[Dollface]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

He should NOT be flying,WHO in their right mind would do such a terrible thing? what if there was to be a constantly crying baby on one of his flights? I'm sick of the "It's only a dog" attitude,a dog can be part of your family and does not understand some humans don't like them barking! bet he wouldn't have done it to a sturdy Rottweiler,bastard.

This.

[Lostie!]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I love dogs but I have to be totally honest here and say that I think that people can be totally over the top with sentiment when it comes to pets. The man clearly has some sort of anger issues and snapped - and of course that shouldn't slide, it should be addressed - but I'm sorry, it doesn't make him a monster and it doesn't make his actions unfathomable. If the noise really was that incessant, and he was suffering from some other sort of stress at the time... People snap. They just do. And - to be blunt - a dog is not a human. It doesn't mean he would have or could have harmed a human. Most people are instinctively driven to not harm other humans for petty reasons like this but the same simply does not apply to an animal.

I'm not sure that I agree that he should be psychiatrically cleared so soon as like I said there is clearly some sort of control issue and he should be receiving mandatory treatment for that. But jail...? Not so sure it's appropriate.

Also - I'm going to come right out and say it - if the dog was Barking enough and for such a prolonged period of time that it drove someone to drown it, then it was being neglected by its owners. There's no two ways about it. And there isn't really any excuse for it either. Their beloved dog that made them feel so connected to their late daughter that they left it distressed and barking for hours on end? Hmmmmm OK then.

Some people (myself being one of them) are just very fond of and feel very affectionate towards animals, it's not really fair to brand that "over the top" just because you happen to not feel that way.

As for "a dog is not human", we're all very aware. How that makes drowning it any less reprehensible is beyond me.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Do agree with a lot of what TS is saying (particularly in how people can get more emotional over a pet than a fellow human), but I do think it takes a certain sort of person to physically hold a dog's dead under water until it drowns and then make concerted efforts going to great lengths to cover his tracks. That takes it beyond a mere moment of madness imo. I'm not sure prison would be that inappropriate, he probably wouldn't be surrounded by violent criminals in a maximum security unit for something like this. But a few months in an open prison would be a fair sentence and might even do him some good.

Acute transient psychotic episodes (colloquially, "rage blackouts") are actually more common than you would think under certain conditions and can be triggered specifically by things like repeated irritating noise, because the noise repeatedly interrupts normal thought process and doesn't give the mind time to rationalise. It's often compounded by things like drawn out periods of stress / lack of sleep, etc.

Not so common for them to result in something so drastically violent but it doesn't necessarily say anything at all about the "sort of person" involved.

As for the cover-up, I would call that entirely natural and actually psychologically positive. It means that in all likelihood he instantly realised what he had done and how awful it was, so set about covering it up. The truth is, the vast majority of people would do just that if they realised they had done something shameful like that. A lot of people would do it even if what had happened was an accident like hitting a pet with a car, even people who would insist before the fact "Oh I definitely wouldn't I would find the owners and tell them!". Guilt is a strange and unpredictable motivator.

It would be much MORE worrying if he had started bellowing over the fence at the house about what he had done, or simply left the dog there and gone on about his day. That would, for me, demonstrate that he didn't understand at all the gravity of his actions. He didn't do a very good job of covering it up at all, which suggests a panic after it was already done rather than any premeditated action.

I guess it sounds like I'm trying to make excuses... I'm not, I think he definitely needs help on some level. I just, as always, don't believe in "folks who are just plain evil" and think it's important to understand why things like this happen in the first place rather than simply wringing hands in the aftermath.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I agree but I already said as much as part of my first post on this

I never said you didn't...I just wondered why you focused on the effects of prison when replying to my quote :/

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Dollface

If you really feel that it's his actions weren't unfathomable then you don't "love dogs". A dog's life is just as important as a humans life, to me anyway.

I think i'm gonna have to stay away from this thread lol because it's actually pissing me off.

If you in all absolute seriousness would, in a hypothetical situation, trade the life of a human child (even on that you don't personally know) for your own dog, then you are either a liar or a sociopath.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

arista,there were other options,C'mon,really? I agree about the owners,but,to DROWN it and the cut it open to get the microchip out? that's somebody bloody calculated not stressed.

If it was calculated they wouldn't have found it in his house. They would have never found it at all.

[Lostie!]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

If you in all absolute seriousness would, in a hypothetical situation, trade the life of a human child (even on that you don't personally know) for your own dog, then you are either a liar or a sociopath.

Where did she say anything of the sort?

She said a dog's life is just as important to her as a human's. Where is this nonsense about trading a human child for a dog coming from? Maybe stick to what people are actually saying instead of utterly twisting their words.

[Dollface]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

If you in all absolute seriousness would, in a hypothetical situation, trade the life of a human child (even on that you don't personally know) for your own dog, then you are either a liar or a sociopath.

A child? I honestly couldn't answer that. Don't think I could live with myself if i was the reason a child lost it's life, but equally i couldn't live with myself if i'd let my dog die.

