[the truth]

Just wondering on everyones thoughts on this?

this area is staunch labour

now what ive notice lately is a heck fo a lot of young kids between 10 and 18 have incredibly strong views on politics and political parties
the kids im talking about HATE the tories , detest all of them see them as pure evil

the parents hammer this into the kids from very young

labour are the saviour, the only ones that care,....the argument is always , the tories are only for the elite and all their leaders all come from the same priveliged school...they lack any compassion understanding of the real world and are 100% self centred


what worries me most is the argument is totally biased and not a word is said for the counter arguments on any issues....they just see one side ....the next most worrying thing is should all this be laid on young impressionable kids or should they be allowed to have a childhood to actually enjoy the wonder years free from the endless political squabbling? or is that naïve of me, should kids be involved as early as this fighting their political views?

is there a mirror image of this in some richer parts of the country where impressionable kids are raised as pure tory and are indoctrinated in the elitist ideology and don't take into account nor understand at all the other side of the coin for poorer people etc etc

is indoctrinating your kids totally in your political views as bad as other kinds of brainwashing? or is it simply life? just bringing up kids in your own image is perfectly fine and natural?

[Ammi]

..I think truth that it's inevitable that there will be influences in the family home with things like this, the degree of that influence would probably also be how passionate the parent is in how much discussion within the family home etc...


..I guess it's a bit like the thread recently of the mum who would have her children excluded from anything religion based, or is thinking of doing it...personally I don't agree with 'taboos' because they are an extreme and no extreme is good, whatever the intentions...and it's just really hoping that with politics..?..the child has sufficient other balances outside the home before voting age to form their own opinions etc... that's also the good thing about the internet, that there is so much information to access more than ever now...

[the truth]

its a lot of pressure on young people with so much information , so much peer pressure too with the internet and mobile phones filming everything .... allied to all those exams and choosing which uni and which career at the same time...even before you take physical changes and sexual relationships into account.......ive always thought just give your kids guidance , keep them healthy and safe, prepare them for adulthood as best you can etc but also give them every opportunity and let them decide their own opinions and their own careers ...basically let them form their own opinions and make their own choices

I find it sad to see a parents drinking and smoking excessively....then later seeing them with their kids just past 18 doing the exact same thing.....parents must surely be aware how big and influence they have on their kids..but to simply use your kids to regurgitate your own life viewpoint and often unhealthy lifestyle choices seems like indoctrination to me

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by the truth

its a lot of pressure on young people with so much information , so much peer pressure too with the internet and mobile phones filming everything .... allied to all those exams and choosing which uni and which career at the same time...even before you take physical changes and sexual relationships into account.......ive always thought just give your kids guidance , keep them healthy and safe, prepare them for adulthood as best you can etc but also give them every opportunity and let them decide their own opinions and their own careers ...basically let them form their own opinions and make their own choices

I find it sad to see a parents drinking and smoking excessively....then later seeing them with their kids just past 18 doing the exact same thing.....parents must surely be aware how big and influence they have on their kids..but to simply use your kids to regurgitate your own life viewpoint and often unhealthy lifestyle choices seems like indoctrination to me

..yeah I think with the smoking etc or excessive alcohol..?..it can work the other way also in that a child can see 'unhealthy effects' and health issues through their parents and that can decide them against these things for their own lives so there is some balance there..but I agree, it was so much easier back in the day and a lot less pressure I think...so much more difficult and stressful to be younger now...

[Z]

I think it happens anyway in many ways - both subtle and outright. There's not much difference in a parent declaring all Tories to be evil and a parent displaying negative attitudes towards a wealthy elite - one way is direct, the other is indirect, both have the effect of showing an elite in a negative light to an impressionable mind... but in both instances, the way the child handles that experience is dependent entirely on their personality which is made up of so many things... some children would accept those views and take them on as their own either knowingly or unknowingly; others would reject them, keen to do things in direct opposition to how their parents view the world... they might go on to continue in that manner or they might become exactly like their parents after all.

