[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Merry Kizzmas

That is an oversimplification, in this instance we do know exactly where it came from and how.
This man exploited both people and resources, this is what is being considered, does the end justify the means?
If there is an expense to an ethical dilemma then that will have to be addressed if the situation is resolved to remove the image.

The horrible 'Filthy Rich' monsters which are the entire Tory Party, the Land Grabbing Working Class exploiting Aristocracy, and a whole plethora of greedy exploitive Corporations who make huge profits from the merchandise produced by badly paid workers in 'Third World Sweatshops' - ALL pay taxes and have done since before you were born.

Give me one example of ANYONE in receipt of ANY type of benefit returning even PART of it due to a troubled conscience because of where some of the that benefit money originated from.

DITTO usage of NHS facilities, from Dentists to Hospitals.

DITTO a myriad other services and facilities we all take for granted in our daily lives.

I asked a similar question on the 'Open Door' immigration threads, for those advocating letting into this country all and sundry, to post if they were willing to, or indeed HAD already, let these 'desperate poor immigrants' live and sleep in their own homes, and the silence of response was deafening.

Similarly, I do not expect any type of affirmative response to this question either.

Which gives these 'protests' and views a hollow ring.

This country - like every other - is HISTORICALLY BUILT and CURRENTLY ENDURES upon the taxes of its citizens, and the wealth CREATED by its entrepeneurs, and that money -- no matter where it originates from, or how immorally it was historically made -- is inextricably steeped into the foundations, infrastructure, and superstructure of this country, and to 'protest' about aspects of it whilst gladly availing oneself of the whole, is just pure hypocritical B.S - in my opinion.

[Ninastar]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Don't you mean 'SOME' white people Cee Cee?

#equalityapparently

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Don't you mean 'SOME' white people Cee Cee?

Not sure anymore. It's getting harder and harder to find white people that are truly for genuine equality. When push comes to shove a lot of white people are having trouble getting rid of their supremacy, superior complex.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

The horrible 'Filthy Rich' monsters which are the entire Tory Party, the Land Grabbing Working Class exploiting Aristocracy, and a whole plethora of greedy exploitive Corporations who make huge profits from the merchandise produced by badly paid workers in 'Third World Sweatshops' - ALL pay taxes and have done since before you were born.

Give me one example of ANYONE in receipt of ANY type of benefit returning even PART of it due to a troubled conscience because of where some of the that benefit money originated from.

DITTO usage of NHS facilities, from Dentists to Hospitals.

DITTO a myriad other services and facilities we all take for granted in our daily lives.

I asked a similar question on the 'Open Door' immigration threads, for those advocating letting into this country all and sundry, to post if they were willing to, or indeed HAD already, let these 'desperate poor immigrants' live and sleep in their own homes, and the silence of response was deafening.

Similarly, I do not expect any type of affirmative response to this question either.

Which gives these 'protests' and views a hollow ring.

This country - like every other - is HISTORICALLY BUILT and CURRENTLY ENDURES upon the taxes of its citizens, and the wealth CREATED by its entrepeneurs, and that money -- no matter where it originates from, or how immorally it was historically made -- is inextricably steeped into the foundations, infrastructure, and superstructure of this country, and to 'protest' about aspects of it whilst gladly availing oneself of the whole, is just pure hypocritical B.S - in my opinion.

I'm having trouble deciphering this, how does it relate to my post you quoted?
Unless you mean everybody exploits everyone and that's it?

[Kyle]

Originally Posted by Ithinkiloveyoutoo

Not sure anymore. It's getting harder and harder to find white people that are truly for genuine equality. When push comes to shove a lot of white people are having trouble getting rid of their supremacy, superior complex.

As opposed to your persecution complex I'd wager.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I'm having trouble deciphering this, how does it relate to my post you quoted?
Unless you mean everybody exploits everyone and that's it?

I think it is patently clear to everyone else just what I mean in my post, and how it specifically relates to the post of yours which I quoted.

