[Livia]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I didn't even realise it was you, I don't think it should be a valid excuse for bigotry no. And it was gifs not emoticons.

I'm the only one who made the comment it is a generational thing. And it is. A lot of older people think differently about race because it's how they were brought up and the way society was. I'm not saying it's right. I would never say it's right.

And it was emoticons.

Originally Posted by Kizzy

This is serious debates hard to take you serious expressing yourself via emoticons..........

I'm happy for us to ignore each other. It would make both our experiences a whole lot better.

[Kizzy]

I read it but didn't realise it was you in all seriousness.
I wonder who I was speaking to there? No, it wouldn't make my experience better, being able to comment without your provisos would.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Sean Connery and George Lazenby weren't English, the latter wasn't even British. I don't think Nationality or appearance matters too much as long as you can pull off the Bond charm and personality and I think Idris Elba could definitely do that.

Pierce Brosnan is Irish as well so that 3 non English and 2 non British Bonds

[Daniel-X]

Idris Elba is a fine actor. One of the best in English television at the moment. However, I can't really imagine him portraying Bond I think Colin Salmon who was previously mentioned would be more suited to the role.

[lostalex]

how are they going to explain bond being black? maybe it could work if they explain it in the story, like maybe it's some type of disguise, or dye his skin to go under cover. like in dr. who they have an explanation why the doctor changes so much.

but if they just want us to pretend that it's no big deal that james bond is a totally different race without explaining it at all, that would be retarded.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by lostalex

how are they going to explain bond being black? maybe it could work if they explain it in the story, like maybe it's some type of disguise, or dye his skin to go under cover.

but if they just want us to pretend that it's no big deal that james bond is a totally different race without explaining it at all, that would be retarded.

It's no different to the fact he went from a dark haired ageing man in the 1960s in the earlier films to a blonde haired 40 something in the 21st century.

Every time a new actor has taken over it's felt more like a reboot.

There is no actual rational continuity between the Bond's. It's all nonsense.

[MTVN]

^ Exactly, the films are already almost their own entity independent of the books

[Suze]

Bond can be any colour of the rainbow for all I care, as long as he has the Bond charisma/charm about him, which for me Daniel Craig lacks. Worst Bond so far for me.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I detest all those ridiculous 'classical' paintings by early artists which depict Jesus as a Ginger haired white man for the same reason.

Should Keanu Reeves have played 'Shaft'? Or Robert Redford played Virgil Tibbs in 'The Heat of The Night'? How ridiculous would it have been for Daniel Radcliffe to have played Martin Luther King instead of David Oyelowo in 'Selma'?

Surely they're entirely separate issues though? That includes real people and race centred storylines.

Of course a white guy can't play MLK because he was a real person and was black.
The same as a white actor couldn't play Tibbs because as far as I remember, the story relied on him being black?

Whereas Bond is a fictional character in a setting/story that does not rely on him being specifically black or white.

Not to mention the films over the last 50 years have strayed so far from the original source material that "stick to the novel" no longer makes sense as a reason.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Surely they're entirely separate issues though? That includes real people and race centred storylines.

Of course a white guy can't play MLK because he was a real person and was black.
The same as a white actor couldn't play Tibbs because as far as I remember, the story relied on him being black?

Whereas Bond is a fictional character in a setting/story that does not rely on him being specifically black or white.

Not to mention the films over the last 50 years have strayed so far from the original source material that "stick to the novel" no longer makes sense as a reason.

so why not make him an 8 year old japanese girl. it makes no difference to you i guess.

so sick of the hypocrisy, the same people screaming about "appropriation of black culture" are the same people screaming "why can't bond be black???"

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by lostalex

so why not make him an 8 year old japanese girl. it makes no difference to you i guess.

so sick of the hypocrisy, the same people screaming about "appropriation of black culture" are the same people screaming "why can't bond be black???"

Nobody's screaming about it. They're simply saying if they wanted to hire Idris Elba there's absolutely no reason why not. Because apart from his skin colour there's next to no difference between him and Daniel Craig.

Your 8 year old Japanese girl comparison is nonsense. Since that would change the character and story completely.

Think logically when trying to put together a counter argument.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Surely they're entirely separate issues though? That includes real people and race centred storylines.

Of course a white guy can't play MLK because he was a real person and was black.
The same as a white actor couldn't play Tibbs because as far as I remember, the story relied on him being black?

Whereas Bond is a fictional character in a setting/story that does not rely on him being specifically black or white.

Not to mention the films over the last 50 years have strayed so far from the original source material that "stick to the novel" no longer makes sense as a reason.