[smudgie]

I think kids are more savvy now.
I came from a very strong labour background, dad was in the Labour Party until the day he died, but I have voted both Labour and Tory.
I must say that the response from both family and friends of family when I voted Tory the first time was very telling.
One woman in particular, had the nerve to tell me I was a disgrace, that Labour was for the working class etc..I simply replied that as her husband had sat on his lazy backside and never worked for decades then it was more of a sham that he voted labour.
My kids are both intelligent enough for me not to sway their thinking, they discuss politics with me just the same as most subjects, we all have our different views, my son voted Tory, my daughter voted Green, hubby never ever discloses who he votes for

[Kizzy]

Primary socialisation is how kids learn and always has been, I think it's as important to raise your children with a healthy amount of skepticism regarding all institutions. And to recognise areas of misinformation, propaganda and plain old prejudice.
Question everything, ignorance is not bliss, no party or organisation is 100% good or 100% bad.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by smudgie

I think kids are more savvy now.
I came from a very strong labour background, dad was in the Labour Party until the day he died, but I have voted both Labour and Tory.
I must say that the response from both family and friends of family when I voted Tory the first time was very telling.
One woman in particular, had the nerve to tell me I was a disgrace, that Labour was for the working class etc..I simply replied that as her husband had sat on his lazy backside and never worked for decades then it was more of a sham that he voted labour.
My kids are both intelligent enough for me not to sway their thinking, they discuss politics with me just the same as most subjects, we all have our different views, my son voted Tory, my daughter voted Green, hubby never ever discloses who he votes for

For your wisdom Smudgie.

[the truth]

smudgie lol your kids are smart enough not to listen to you....wonderfully british self deprecation as always lol

[empire]

here's thing that they are trying to lower the age of voting to 16, too me that is daft, because teachers brainwash their pupils, with there political way of thinking, and I don't think parents should tell there children who to vote for,

[the truth]

16 is way too young to vote imo

[Kizzy]

That's because we continually infantalise our young people, they are not expected to form rational argument until well into their 20s. I don't think this is acceptable.
To accept the mantra that young adults are not capable plays into the hands of the new right perspective and the ideology of conservatism.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

That's because we continually infantalise our young people, they are not expected to form rational argument until well into their 20s. I don't think this is acceptable.
To accept the mantra that young adults are not capable plays into the hands of the new right perspective and the ideology of conservatism.

what a load of nonsense. you even try to politicize , age and childhood, how sad

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by the truth

what a load of nonsense. you even try to politicize , age and childhood, how sad

I stated my opinion, yes I say teach kids about political history so they are informed.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I stated my opinion, yes I say teach kids about political history so they are informed.

Yes New Labour Illegal Invasion of Iraq,
False Statement
that saddam can attack London in 15mins with
a scud.


Saddam was never doing that.


I wonder when you tell things
how much you SKIP over
sadly

[arista]

Originally Posted by the truth

16 is way too young to vote imo

Yes thats why The Conservatives
are not doing it.

Scotland - not the same
as on Freedom - any age feels that


Labour rushed it in
just before this recent Election
thinking it will help them win?

[jennyjuniper]

Isn't political history taught in schools then?

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by arista

Yes thats why The Conservatives
are not doing it.

Scotland - not the same
as on Freedom - any age feels that


Labour rushed it in
just before this recent Election
thinking it will help them win?

I disagree, I think some of the finest reasoning and debating came from the programmes that featured the young in the Scottish referendum on independence.

Myself, I would say it is time to reduce the voting age to 16,however that will have to wait at least another 5 years due to this govts. backward approach.

However, since the EU referendum is likely to be going to be the last ever or certainly for decades to come,as to the issue.
Then I really do think the vote should be given to 16 and 17 years olds for this referendum.
Along with, votes to everyone eligible to vote in a general election in the UK too.

In around 2 years, people aged 16 and 17, will be able to vote in the next general election after this referendum is expected to be given to the UK.
It is a massive decision and this govt. will be accused,rightly, of trying to engineer a result of the referendum, if it denies them the vote, after allowing 16 and 17 year old Scots to vote in the independence referendum.

