[arista]

Yes I agree
Bloated BBC do as you are told

[joeysteele]

Well they won't cut waste,I would bet on that so they should just get rid of the licence fee anyway and be done with it once and for all.

[kirklancaster]

There was a time when the BBC made programs of utter excellence and the licence fee was justified. Sadly, those days are - for the most part - gone, and it is time for the licence fee to follow.

The 'Beeb' cannot even continue to try to justify its need of licence revenue by maintaining its refusal to accept advertising and the revenue from it, because increasingly there are blatant excamples of highly lucrative 'Product Placement' in a lot of its programs - including factual, variety, and drama - so its time for the hypocrisy to stop. In addition; where does the money raised from this Product Placement go? Is it in the accounts? If it is, then it totally negates any argument for still maintaining a 'No Advertising' policy. If it isn't, then'Hey Diddle Diddle, Some Fat Cat's On The Fiddle' - or perhaps it all just coincidental?

My own theory is - and it's bound to be unpopular on here, but is my genuine belief nonetheless - is that the powers that be at the BBC are no fools; in a cut throat, free market ecoconomy, where companies are competative and deliver or go to the wall, the BBC is one of the last true 'Nationalised Industries' and a bastion of old fashioned Socialism -- where performance does not matter, where efficiency does not matter, where executive pay checks and bonuses are not performance related and where a job is 'for life' irrespective of true ability to carry it out, and where profitability does not really matter because losses are not critical and extra revenue can always be raised by soaking the tax-paying public for more, via a deft raising of the licence costs.

If the licence is scrapped and in effect the BEEB 'privatised, the fat cats entrenched there will suddenly have to work for their money, will actually have to compete with market rivals to secure advertising revenue, and to produce high caliber programs which are also popular to ensure the kind of viewing figures which attract advertisers.

The Beeb fatcats know this only too well, and having to actually work to keep themselves in cream is not a prospect they relish.

Scrap the licence and have the rest of us purring with delight.

[Livia]

The government is telling the BBC to cut waste or lose the licence fee. The government is telling them that. That's hilarious... the waste in government departments is breath-taking and yet they're threatening the BBC over waste?

My parents pay a fortune for Sky. In comparison, the annual licence fee is something like three month's worth of Sky subscriptions. I have no problem playing the licence fee when you see what you get for it and I'm a generally big fan of the BBC, even though it's run more and more by touchy-feely greens and lefties.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Livia

The government is telling the BBC to cut waste or lose the licence fee. The government is telling them that. That's hilarious... the waste in government departments is breath-taking and yet they're threatening the BBC over waste?

My parents pay a fortune for Sky. In comparison, the annual licence fee is something like three month's worth of Sky subscriptions. I have no problem playing the licence fee when you see what you get for it and I'm a generally big fan of the BBC, even though it's run more and more by touchy-feely greens and lefties.

Livia, you were once my and Mock's campaign manager in planning to get rid of the licence fee on an election on here.
I still have good memories of that time.

Seriously,I think the licence fee should go, I just cannot see any rhyme or reason for it now myself in the Uk in the 21st century with so many other channels etc; on TV too.

It should certainly not be something anyone should be criminally prosecuted for as to not paying,when all else as to TV is paying by choice rather than force.
If you don't pay your SKY subscriptions,then you will find SKY cut off until you do.
That is a choice however, and some people are paying say Sky and then also paying the licence fee.

The other thing I hate about it is that you can have someone with a TV in every room of the house,who are on a massive income who only pay the exact same yearly fee as someone with a single small 19'' TV,who only have part time wages coming in or even worse, be stuck on JSA of around £70 a week and still have to pay this infernal thing.

I think it is well past the time where the BBC led in anything now as to TV,they can still be really good in some things but that can be said for near all channels.

The BBC should be funded differently in my view, pay per view or by some other subscription then people can have the choice they should have in my view, to either have the BBC or not to, without meaning they cannot have any other channels too just because of this dinosaur of a licence fee and law.