In the TV series Elementary they changed John Watson who originally would have been a white English man to Joan Watson a Chinese-American woman

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

In the TV series Elementary they changed John Watson who originally would have been a white English man to Joan Watson a Chinese-American woman

[Nedusa]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Sean Connery and George Lazenby weren't English, the latter wasn't even British. I don't think Nationality or appearance matters too much as long as you can pull off the Bond charm and personality and I think Idris Elba could definitely do that.

I don't mind who plays James Bond as long as he accurately reflects the character from the Bond novels, ie WASP type.

I don't think a Black African or a Jamaican James Bond was what Ian Fleming had in mind.

Similarly, I dont think David Suchet could have pulled off the Shaft character either.

[Tom4784]

The books have barely anything to do with the films at this point, the cinematic version of James Bond is far removed from the books, it has to be because of all the reboots and changes that have happened over the years. The cinematic Bond is a constantly changing entity that isn't bound by nationality, age and physical features so why should it be bound by race? James Bond being white isn't an integral part of his character or back story.

[GiRTh]

slim build; a three-inch long, thin vertical scar on his right cheek; blue-grey eyes; a "cruel" mouth; short, black hair, a comma of which falls on his forehead

Is how Fleming himself described Bond so I'd say most of the actors who have played Bond have have fallen short in term of appearance. I dont see any problem what so ever with Idris continuing the trend.

[LeatherTrumpet]

Id rather see a female bond

A ravishing blonde slut with torpedo tits, a well turned ankle
And a filthy mouth that would shame a monastry

She also would swing both ways for added love interests

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

I don't mind who plays James Bond as long as he accurately reflects the character from the Bond novels, ie WASP type.

I don't think a Black African or a Jamaican James Bond was what Ian Fleming had in mind.

Similarly, I dont think David Suchet could have pulled off the Shaft character either.

Idris Elba is a Londoner so "African" or "Jamaican" isn't relevant.

[Z]

Originally Posted by lostalex

how are they going to explain bond being black? maybe it could work if they explain it in the story, like maybe it's some type of disguise, or dye his skin to go under cover. like in dr. who they have an explanation why the doctor changes so much.

but if they just want us to pretend that it's no big deal that james bond is a totally different race without explaining it at all, that would be retarded.

Or they could go with the fan theory that 007 James Bond is in fact an identity assumed by the next agent after the previous 007 James Bond dies in action... don't really see the need to make James Bond a different race, but don't care either way.

[Nedusa]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Idris Elba is a Londoner so "African" or "Jamaican" isn't relevant.

It's relevant to my post.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

It's relevant to my post.

Which isn't a relevant counter argument.

As already stated, the Bond films of the last 50 years bear a very small resemblance to the actual written Fleming stuff so why should that suddenly become a reason for Elba to not take on the role?

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Z

Or they could go with the fan theory that 007 James Bond is in fact an identity assumed by the next agent after the previous 007 James Bond dies in action... don't really see the need to make James Bond a different race, but don't care either way.

It doesn't work because in the earlier films, Roger Moore gets revenge on a character for killing his wife in an earlier film (in which he wasn't played by Roger Moore).

However, I guess they could introduce it as the new way of doing things, as "Casino Royale" was a reboot of the franchise, making Daniel Craig the very first version of this "new Bond". They could make it explicitly that this Bond has retired - possibly even with a cameo scene featuring Craig - and now someone else is taking on the 007 title and alias "James Bond".

Would be the best way to have him change race and clear up any problems with future changes too... you could even throw in a female James Bond for a few films...

[Nedusa]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Which isn't a relevant counter argument.

As already stated, the Bond films of the last 50 years bear a very small resemblance to the actual written Fleming stuff so why should that suddenly become a reason for Elba to not take on the role?

I can't believe we are wasting our time on here arguing that's its OK for James Bond a fictional character to be a black man even though if you have read any of the Ian Fleming novels you would see how utterly ridiculous that would be.

LMFTO .....!!!!!

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

I can't believe we are wasting our time on here arguing that's its OK for James Bond a fictional character to be a black man even though if you have read any of the Ian Fleming novels you would see how utterly ridiculous that would be.

LMFTO .....!!!!!

AGAIN, as you seem to be missing the point. NONE of the films, especially in recent years much resemble the Fleming novels.

And the fact you mention him being FICTIONAL supports the fact that the film ADAPTIONS don't have to stick to a specific skin colour.

Does Daniel Craig match the physical description from the novels? No. Case closed.

LMFTO .....!!!!! (Laugh My ****ing Toes Off? )

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

I can't believe we are wasting our time on here arguing that's its OK for James Bond a fictional character to be a black man even though if you have read any of the Ian Fleming novels you would see how utterly ridiculous that would be.

LMFTO .....!!!!!

Why would it be ridiculous given that so many Bonds dont match the Fleming view of the character?