I'd trade the life of a human adult (that i don't personally know) though. I'm certainly not a liar so if that makes me a sociopath then i'd happily take that label

Upon reflection, said human adult could be a mother or a father, don't think i could do that to someones family. I don't really know where your question came from but i can't give a proper answer because i've never been in a situation where i've had to choose (nor do i ever want to be), so i don't know what i'd do, i'd probably kill myself so i didn't have to make the decision.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

arista,there were other options,C'mon,really? I agree about the owners,but,to DROWN it and the cut it open to get the microchip out? that's somebody bloody calculated not stressed.

Of Course


But a non stop barking dog
left to bark
made the next door man Snap.



Ammi
just told me it was for a Disabled Girl
as if that makes any change
to the dogs non stop barking

[Dollface]

Originally Posted by Lostie!

Where did she say anything of the sort?

She said a dog's life is just as important to her as a human's. Where is this nonsense about trading a human child for a dog coming from? Maybe stick to what people are actually saying instead of utterly twisting their words.

I didn't even notice that, where the hell did that question even come from lmao.

I'll happily answer it though, i don't care if i look like a "sociopath". My dogs are my family.

[Lostie!]

Originally Posted by Dollface

A child? I honestly couldn't answer that. Don't think I could live with myself if i was the reason a child lost it's life, but equally i couldn't live with myself if i'd let my dog die.

I'd trade the life of a human adult (that i don't personally know) though. I'm certainly not a liar so if that makes me a sociopath then i'd happily take that label

Drowning a dog is more likely to be sociopathic than loving one, let's be honest here.

And hypothetically prioritising a pet you love and care for over an adult human stranger isn't strange at all, I'd wager that the majority of pet owners would say the same. Well, the ones who truly care for their pets and class them as family, anyway.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Dollface

A child? I honestly couldn't answer that. Don't think I could live with myself if i was the reason a child lost it's life, but equally i couldn't live with myself if i'd let my dog die.

I'd trade the life of a human adult (that i don't personally know) though. I'm certainly not a liar so if that makes me a sociopath then i'd happily take that label

What happens when is does die as
normal life of the dog?

[Lostie!]

Originally Posted by Dollface

I didn't even notice that, where the hell did that question even come from lmao.

I'll happily answer it though, i don't care if i look like a "sociopath". My dogs are my family.

It happens quite frequently in animal debates, people like to pluck non-existent quotes out of mid-air and suggest that animal lovers have no regard for human life at all, despite nothing of the sort being suggested.

[Dollface]

Originally Posted by arista

What happens when is does die as
normal life of the dog?

I will grieve the loss of my dog?

[Dollface]

Originally Posted by Lostie!

It happens quite frequently in animal debates, people like to pluck non-existent quotes out of mid-air and suggest that animal lovers have no regard for human life at all, despite nothing of the sort being suggested.

Yeah, it's ridiculous though because that type of question can't really be answered.
I don't know what i'd do in that situation so tbh it's all just guessing.

[bitontheslide]

Sadly, killing pets, particularly dogs is a pretty common occurrence both here and abroad. The usual method is poisoning, something that happened to one of my dogs once, and she didn't bark at all. I think there are just some very cruel and nasty people around.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Lostie!

Where did she say anything of the sort?

She said a dog's life is just as important to her as a human's. Where is this nonsense about trading a human child for a dog coming from? Maybe stick to what people are actually saying instead of utterly twisting their words.

A dog's life is not "just as important" as a human life and no one would realistically trade a dog's life for a human's. Someone might - if they were being massively selfish - trade an unknown human life for their own beloved pet but no one, literally no one, in their right mind would see an unknown dog and an unknown human about to die and choose to save the dog. Because a dog's life is less important. People don't like admitting that because they are sentimental. People are more upset by stories about dogs in the press than stories about people for the same reason.

And likewise, apparently, people would like to paint someone who killed a dog in a moment of rage out to be evil and unthinkable beasts because. That's why it's relevant. People's ideas about what the appropiate response in this case is are wildly distorted.

No one gives a **** when an exterminator sets traps to kill rats that have "invaded their home", because in their bubble "rats are a pest" and what do you do with pests? Kill 'em! Not a second thought. Rats are just as intelligent as dogs. Are their lives worth less than a dog's? Why is it OK to kill a rat that's annoying you but not a dog that's annoying you? And then why not a human that's annoying you? Becaaauuuse....

Some lives are worth more than others. There's no other explanation.

[Dollface]

Originally Posted by Lostie!

Drowning a dog is more likely to be sociopathic than loving one, let's be honest here.

And hypothetically prioritising a pet you love and care for over an adult human stranger isn't strange at all, I'd wager that the majority of pet owners would say the same. Well, the ones who truly care for their pets and class them as family, anyway.

Oh no apparently the man just snapped

[Dollface]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

A dog's life is not "just as important" as a human life and no one would realistically trade a dog's life for a human's. Someone might - if they were being massively selfish - trade an unknown human life for their own beloved pet but no one, literally no one, in their right mind would see an unknown dog and an unknown human about to die and choose to save the dog. Because a dog's life is less important. People don't like admitting that because they are sentimental. People are more upset by stories about dogs in the press than stories about people for the same reason.

