farce. The Sun is the biggest selling newspaper in the UK, I'd try reading that and the Mail to see how she's being lauded about as some saint. The BBC really haven't helped much at all either which is thoroughly disappointing.

[Brother Leon]

Originally Posted by lostalex

well you said you'd pull out some popcorn to watch it. maybe taking out popcorn means something else in the UK... is popcorn some sort of rhyming slang that i don't get? cause i thought it meant you'd enjoy sitting down for a night of entertainment. like a movie.

Popcorn is a snack for when you are watching something....Pretty basic stuff this. and tbf watching possible riots would be more entertaining than most TV nowadays anyway....keep reaching though.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Jack_

Yeah, I was referring to the government and media's gross adulation which is being imposed upon us with these excessive plans for her funeral (I thought I made that clear in the post you quoted), not anyone else's view or how they're treating her...

All we're hearing is endless praise for the woman as if we're all supposed to put up and shut up, the 'demonisation' is being silenced by those in power if anything

you are 100% spot on, bravo
the BBC and others are meant to be independent yet many interviews have consisted of 2 or 3 titled elitists simple fighting over who could pour the most praise and give the most exaggerated eulogy

In Llanelli a town famous for rugby and steelworks (and huw edwards lol), they still have trostre, however they used to have copperworks and duport steel to name but a few.........the suport steel works made fortunes for 30 years before thatcher, she came into power put inflation through the roof, she then deliberately shut it down, dismantled all the parts , stole the methods, (stole the best furnaces in the world) had them exported to south africa and simply restarted the company over there paying the s africans peanuts.........AND GUESS WHO GOT RICH OFF IT AS THE HEAD OF THE BOARD? thats right her husband

this is how it works across the board under thatcher and radical right wing leaders, they dismantle state owned/run nationalised industries and sold them off to their rich friends or simply broke up the parts......gordon gekko was a pussycat compared to thatcher

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Jack_

The Guardian seems to be one of the only national British newspapers that is offering any kind of counter opinion on this whole farce. The Sun is the biggest selling newspaper in the UK, I'd try reading that and the Mail to see how she's being lauded about as some saint. The BBC really haven't helped much at all either which is thoroughly disappointing.

Totally right again Jack, I am equally as annoyed at the BBC as to near the whole of the last week.
It has rarely had any dissenting voices as to this funeral and indeed overall.
The special Question Time from Finchley was the final straw for me.
What a biased place to go to, in effect another in the main tribute programme.

George Galloway has been 100% right as to the bias and hypocrisy of the BBC.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Totally right again Jack, I am equally as annoyed at the BBC as to near the whole of the last week.
It has rarely had any dissenting voices as to this funeral and indeed overall.
The special Question Time from Finchley was the final straw for me.
What a biased place to go to, in effect another in the main tribute programme.

George Galloway has been 100% right as to the bias and hypocrisy of the BBC.

George Galloway the rape apologist right? "it's not rape, just bad sexual etiquette" That guy? He's a low life bottom feeder.

According to George Galloway ****ing a woman while she's unconscious isn't "rape" it's just "bad sexual etiquette".

because if she's unconscious she can't say no, right? He's such a slime ball piece of crap.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by lostalex

George Galloway the rape apologist right? "it's not rape, just bad sexual etiquette" That guy? He's a low life bottom feeder.

According to George Galloway ****ing a woman while she's unconscious isn't "rape" it's just "bad sexual etiquette".

because if she's unconscious she can't say no, right? He's such a slime ball piece of crap.

I rarely ever agree with George Galloway too Lostalex, however he made very sound and strong points as to this funeral.
I don't agree with much he says politically or the way he says it,however he is not always wrong and he is one of the few who have been able to get his views on this across and on this occasion his views match mine and I acknowledge that happily and applaud him for it.

[arista]

"Labour frontbencher Diane Abbott today
renewed her criticism of the funeral,
claiming the costs was unprecedented
and accusing Mr Cameron of turning it into a political event"


Fecking Blair and Brown set this up.
Somebody slap her

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by arista

"Labour frontbencher Diane Abbott today
renewed her criticism of the funeral,
claiming the costs was unprecedented
and accusing Mr Cameron of turning it into a political event"


Fecking Blair and Brown set this up.
Somebody slap her

It'de be a pleasure Arista,lol you do make me smile

[Nedusa]

Originally Posted by bobnot

Good post.
jesus he doesnt bow to the tory scum does he good on him.

"David Cameron has actively avoided ministers question time session for 4 weeks running" sounds like a coward to me.

I agree, George Galloway is one of the few Politicians who actually has a conscience and tells it like it is regardless of the repercussions.

He is spot on re Thatcher and the blatant hypocrisy surrounding her Funeral. If only we'd had a few more politicians like him then the country might well not be in the dire state it is in today.....!!!!

[joeysteele]

Blair and Brown may have set up the plans of this funeral but it is David Cameron and his Govt that have enacted it and to my mind David Cameron has possibly near hijacked it for other purposes,I think that criticism has legs to run yet.

Also when this was drawn up, we were not in the situation we are now where people on the lowest incomes are having money taken off them that they were told they were entitled to, by all means not give them more but to take already in place entitlements away from them at a stroke is something I doubt even Margaret Thatcher herself would have actually done.

I still maintain, not a bit of taxpayers money should have gone to this funeral and I still maintain the Queen should not have been there too.

Since people who are usually strongly anti Labour but pro the Conservatives are having to admit the plans for this were originally drawn up by 2 Labour PMs, it would be nice to see some credit given to them for that from them.

However,I don't care who did draw the plans up in the first place,Tony Blair and Gordon Brown or Tony Blair or Gordon Brown, to me they were wrong to include any public funding as was the person who finally had to enact the plans too namely David Cameron especially when he is following crippling,heartless and unjust policies against the poorest, weakest, sick, disabled and most vulnerable of the UK citizens.

[the truth]

galloway is 100% right. has anyone noticed not one working class person has been interviewed today nor in the past week on the bbc? all weve had is titled aristocrats. so much for balance and impartiality. and of course ALL funded for by US the tax payer, the working classes and the society she said didnt exist.