[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Spare the sociology lecture please, It does stick in my craw the fact that this 'man' may have honed his skills whilst at her majesties pleasure, then walked out into this fantastic opportunity.
Nobody is suggesting he never work again, but this is for me smacks of some odd ill thought out publicity stunt to get media attention for jamies restaurant.

I didn't quote and wasn't "lecturing" you, Kizzy, I was quoting and agreeing with Dezzy who was quoting a suggestion that anyone who breaks the law must "pay for the rest of their lives".

I know your names are similar so I understand the confusion.

For what it's worth, it actually does irk me, slightly, that prisoners get to learn skills and trades "for free" that aren't easy to access for young people in everyday life either through lack of places or simply because they can't afford the tuition fees. It seems completely wrong that someone can go to jail for 5 years and come out more skilled and more employable (often with the possibility of self employment) than someone who has been slogging away in something low paid like a retail job for 5 years. I'm just not sure what the alternative is.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I didn't quote and wasn't "lecturing" you, Kizzy, I was quoting and agreeing with Dezzy who was quoting a suggestion that anyone who breaks the law must "pay for the rest of their lives".

I know your names are similar so I understand the confusion.

For what it's worth, it actually does irk me, slightly, that prisoners get to learn skills and trades "for free" that aren't easy to access for young people in everyday life either through lack of places or simply because they can't afford the tuition fees. It seems completely wrong that someone can go to jail for 5 years and come out more skilled and more employable (often with the possibility of self employment) than someone who has been slogging away in something low paid like a retail job for 5 years. I'm just not sure what the alternative is.

..yeah I do understand that as well, TS...but then, it's like you say..what is the alternative..?..because part of rehabilitation is in learning those skills and feeling a 'worth' which will help create self belief and a positive in their life... I think one of the things for me here and what I would like to see is prison sentences in entirety being served for crimes ...not the '5 years meaning 2 years in reality' etc...

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..yeah I do understand that as well, TS...but then, it's like you say..what is the alternative..?..because part of rehabilitation is in learning those skills and feeling a 'worth' which will help create self belief and a positive in their life... I think one of the things for me here and what I would like to see is prison sentences in entirety being served for crimes ...not the '5 years meaning 2 years in reality' etc...

I think ultimately the solution has to be that they can gain these skills and that worth in prison - the balance needs to be brought from the positive side for everyone else, i.e. affordable access to these skills and training for ALL young people, right up to the age of 30. There have been a lot of programmes / apprenticeships set up to help post-school teenagers and people in their early 20's to gain a skill or a trade but that doesn't go far enough... there are many perfectly capable people in their mid to late 20's and even early 30's (still young!) who need those opportunities too. Basically, it should be made "fair" by providing similar opportunities to everyone, rather than by removing the opportunities from prisons.

We're a long, long way from anything like that happening, though.

I do agree about sentencing though. A sentence should be what it is - you get 5 years, if you keep clean in prison you get out in 5 years, to the day. Time should be added ON for any criminal activity / violence perpetrated whilst in prison... rather than time taken off for "good behaviour". The only time taken off a sentence should be for time served on remand during a trial.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I didn't quote and wasn't "lecturing" you, Kizzy, I was quoting and agreeing with Dezzy who was quoting a suggestion that anyone who breaks the law must "pay for the rest of their lives".

I know your names are similar so I understand the confusion.

For what it's worth, it actually does irk me, slightly, that prisoners get to learn skills and trades "for free" that aren't easy to access for young people in everyday life either through lack of places or simply because they can't afford the tuition fees. It seems completely wrong that someone can go to jail for 5 years and come out more skilled and more employable (often with the possibility of self employment) than someone who has been slogging away in something low paid like a retail job for 5 years. I'm just not sure what the alternative is.

I was fully aware you weren't speaking to me personally, there was no confusion.
My response was to the concept of offenders being treated like outcasts this hasn't been the case for many years since the rehabilitation of offenders act 1974.

https://www.gov.uk/exoffenders-and-employment

What counts as a spent conviction
Convictions with a sentence of 4 years or less will become spent after a certain period of time. This is known as a ‘rehabilitation period’. Its length depends on how severe the penalty was.

Rehabilitation periods

Custodial sentence Rehabilitation period (from end of sentence)
0 - 6 months 2 years
6 - 30 months 4 years
30 months - 4 years 7 years
more than 4 years never

Therefore if he comes out at 23 fully trained then by 30 the offence is wiped and he no longer has to declare it to employers anyway.