[arista]

One half wants to be in Europe the other half
wants Russia.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/blo...p-live-updates

US considering joining EU in backing sanctions
French, German and Polish foreign ministers head to Kiev
Health ministry says 26 people killed in clashes



http://news.sky.com/story/1213843/uk...rror-operation

[Nedusa]

Funny that.........we had the same type of situation over here a few years back. One half of Northern Ireland wanted to be part of the Irish Republic the other half remain British. Result stalemate and a concocted Peace accord that doesn't really help either side although some might say the Unionists got a far better deal.

Ukraine similarly will never be allowed to divide along these lines....they need to work through their problems, Russia is never going away any time soon (Half of Ukrainians have Russian blood and family in Russia) and as for the EU well what can Ukraine offer to the EU other than more mass immigration.

So I would be happy if Ukraine stayed where it is and patched up its differences with Russia.

I can't help thinking this current situation in kiev has been inflammed by political tampering from Russia and the West (US)

[Z]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

Funny that.........we had the same type of situation over here a few years back. One half of Northern Ireland wanted to be part of the Irish Republic the other half remain British. Result stalemate and a concocted Peace accord that doesn't really help either side although some might say the Unionists got a far better deal.

Ukraine similarly will never be allowed to divide along these lines....they need to work through their problems, Russia is never going away any time soon (Half of Ukrainians have Russian blood and family in Russia) and as for the EU well what can Ukraine offer to the EU other than more mass immigration.

So I would be happy if Ukraine stayed where it is and patched up its differences with Russia.

I can't help thinking this current situation in kiev has been inflammed by political tampering from Russia and the West (US)

Ukraine's more or less Russia's bitch. 40 million people need gas supplies from Russia and if Ukraine tries to move towards EU then Russia can and will cut them off and the EU has no way of providing the Ukrainian people any kind of safety net seeing as it imports all its gas from Russia too. The EU wants Ukraine in its sphere of influence because 40 million people adding to the pool of resources is a good thing. Of course this situation has been aggravated by the West tampering in Russia's playground. The same thing would happen if they tried to incorporate Moldova or Belarus. As for Ukraine's government, it's just stuck between a rock and a hard place and has been trying to manoeuvre its way into a bargaining position by playing the field... but you can't do that when your population is so deeply divided and you've made the bold move of nearly signing EU papers and then slam the brakes on when Putin comes round offering concessions that the EU could never provide.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Zee

Ukraine's more or less Russia's bitch. 40 million people need gas supplies from Russia and if Ukraine tries to move towards EU then Russia can and will cut them off and the EU has no way of providing the Ukrainian people any kind of safety net seeing as it imports all its gas from Russia too. The EU wants Ukraine in its sphere of influence because 40 million people adding to the pool of resources is a good thing. Of course this situation has been aggravated by the West tampering in Russia's playground. The same thing would happen if they tried to incorporate Moldova or Belarus. As for Ukraine's government, it's just stuck between a rock and a hard place and has been trying to manoeuvre its way into a bargaining position by playing the field... but you can't do that when your population is so deeply divided and you've made the bold move of nearly signing EU papers and then slam the brakes on when Putin comes round offering concessions that the EU could never provide.

Yes
the Russian side has all the Energy Plants
and Factorys.


Putin wants it out of Europe

[Z]

Russia's more protective of Ukraine than its other near abroad interests because Russia technically was 'born' in Ukrainian territory (Kievan Rus')

[arista]

Zee Prof of Russia

[Nedusa]

The longer this violence and mayhem continues the more the ordinary Kievian will look over at stable Russia and wish that could be them, and in their eyes Putin will take credit and will be seen through envious eyes by the people of Ukraine.

Russia is purposely keeping out of this as it stands to gain politically by not being drawn into this mess. The current President Yanukovych is an out and out disgrace. He has failed the people of Ukraine at every turn from the lack of any democratic progress in his Govt, the lack of progress in nearly all the reforms he promised to make and worst of all his utter and complete incompetance in his handling of this protest.

He has actually made the situation a lot worse by not employing the correct police with the correct weapons and training. He has no idea how to handle this protest which now threatens to escalate alarmingly quicky and is polarizing the Country to the point where worst case scenario could actually be Civil War and all the bloodshed that would bring.

And having other nations like the EU countries sticking their noses in helps no one, This is Ukraines mess and must be sorted out by Ukraine...!!!

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

The longer this violence and mayhem continues the more the ordinary Kievian will look over at stable Russia and wish that could be them, and in their eyes Putin will take credit and will be seen through envious eyes by the people of Ukraine.

Russia is purposely keeping out of this as it stands to gain politically by not being drawn into this mess. The current President Yanukovych is an out and out disgrace. He has failed the people of Ukraine at every turn from the lack of any democratic progress in his Govt, the lack of progress in nearly all the reforms he promised to make and worst of all his utter and complete incompetance in his handling of this protest.

He has actually made the situation a lot worse by not employing the correct police with the correct weapons and training. He has no idea how to handle this protest which now threatens to escalate alarmingly quicky and is polarizing the Country to the point where worst case scenario could actually be Civil War and all the bloodshed that would bring.