(That's my take anyway,I haven't changed one bit as to that since you led our campaign in that tibb election.
What a leader you were too,even though it was just a bit of fun at the time.)

[JoshBB]

Fair enough - but seriously have you seen the amount of waste within the government? A lot within the House of Lords too. £260k a year on champagne is fcking ridiculous

[Livia]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Livia, you were once my and Mock's campaign manager in planning to get rid of the licence fee on an election on here.
I still have good memories of that time.

Seriously,I think the licence fee should go, I just cannot see any rhyme or reason for it now myself in the Uk in the 21st century with so many other channels etc; on TV too.

It should certainly not be something anyone should be criminally prosecuted for as to not paying,when all else as to TV is paying by choice rather than force.
If you don't pay your SKY subscriptions,then you will find SKY cut off until you do.
That is a choice however, and some people are paying say Sky and then also paying the licence fee.

The other thing I hate about it is that you can have someone with a TV in every room of the house,who are on a massive income who only pay the exact same yearly fee as someone with a single small 19'' TV,who only have part time wages coming in or even worse, be stuck on JSA of around £70 a week and still have to pay this infernal thing.

I think it is well past the time where the BBC led in anything now as to TV,they can still be really good in some things but that can be said for near all channels.

The BBC should be funded differently in my view, pay per view or by some other subscription then people can have the choice they should have in my view, to either have the BBC or not to, without meaning they cannot have any other channels too just because of this dinosaur of a licence fee and law.

(That's my take anyway,I haven't changed one bit as to that since you led our campaign in that tibb election.
What a leader you were too,even though it was just a bit of fun at the time.)

Joey, with the law degree and being an ex-election agent for the Conservative Party, obviously I can make a good case for anything, whether I believe in it or not!

You've always been against the licence fee, I know that. And yes, we had a good time with the TiBB election, even though you were robbed...

[Livia]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

Fair enough - but seriously have you seen the amount of waste within the government? A lot within the House of Lords too. £260k a year on champagne is fcking ridiculous

In defence of the House of Lords, it's not like they sit quaffing champagne all day. A lot of it will be used for entertaining business leaders, foreign dignitaries, even constituents. The waste I was referring to is, for instance, the Ministry of Defence. Run by civilians with no clue how the armed forces work, they waste enough money every year to hire and equip an extra regiment. This at the same time they're cutting the forces to the bone while committing them to cover more areas. B*stards...

Off topic, but I was on a roll...

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Livia

In defence of the House of Lords, it's not like they sit quaffing champagne all day. A lot of it will be used for entertaining business leaders, foreign dignitaries, even constituents. The waste I was referring to is, for instance, the Ministry of Defence. Run by civilians with no clue how the armed forces work, they waste enough money every year to hire and equip an extra regiment. This at the same time they're cutting the forces to the bone while committing them to cover more areas. B*stards...

Off topic, but I was on a roll...

You may be a bit off topic but then again not really in my view,as you 'are' talking about waste and since the govt; is on about waste at the BBC, you are well within the range of extension of the topic, to point out waste you know as to govt; too.

I agree with all your post above too.

[smudgie]

I am quite happy to pay the license fee..lovely to watch a programme without adverts.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by smudgie

I am quite happy to pay the license fee..lovely to watch a programme without adverts.

TV is going in the direction of "on demand" now though, most broadcast television will be a thing of the past soon enough. Services like Netflix are now making their own original shows that are of brilliant quality, available more conveniently whenever you want to watch them, and are not interrupted with ads.

I know you pay a subscription fee for services like that, too... But for one, they are cheaper than the license fee, and for two, the point is that you have a choice. You can subscribe to services that have things that you want, or nothing at all. If you stop paying, you lose the service. You aren't hounded and made to feel like a criminal.

[Helen 28]

If somebody pushed a bag of sweets through your front door every day for a month then at the end of the month demand money for the unwanted sweets you wouldn't be too impressed.

That's the licence fee in a nutshell.

