[Livia]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

You said that £67,000 is a reasonably low salary. You are out of touch with the real working world, whether you realise it or not.

I said it was a reasonably low salary when looked at against comparable careers (including local authority managers) and for the responsibility it involves. Because you think that I'm out of touch doesn't make it true. All you know about me is what you deduce from my posts and everything is open to interpretation. I know who I am and I know what I am and your judgement means nothing to me.

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Oh and also, the suggestion that people who aren't on higher salaries haven't worked as hard. Meh.

I was speaking personally, saying that of all the choices I had when I left uni, being a politician didn't even make the shortlist. Nowhere did I suggest that people who aren't on higher salaries haven't worked hard. We all make choices, I don't judge people on what they earn. My father was on sh1t pay driving an emergency ambulance and he is my greatest hero.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Cherie

A lot of people work hard not everyone is academic thats the difference, just because someone works in a low paid job doesn't mean they don't give it their all, public sector are on a pay freeze why does that not apply to MPs?

I think I've covered this in the post above.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Just said as much, this idea that if you don't earn 100k you are not working hard ..what on earth

I didn't say that. At all.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Livia

It's still not what a middle manager in the City would make. If we don't want rich people who are independently wealthy dominating the House of Commons, we have to pay them a salary commensurate with the responsibility they have to encourage people with good degrees to look on it as a good career choice.

On this issue, I am firmly with you Livia.
As I stated earlier, I agree with this rise.

[Toy Soldier]

I can only reiterate that if someone creates their shortlist based predominantly on potential earnings, then they have a mercenary approach to careers.

That's not necessarily a bad thing; there's nothing wrong with having a goal of high earnings and the associated lifestyle. It however has absolutely no place in a political career and someone whose motivation is the numbers on their paycheque, will make a horrendous politician.

I'm not saying that they should get a pittance, I'm saying that if the salary is good enough to live a decent life (and one would assume that it is, given that it's TRIPLE what the govt. insists a family of 4 can live on) then it shouldn't be off putting for the sort of person who SHOULD be a politician - I.e. Someone so passionate about their politics that other careers aren't even on the radar.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I can only reiterate that if someone creates their shortlist based predominantly on potential earnings, then they have a mercenary approach to careers.
That's not necessarily a bad thing; there's nothing wrong with having a goal of high earnings and the associated lifestyle. It however has absolutely no place in a political career and someone whose motivation is the numbers on their paycheque, will make a horrendous politician.

I'm not saying that they should get a pittance, I'm saying that if the salary is good enough to live a decent life (and one would assume that it is, given that it's TRIPLE what the govt. insists a family of 4 can live on) then it shouldn't be off putting for the sort of person who SHOULD be a politician - I.e. Someone so passionate about their politics that other careers aren't even on the radar.

The shortlist I referred to wasn't based purely on finance it was based on a number of factors including responsibility, progression and job security. I find your criticism a little mercenary.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I agree and this rise is linked to a loss of certain expenses and also payments after leaving parliament too.
10% in one go does sound steep but this is independently arrived at and is after several years too.

Originally Posted by joeysteele

On this issue, I am firmly with you Livia.
As I stated earlier, I agree with this rise.

Thank you, Joey. It's inevitable that there would be a knee-jerk public reaction to this, and it's good to see your post knowing that you understand the background.

[MTVN]

+1 to Livia's posts

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Livia

The shortlist I referred to wasn't based purely on finance it was based on a number of factors including responsibility, progression and job security. I find your criticism a little mercenary.

I'm not entirely sure you understand what I mean by mercenary... I'm 99% sure I'm not getting paid for this.

Or AM I....

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I'm not entirely sure you understand what I mean by mercenary... I'm 99% sure I'm not getting paid for this.

Or AM I....

Please exchange the word 'mercenary' for 'personal'

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Livia

Please exchange the word 'mercenary' for 'personal'

It's not personal, you don't want to be a politician... There's nothing wrong with making education and career choices based on personal advancement. In fact it's quite sensible. I wish I'd been as sensible when I was at University, I managed to take effortlessly near-perfect school grades and a list of unconditional Uni acceptances and turn them into a big steaming pile of **** all. It was stupid. I love money! And I will unashamedly say that I am more than open to any career progression that gets me more money, responsibility and scope for further progression as you say. For most people, this is undoubtedly the sane way to go.

But it (a focus on personal advancement and financial gain) is still surely not what anyone wants or needs in a politician. The lure should not be the salary, it should be a genuine desire to improve the country and help people. For the record, I would also make a crap politician.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

It's not personal, you don't want to be a politician... There's nothing wrong with making education and career choices based on personal advancement. In fact it's quite sensible. I wish I'd been as sensible when I was at University, I managed to take effortlessly near-perfect school grades and a list of unconditional Uni acceptances and turn them into a big steaming pile of **** all. It was stupid. I love money! And I will unashamedly say that I am more than open to any career progression that gets me more money, responsibility and scope for further progression as you say. For most people, this is undoubtedly the sane way to go.

But it (a focus on personal advancement and financial gain) is still surely not what anyone wants or needs in a politician. The lure should not be the salary, it should be a genuine desire to improve the country and help people. For the record, I would also make a crap politician.

Do you think that's how it works now? All those people in Parliament are answering a calling to enter politics and serve their community? No. In a perfect world politics would be a kind of vocation, like nursing; which is why, I suppose, nurses are not paid what they're worth. I don't see a time when politicians do the job just for the love of it. So whatever it takes to get more working class people who've struggled to get a good degree to consider entering politics, the better I will like it.