I am disappointed that you claim not to understand it therefore - especially as I deliberately wrote; "The horrible 'Filthy Rich' monsters which are the entire Tory Party" just so you could more easily identify yourself with the post.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Ithinkiloveyoutoo

Not sure anymore. It's getting harder and harder to find white people that are truly for genuine equality. When push comes to shove a lot of white people are having trouble getting rid of their supremacy, superior complex.

Really how do you come to these conclusions, years of research?

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Kyle

As opposed to your persecution complex I'd wager.

Indeed

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Indeed

I am 'mixed race' and grew up in a northern 'working class' relatively deprived area in an era when no other 'coloured' families were there, and neither then, nor as I matured, have I EVER encountered any form of racism or colour prejudice from anyone I have ever met -- and that includes most locations throughout the United Kingdom over decades.

I was treated so equally by my kind and decent 'white' neighbours and all the other people I encountered as a child, that I actually lost sight of the fact that I was coloured and sometimes looking in the mirror surprised me.

I do not claim that there are not now white 'racists' in the UK, but they are definitely in a small minority, and the same racism is equally as prevalent in a minority of black people and other races.

I will NEVER do Britain or the British people down, because it is their charity and decency which afforded my mother (and me) a life here.

There are worse people and worse countries.

[arista]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I am 'mixed race' and grew up in a northern 'working class' relatively deprived area in an era when no other 'coloured' families were there, and neither then, nor as I matured, have I EVER encountered any form of racism or colour prejudice from anyone I have ever met -- and that includes most locations throughout the United Kingdom over decades.

I was treated so equally by my kind and decent 'white' neighbours and all the other people I encountered as a child, that I actually lost sight of the fact that I was coloured and sometimes looking in the mirror surprised me.

I do not claim that there are not now white 'racists' in the UK, but they are definitely in a small minority, and the same racism is equally as prevalent in a minority of black people and other races.

I will NEVER do Britain or the British people down, because it is their charity and decency which afforded my mother (and me) a life here.

There are worse people and worse countries.

How Nice

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I think it is patently clear to everyone else just what I mean in my post, and how it specifically relates to the post of yours which I quoted.

I am disappointed that you claim not to understand it therefore - especially as I deliberately wrote; "The horrible 'Filthy Rich' monsters which are the entire Tory Party" just so you could more easily identify yourself with the post.

It may be but it's not clear to me which is why I asked for clarification.

Do I identify myself as a filthy rich tory?


Cecil Rhodes wrote 'confessions of faith' here are a few quotes-

'I contend that we are the finest race in the world and that the more of the world we inhabit the better it is for the human race. Just fancy those parts that are at present inhabited by the most despicable specimens of human beings what an alteration there would be if they were brought under Anglo-Saxon influence.'

'I contend that every acre added to our territory means in the future birth to some more of the English race who otherwise would not be brought into existence.'

'Why should we not form a secret society with but one object the furtherance of the British Empire and the bringing of the whole uncivilized world under British rule for the recovery of the United States for the making the Anglo-Saxon race but one Empire.'

'Africa is still lying ready for us it is our duty to take it. It is our duty to seize every opportunity of acquiring more territory and we should keep this one idea steadily before our eyes that more territory simply means more of the Anglo-Saxon race more of the best the most human, most honorable race the world possesses.'

'What has been the main cause of the success of the Romish Church? The fact that every enthusiast, call it if you like every madman finds employment in it. Let us form the same kind of society a Church for the extension of the British Empire. A society which should have its members in every part of the British Empire working with one object and one idea.... For fear that death might cut me off before the time for attempting its development I leave all my worldly goods in trust... to try to form such a Society with such a object.'


The ethics of this man no matter how you spin it are more aligned with those of ISIS and other fundamentalist organisations than what we in modern Britain can identify with both socially and politically. It is in essence diametrically opposed to any kind of democratic ideology and or reasoning, there is no way of avoiding that fact.
This is what is being perpetrated in our 'great colleges' I firmly feel this thinking is alive and flourishing in the establishment.
I understand there are those who don't/won't/ can't see it, however that is my belief.
I don't feel this man could or should be representative of modern Britain, I find him, his beliefs and his legacy questionable.



http://www.pitt.edu/~syd/rhod.html

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I am 'mixed race' and grew up in a northern 'working class' relatively deprived area in an era when no other 'coloured' families were there, and neither then, nor as I matured, have I EVER encountered any form of racism or colour prejudice from anyone I have ever met -- and that includes most locations throughout the United Kingdom over decades.