Unless you never watch or record anything live on any device you have to pay for the BBC if you only watch or record one live broadcast a year.

The days of a state broadcaster are coming to an end.

I hardly ever watch BBC as it seems to be full of endless cooking shows full of mindless so-called celebrities making a cake. I have never ever watched a cooking programme as I find them utterly boring.

[arista]

Originally Posted by smudgie

I am quite happy to pay the license fee..lovely to watch a programme without adverts.

The adverts would be before and after
a show so "For Example"


Robert Dyas sponsers Eastenders
before it starts


So not a major problem for you

[T*]

Good- Honestly i do not care if i have adverts or not, just stop the stupid ****!
(and spend more money on eurovision)

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

TV is going in the direction of "on demand" now though, most broadcast television will be a thing of the past soon enough. Services like Netflix are now making their own original shows that are of brilliant quality, available more conveniently whenever you want to watch them, and are not interrupted with ads.

I know you pay a subscription fee for services like that, too... But for one, they are cheaper than the license fee, and for two, the point is that you have a choice. You can subscribe to services that have things that you want, or nothing at all. If you stop paying, you lose the service. You aren't hounded and made to feel like a criminal.

I can't see an end to scheduled programmes, ever.

If you don't pay your licence fee, you are a criminal. The licence isn't just to watch the BBC, it's a licence to watch all broadcast TV through any device, including computers.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Livia

I can't see an end to scheduled programmes, ever.

Yes but you just can't see it because you're getting on a bit, Livia. It's already happening. I'm not saying there won't be live broadcasts, but those will be via specialised streaming services, e.g. I would imagine that news broadcasting will all be in 24 hour format and available on the various news provider websites. Sports broadcasting may go the same way - with (for example) Manchester United's site streaming Manchester United games, either with a fee-per-game / fee-per-season structure, or taking sponsorship.

As for pre-recorded programmes, it will all be on-demand. For example, the excellent House Of Cards season 3 goes live on Netflix this Friday - the quality of that show (in both acting and production) surpasses most network television by quite some margin. All decent scripted drama will go that way in the relatively close future. The days of a "Doctor Who in the living room on a regular Saturday Night slot" are numbered. There's a reason that US networks have started taking DVR / Streaming figures into account when looking at shows' ratings to see if they're viable, and that's because "live viewing" figures are absolutely plummeting for everything except reality TV.

IMO, when broadcast television starts to be scrapped, reality shows will just go the same way as the above - "The X Factor" (etc.) will have their own site / SmartTV app that you fire up at a certain time for the live shows, and all of the pre-recorded early weeks stuff will just be standard on-demand. Same for things like Big Bro - daily episodes on demand, evictions and final streamed.

To be honest all that needs to catch up at this point is the network infrastructure. All of the other technology is firmly in place.

If you don't pay your licence fee, you are a criminal. The licence isn't just to watch the BBC, it's a licence to watch all broadcast TV through any device, including computers.

Errrr... no, not to point out the obvious but you are only a criminal if you watch or record live broadcast TV and don't pay your license fee. You are not a criminal just for "not paying for one". Yes, that includes streaming live shows on a computer or recording them, but no, it does NOT include watching on demand / catch up services, including BBC iPlayer.

I still pay mine because of my sad Reality TV addiction - I still like X Factor / Big Brother and I like to record the live shows on FreeSky+ (god knows I can't remember the last time I actually watched anything live - but like I said, I am aware that the fee is required even for recording from live). I have (heavily) flirted with the idea of getting rid of my license and not watching or recording live broadcasts. Other than reality crap, the only other shows I record are Neighbours and EastEnders, both of which are available from Demand5 and iPlayer respectively. Really, the only reason I keep live TV is because things like Big Brother evictions and X Factor live shows are never on catch-up until the next day and it becomes impossible to avoid spoilers. I watch literally NOTHING live. The rest of the shows we watch are all streamed. If it wasn't for reality stuff I wouldn't be paying my license fee, I would still be watching many TV shows, and I would 100% not be a criminal.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

In defence of the House of Lords, it's not like they sit quaffing champagne all day. A lot of it will be used for entertaining business leaders, foreign dignitaries, even constituents. The waste I was referring to is, for instance, the Ministry of Defence. Run by civilians with no clue how the armed forces work, they waste enough money every year to hire and equip an extra regiment. This at the same time they're cutting the forces to the bone while committing them to cover more areas. B*stards...