I am fairly confident, if when this comes to parliament for the vote,if the govt. is denying the vote to those aged 16 and 17 in the referendum, that Labour will put forward an amendment to that effect and I expect a good few Conservative MPs to back that position too.
Along with all the other parties in the House of Commons too.

[lostalex]

I don't think it's parents that are hammering their views into kids more, i think it's the media that has become more politicized. I think 20 years ago the media really tried to be as neutral as possible, but now every media outlet is much more politicized and has no shame about admitting which side they lean towards.

I think kids have always been exposed to very biased parents, and usually kids just ignore their parents, but the media is so politicized now, including entertainment shows, and musicians, and movies, that kids are being exposed to more politicized views at an earlier age.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Primary socialisation is how kids learn and always has been, I think it's as important to raise your children with a healthy amount of skepticism regarding all institutions. And to recognise areas of misinformation, propaganda and plain old prejudice.
Question everything, ignorance is not bliss, no party or organisation is 100% good or 100% bad.

yea, but it's about who they are taught has the real power, and who you should be questioning is drastically different on both sides of the political spectrum.

Right wing parents will tell their kids that the media and arts have all the power and they are left wing, so you should always question the media and their left wing bias, while left wing parents will tell their kids that the church has all the power and you should always question the teachings of the church.

SO either way, the parents of both sides are teaching them to be skeptical, but it's what they are teaching you to be skeptical about that makes a difference.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by arista

Yes New Labour Illegal Invasion of Iraq,
False Statement
that saddam can attack London in 15mins with
a scud.


Saddam was never doing that.


I wonder when you tell things
how much you SKIP over
sadly

I skipped over the thatcher years for you, what do you want blood?...

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by jennyjuniper

Isn't political history taught in schools then?

No, and Alan Johnson sought to take 'Animal farm' and 'A brave new world' from the curriculum too... Too close to the truth.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by lostalex

I don't think it's parents that are hammering their views into kids more, i think it's the media that has become more politicized. I think 20 years ago the media really tried to be as neutral as possible, but now every media outlet is much more politicized and has no shame about admitting which side they lean towards.

I think kids have always been exposed to very biased parents, and usually kids just ignore their parents, but the media is so politicized now, including entertainment shows, and musicians, and movies, that kids are being exposed to more politicized views at an earlier age.

Do you know the history of our 'Daily Mail' ?
I do agree our media is hugely influential though, and kids don't take as much notice of parents for their view of the world as they do the media today.
Televised political propaganda is almost at a subconscious level of influence, poverty porn for instance is a great example.
The way news is reported ... or not reported at all. It's all geared towards keeping the young in a subdued and subservient collective mindset.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by lostalex

yea, but it's about who they are taught has the real power, and who you should be questioning is drastically different on both sides of the political spectrum.

Right wing parents will tell their kids that the media and arts have all the power and they are left wing, so you should always question the media and their left wing bias, while left wing parents will tell their kids that the church has all the power and you should always question the teachings of the church.

SO either way, the parents of both sides are teaching them to be skeptical, but it's what they are teaching you to be skeptical about that makes a difference.

The establishment has the power, they are using more corrupt and deviant methods of ensuring this from surveillance to misinformation to media blackouts of dissenters and any nonconformity is suitably kettled.

Here right winged people love culture and the arts... tell them the writer was a drug user and the artist gay and they would politely laugh and suggest you're wrong, but there it is.
The left I wouldn't say were any less committed to faith but accept that the church as an institution has it's flaws and exists to some extent as a tool of social control (I only say this due to the advocation of the KJV by Cameron)
Religion should be kept well out of politics.

I personally feel right winged people are more inclined to have faith in the system and accepting of the status quo, the left a little cautious or the reasoning behind decisions..That may be a generational or geographical decision it's hard to say.

Young people start out as a rule quite liberal, as they earn and amass possessions and offspring they gravitate right... it's a shift that's quite normal and has always happened regardless of parental influence seemingly.

[bitontheslide]

16-18 is the age at which young adults are finishing or have finished their education, so of course they are capable of voting. At 16, you can get married, have a family, pay rent, poll tax, electricity and all the other fine things. They therefore have an equal right to determine the future of the country. It shouldn't really even be being debated, it should be a reality.