I was treated so equally by my kind and decent 'white' neighbours and all the other people I encountered as a child, that I actually lost sight of the fact that I was coloured and sometimes looking in the mirror surprised me.

I do not claim that there are not now white 'racists' in the UK, but they are definitely in a small minority, and the same racism is equally as prevalent in a minority of black people and other races.

I will NEVER do Britain or the British people down, because it is their charity and decency which afforded my mother (and me) a life here.

There are worse people and worse countries.

Not sure how it's possible to confidently assess the true number, Look at the recent Letwin 30yr rule expose, this I would say was a perfect example of focus is on an attitudinal shift which I would say is tangible, it's simply kept covert but still there simmering within communities and institutions.

There may be prejudice, but the same racist attitudes as British born whites? I can't agree.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Not sure how it's possible to confidently assess the true number, Look at the recent Letwin 30yr rule expose, this I would say was a perfect example of focus is on an attitudinal shift which I would say is tangible, it's simply kept covert but still there simmering within communities and institutions.

There may be prejudice, but the same racist attitudes as British born whites? I can't agree.

That's it then as usual - Debate/Discussion over if YOU can't agree.

No matter that your views are never substantiated by evidence or facts which are relevant to the topics under discussion, and no matter that you willingly accept articles from any source which aligns with your view and copy and paste them, whilst ignoring any articles or viewpoints with facts which debunk those copy-pasted articles.

I'll leave it at that then - 'British Born White' People are racist and no other races in Britain are, or if they are it is only so tidgy and squidgy that it pales in comparison. If you say so.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by arista

How Nice

It was 'nice' Arista - despite the poverty. People were selfless not selfish, and helped each other. We kids could play in the streets, the long fields or the park with no fears. Why we could even point toy guns at people without being murdered.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

That's it then as usual - Debate/Discussion over if YOU can't agree.

No matter that your views are never substantiated by evidence or facts which are relevant to the topics under discussion, and no matter that you willingly accept articles from any source which aligns with your view and copy and paste them, whilst ignoring any articles or viewpoints with facts which debunk those copy-pasted articles.

I'll leave it at that then - 'British Born White' People are racist and no other races in Britain are, or if they are it is only so tidgy and squidgy that it pales in comparison. If you say so.

How can it be over? I'm not the only person in the thread :/
That is not true, if you care to check all my references are from very reputable sources.
There is nothing here to debunk my view, no fact or source. Prejudice and racism are two different beasts.

[RichardG]

The college said after "careful consideration" it had decided the statue should remain but it would add "a clear historical context to explain why it is there".

The statement continued: "The college believes the recent debate has underlined that the continuing presence of these historical artefacts is an important reminder of the complexity of history and of the legacies of colonialism still felt today.

"By adding context, we can help draw attention to this history, do justice to the complexity of the debate, and be true to our educational mission."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...shire-35435805

[Kizzy]

Nothing to do with the 100m in donations threatened then? No :/

[Livia]

Good. Everyone's offended at everything.

[Northern Monkey]

It is all a part of the newest trend on campuses to shut down free speech and even debate on anything that some students disagree with.It does'nt even have to be a majority anymore as the minority who do want to ban everything including guest speakers to universties will throw their toys out of the pram until they get what they want.There is even a thing now called "safe space" where if anyone is going to be offended by views put forward in a debate or even views held by one of the speakers,which will not even feature in the debate.Rather than just not attend they will claim that it infringes on their "safe space" and just ban it.This is a threat to free speech which should be encouraged in universities.
Trying to remove a historical statue just because some people don't like the person it portrays is all part of this new craze of students to try and wrap themselves up in big fluffy blankets instead trying to prepare themselves to face the big bad world when they leave education.Many students have become so fragile that they can't handle a debate which has an oposing viewpoint to their own.When they leave education they may lack the maturity and skills to enter the worlds of politics etc where debate is required.