Off topic, but I was on a roll...

Don't we have ELECTED representatives to do this?...

[JoshBB]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Don't we have ELECTED representatives to do this?...

/shade

but seriously how on earth can we call ourselves a democratic country when all laws are passed on to an unelected body that can change them as they wish and refuse to pass any they don't like

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by smudgie

I am quite happy to pay the license fee..lovely to watch a programme without adverts.

Exactly


I’m all for keeping the licencing fee and I’ll explain why. In America where there is no licencing fee, watching life television is impossible because you get 5 minutes viewing content before five minutes of adverts. An hours documentary becomes a two hour documentary because of the constant lengthy interruptions. The BBC give us content without the interruption of advertising and so has to pull in revenue for doing so. I believe if we lost the BBC to advertising then British TV would be broadcast the same way as American tv is which would be long played out content with a lot more advertising noise breaking it up.

The BBC is harnessing the amount of advertizing presently viewed on other channels.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Livia

I can't see an end to scheduled programmes, ever.

If you don't pay your licence fee, you are a criminal. The licence isn't just to watch the BBC, it's a licence to watch all broadcast TV through any device, including computers.

I still think it is time the universal licence fee was gone and other things set in place all geared to choice rather than force.

The thing is the BBC is told to clean up waste or lose the licence fee, I am really now hoping the BBC doesn't clear up waste and that it is lost.
It is also time,in my view, as some Conservatives believe and tried to do too,that not paying the licence fee be decriminalised,that would be another start to ensuring the end of it.

I wonder why no party seems to dare say it will get rid of it,could it be that they suspect the new 'freed up' BBC would go for that party with some gusto if any of them did.
I am just stunned we still have this antiquated thing still in place, it should have been gone years ago for me.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I still think it is time the universal licence fee was gone and other things set in place all geared to choice rather than force.

The thing is the BBC is told to clean up waste or lose the licence fee, I am really now hoping the BBC doesn't clear up waste and that it is lost.
It is also time,in my view, as some Conservatives believe and tried to do too,that not paying the licence fee be decriminalised,that would be another start to ensuring the end of it.

I wonder why no party seems to dare say it will get rid of it,could it be that they suspect the new 'freed up' BBC would go for that party with some gusto if any of them did.
I am just stunned we still have this antiquated thing still in place, it should have been gone years ago for me.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Don't we have ELECTED representatives to do this?...

Yes thats why it Took getting No good
getting rid of New Labour
so the Conservatives can do this

[smudgie]

Originally Posted by arista

The adverts would be before and after
a show so "For Example"


Robert Dyas sponsers Eastenders
before it starts


So not a major problem for you

That will do nicely then.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by arista

Yes thats why it Took getting No good
getting rid of New Labour
so the Conservatives can do this

To be fair in all parties there are those who think the Licence needs to be looked at and several who think it should be gone.
I know Conservative, Labour and Lib Dem MPs who would like to see the licence scrapped completely.

It needs however a party to be brave enough to say enough is enough and make it policy to get rid of it, better still for all the parties to agree it is time to get rid of it and then no single party can be blamed for the loss of it to the BBC.

One things for sure, in my view anyway, is that whatever party does one day say they will get rid of this thing, the votes would likely pile in for that party.

At the £145+ it is,that would be a great benefit to everyone but particularly to those at the lowest end of things.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by arista

Yes thats why it Took getting No good
getting rid of New Labour
so the Conservatives can do this

If the conservatives get rid of the lords I will pledge my undying allegiance to them, become a royalist and a christian too