And likewise, apparently, people would like to paint someone who killed a dog in a moment of rage out to be evil and unthinkable beasts because. That's why it's relevant. People's ideas about what the appropiate response in this case is are wildly distorted.

No one gives a **** when an exterminator sets traps to kill rats that have "invaded their home", because in their bubble "rats are a pest" and what do you do with pests? Kill 'em! Not a second thought. Rats are just as intelligent as dogs. Are their lives worth less than a dog's? Why is it OK to kill a rat that's annoying you but not a dog that's annoying you? And then why not a human that's annoying you? Becaaauuuse....

Some lives are worth more than others. There's no other explanation.

Funny you bring up rats because I have 2 (about to be 3) of them. I hate the fact people kill them because they are "pests", it is not ok.

Yep some lives are worth more than others. My innocent, loving dogs and rats lives are worth a lot more than some humans lives. A good example would be this here man that killed Meg the dog, his life is worth no where near as much as my dogs and rats lives are worth.

[Kizzy]

What's with all the bizarre hypotheticals? :/

This was just some bloke who as he stated in a moment of madness snapped and killed a dog then dug about in it's flesh for a chip so he could dispose of it without detection.

How anyone here feels about their pets is entirely irrelevant.

[Dollface]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

What's with all the bizarre hypotheticals? :/

This was just some bloke who as he stated in a moment of madness snapped and killed a dog then dug about in it's flesh for a chip so he could dispose of it without detection.

How anyone here feels about their pets is entirely irrelevant.

While i agree that the bizarre hypotheticals are unnecessary; the pets thing isn't entirely irrelevant, stories like this make people think about their pets.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Lostie!

Drowning a dog is more likely to be sociopathic than loving one, let's be honest here.

Yes it is. It is however, not more sociopathic than killing a human to save your dog.

And hypothetically prioritising a pet you love and care for over an adult human stranger isn't strange at all, I'd wager that the majority of pet owners would say the same. Well, the ones who truly care for their pets and class them as family, anyway.

The majority of pet owners would probably dramatically declare that they would choose the pet. If actually faced with a situation where it was a genuine choice, the majority wouldn't actually do it.


Here's another scenario, although I'm not sure they're all that helpful:

You're driving through your town. Little bobby, your pet dog who has somehow escaped from home, runs out into the road. In a split second, you realise that if you brake, it'll be too late and you'll still hit the dog. If you swerve, however, you'll hit a pedestrian. Do you brake or swerve? NO ONE would realistically swerve! Anyone who would shouldn't be on the bloody road...

[Lostie!]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

A dog's life is not "just as important" as a human life and no one would realistically trade a dog's life for a human's. Someone might - if they were being massively selfish - trade an unknown human life for their own beloved pet but no one, literally no one, in their right mind would see an unknown dog and an unknown human about to die and choose to save the dog. Because a dog's life is less important. People don't like admitting that because they are sentimental. People are more upset by stories about dogs in the press than stories about people for the same reason.

And likewise, apparently, people would like to paint someone who killed a dog in a moment of rage out to be evil and unthinkable beasts because. That's why it's relevant. People's ideas about what the appropiate response in this case is are wildly distorted.

Couldn't disagree with every word more. That's all that needs to be said, we're never going to agree here.

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

No one gives a **** when an exterminator sets traps to kill rats that have "invaded their home", because in their bubble "rats are a pest" and what do you do with pests? Kill 'em! Not a second thought. Rats are just as intelligent as dogs. Are their lives worth less than a dog's? Why is it OK to kill a rat that's annoying you but not a dog that's annoying you? And then why not a human that's annoying you? Becaaauuuse....

How bizarre, you seem to be wildly making assumptions with zero basis and running with them now. No, I'm not okay with killing rats.

Here's a tip, get the facts before running your mouth and never think you have the authority to speak for me, because you absolutely don't.

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Some lives are worth more than others. There's no other explanation.

So, a human who isn't a good person is worth more than a valued, cherished pet automatically because they're a human? How happy I am that I don't share this mindset.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

What's with all the bizarre hypotheticals? :/

This was just some bloke who as he stated in a moment of madness snapped and killed a dog then dug about in it's flesh for a chip so he could dispose of it without detection.

How anyone here feels about their pets is entirely irrelevant.

It's entirely relevant when people are discussing what the appropriate action to be taken is. People are inflating the severity of the crime because they feel warm and fluffy about puppies.

[Dollface]

Originally Posted by Lostie!

Couldn't disagree with every word more. That's all that needs to be said, we're never going to agree here.

How bizarre, you seem to be wildly making assumptions with zero basis and running with them now. No, I'm not okay with killing rats.

Here's a tip, get the facts before running your mouth and never think you have the authority to speak for me, because you absolutely don't.

So, a human who isn't a good person is worth more than a valued, cherished pet automatically because they're a human? How happy I am that I don't share this mindset.

I couldn't agree more if I tried lmao

TS, arista, etc. I think we're going to just have to agree to disagree.