[Toy Soldier]

No I don't think it's how it works now, but I think UK politics is an absolute shambles. To the point that it would be hilarious, if it wasn't simultaneously depressing.

People with good degrees not being attracted by high salaries is not the reason for there being too few working class people in politics. There are huge obstacles including the (understandable) lack of interest in domestic politics for working class people growing up, the hurdle for working class people of attaining a good degree from a good university in the first place, the lack of buddies already involved in politics to give them that "in"...

Attractive salaries may be a small factor but it's hardly the kicker.

[lostalex]

so they are reducing their pensions and increasing their salaries... so basically they are getting money that they would have been getting in their pensions, but sooner. i bet many people wish they could get this deal. wouldn't everyone like to increase their yearly salary instead of having to wait for the money in their pensions?

What a scam.

[smudgie]

Not sure about needing a degree to be an MP, for me the best ones are the ones that have worked their way up so to speak.
Now if you pay peanuts then only well off people would be able to do the job, I want more grass root politicians that are working for the people they represent because they have the fire in their belly, the only thing I would like to see changed is that the MP should be born and bred local to whom/where they represent.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by smudgie

Not sure about needing a degree to be an MP, for me the best ones are the ones that have worked their way up so to speak.
Now if you pay peanuts then only well off people would be able to do the job, I want more grass root politicians that are working for the people they represent because they have the fire in their belly, the only thing I would like to see changed is that the MP should be born and bred local to whom/where they represent.

You're right Smudgie, of course you don't need a degree to be an MP. But if you have one when you go for selection with your chosen party then your qualifications and experience will count for you, like in any job.

My local MP wasn't born in this area, neither was I for that matter. But he's lived here for twenty years, has a young family who attend local schools and he's very much involved. So while I don't necessarily agree that they should be born and bred in an area, I do think they should be connected and engaged with their local area and be able to demonstrate that at selection instead of someone who's well-connected in the party being flown in from God knows where to take a safe seat.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by lostalex

so they are reducing their pensions and increasing their salaries... so basically they are getting money that they would have been getting in their pensions, but sooner. i bet many people wish they could get this deal. wouldn't everyone like to increase their yearly salary instead of having to wait for the money in their pensions?

What a scam.

Hmmm.. seems a little short-sighted to me.

Hey Alex, nice to see you.

[smudgie]

Originally Posted by Livia

You're right Smudgie, of course you don't need a degree to be an MP. But if you have one when you go for selection with your chosen party then your qualifications and experience will count for you, like in any job.

My local MP wasn't born in this area, neither was I for that matter. But he's lived here for twenty years, has a young family who attend local schools and he's very much involved. So while I don't necessarily agree that they should be born and bred in an area, I do think they should be connected and engaged with their local area and be able to demonstrate that at selection instead of someone who's well-connected in the party being flown in from God knows where to take a safe seat.

Yes, I agree with not being born and bred..might be a step too far.
Living in the area and knowing the people and their needs will do nicely.
Livia, you always manage to put my thoughts down far better than I ever could

[Livia]

Originally Posted by smudgie

Yes, I agree with not being born and bred..might be a step too far.
Living in the area and knowing the people and their needs will do nicely.
Livia, you always manage to put my thoughts down far better than I ever could

Awww thanks Smudgie. If only I was half as good at everything else as I am at waffling!

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by smudgie

Yes, I agree with not being born and bred..might be a step too far.
Living in the area and knowing the people and their needs will do nicely.
Livia, you always manage to put my thoughts down far better than I ever could

She is great isn't she Smudgie, I love Livia, she almost has your real thinking down even before you have thought it.

I also agree an MP should settle in the constituency they may come to win, candidates do have to move about initially in order to achieve success in politics, as long as they take on the constituency afterwards and dedicate themselves to it once elected,I see no wrong in that really.

I hope to go into politics depending where things are nearer 2020,I will happily stand in any constituency to hopefully achieve that aim.
I would however make any constituency I may win,if I ever did,my home one and be dedicated to the needs of that constituency and all the people in it too.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

[/B]


She is great isn't she Smudgie, I love Livia, she almost has your real thinking down even before you have thought it.

I also agree an MP should settle in the constituency they may come to win, candidates do have to move about initially in order to achieve success in politics, as long as they take on the constituency afterwards and dedicate themselves to it once elected,I see no wrong in that really.

I hope to go into politics depending where things are nearer 2020,I will happily stand in any constituency to hopefully achieve that aim.
I would however make any constituency I may win,if I ever did,my home one and be dedicated to the needs of that constituency and all the people in it too.

I would vote for you joeysteele, even if your rosette's the wrong colour x

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Livia

I would vote for you joeysteele, even if your rosette's the wrong colour x

One day I may be calling that in Livia,one never knows.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

One day I may be calling that in Livia,one never knows.

I told you, when you stand for Parliament, if you're looking for an election agent I will do it free of charge. I've never lost one yet!

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Livia

I told you, when you stand for Parliament, if you're looking for an election agent I will do it free of charge. I've never lost one yet!

I know you have, I have never forgotten that kind offer,it is embedded in my memory.

[Toy Soldier]

Joey, when you become PM I reckon you should choose TiBB members as all of your ministers. It could be great. You could even scrap the physical commons and just have a forum. ThisIsWestminster.com?