And having other nations like the EU countries sticking their noses in helps no one, This is Ukraines mess and must be sorted out by Ukraine...!!!

That would be nice if it was Ukraines mess, but actually it's Russia that has stuck it's nose in and caused on all this, and certainly someone should counter balance the INTERFERENCE by the Ruskies. Russia has been ****ing up eastern Europe for over 60 years, don't you think the Ukrainians deserve better finally? i do.

They want to join Europe, and be a fully European country like Germany, or France or the UK, they are SICK of being Russian lap dogs, and sick of being second-class Europeans. Eastern Europeans are Europeans too!

[Nedusa]

I'm afraid its a little more complicated than that..........half of Ukraineians are of Russian descent and have family in Russia and most of all they trust Russia.

But I agree Ukraine need to sort out their Govt have full and proper democratic elections and sing with one voice and ..yes when required stand up to Russia instead of letting Russia control it.

But whilst Ukraine is in political turmoil Russia will exploit its historical links with the Ukraineian people to gain political influence.

[arista]

Yes that why
a Split nation is better
a Civil War is on now
all news

[arista]

EU live now saying Sanctions
against Ukraine,
and they want Elections?

But the Russian Backed Leader has said no election planned
as his nation is in a Civil War
Mob Rule.


[Ch4News 7PM has reported Snipers
are from the Riot Police
shooting there legs as the Mob moved forward
could this be a East - West War soon]

[Z]

It's all good and well saying Ukraine should just stand up to Russia but Russia has it in a vice grip; if they want to split with Russia and become an EU country then there will be heavy consequences and absolutely no politicians willing to be the ones to accept those. The backlash would be too intense. And yet doing nothing, trying to keep the status quo, has resulted in intense backlash. It will be interesting to see where the country goes from here.

[MTVN]

I wouldn't call it a civil war yet, it's more a temporary political disagreement about where their greater interests lie that has gotten way out of hand. It's pretty tricky for the government because with protests like these the protesters tend to have pretty definite goals which they aren't willing to negotiate on, with the US and the EU backing them they have the confidence to demand what they want and nothing less. They can also rely on the western media to relay the familiar tale of popular resistance vs an oppressive dictator even if that isn't necessarily the case. Shock horror, the protectors want closer ties to the EU therefore the EU impose sanctions, it's just gonna entrench the Ukranian government and their supporters in their view that it's external forces leading this opposition rather than being a legitimate popular protest

[arista]

Originally Posted by MTVN

I wouldn't call it a civil war yet, it's more a temporary political disagreement about where their greater interests lie that has gotten way out of hand. It's pretty tricky for the government because with protests like these the protesters tend to have pretty definite goals which they aren't willing to negotiate on, with the US and the EU backing them they have the confidence to demand what they want and nothing less. They can also rely on the western media to relay the familiar tale of popular resistance vs an oppressive dictator even if that isn't necessarily the case. Shock horror, the protectors want closer ties to the EU therefore the EU impose sanctions, it's just gonna entrench the Ukranian government and their supporters in their view that it's external forces leading this opposition rather than being a legitimate popular protest

Yes USA Vs Russia
in a big back garden

[Z]

Yet another proxy war, the Cold War never really ended between those two

[arista]

Ukraine Opposition Signs Deal With President

http://news.sky.com/story/1215040/uk...with-president


lets see if the Nazi Party behave?

[MTVN]

So despite a peace deal where they get what they want the protesters won't leave All the focus has been on the protesters who've been killed which of course is sad but nobody really cares that more than a dozen policeman have died and I think over 300 (maybe 400) badly injured, it's not as simple a tale of oppressed people vs dictator as a lot of the reports make out

[Kizzy]

Who got what they wanted?... This isn't the end, Russia will wait until the eyes of the world are averted.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Who got what they wanted?... This isn't the end, Russia will wait until the eyes of the world are averted.

They want the President Sacked
until then they can not be trusted

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Who got what they wanted?... This isn't the end, Russia will wait until the eyes of the world are averted.

The opposition obviously considering they agreed a peace deal yesterday granting early elections..

[arista]

The Boxer is taking control

[arista]

http://news.sky.com/story/1215638/uk...e-live-updates
Live Updates link

[Marc]

This photo is pretty stunning, horrific but stunning

[arista]

Originally Posted by Marc

This photo is pretty stunning, horrific but stunning

Yes they want to Kill the president
or get him out of power Fast.
But he is Not Leaving
and Russia backs him.
He is is the Russian side
but back in Central they want him impeached



If only we could do that with Blair

[arista]

[President Stopped From Leaving Country
Ukraine President Viktor Yanukovych
has been refused permission to fly out
of the country after he apparently left
the capital following violent unrest.
A charter plane thought to have the politician
onboard was denied permission to take
off from Donetsk, in eastern Ukraine,
on Saturday night, according to
the State Border Service.]



Trying to get on the Helicopter


http://news.sky.com/story/1215881/uk...eaving-country


Sign Of The Times