[Tom4784]

It was obviously intended as a racial insult and it'd be an outrage if she isn't pulled up on it.

[RodHull]

Oh to be clear I hope shes booted Im sick of her miserable face just making a wider point

[JoshBB]

Originally Posted by RodHull

Not for racism of course not that stems back 100s of years... no im referring to the use of the word ghetto and reinforcing the tough 'gangsta' image that went along with.

Josh above noted how most black people in films etc are depicted as drug dealers and such like, well black people themselves are complicit in that. They have to take some responsibility for when stupid badly educated girls like megan then throw the term out as an insult imo

Go to the deep south talk with people who saw their loved ones murdered by the KKK and see if they think black people describing themselves as ghetto or using the N word as a term of endearment is ok. Most won't

Black people should be able to act 'gangsta' all they want to. If celebrities like Iggy Azalea or Eminem can do it without backlash.. so can they.

To your point on black actors playing drug dealers in films, I don't think you realise but racism is more complex than just white people calling black people names. In modern history, there are many examples of people contributing to their own oppression without realising they are even doing so, and even examples of people supporting oppression against their own social grouping. An example of this could be the PoC in the (now defunct ) BNP. It's unfortunate but I think some minorities believe if they act like one of their oppressors, it gives them some kind of security. But it's selfish and damaging to the others who are not willing to subject themselves to discrimination.

And to your last point, simply and politely put, no. South America is culturally different to the UK for a start, they were much much more aggressive towards migrants of different ethnicites and so the 'N-word' perhaps may hold more hurtful qualities than in London. When the black people in South America wish to reclaim the word, that is their choice. As a white person that is not my place to do so, especially since historically white people have always controlled the lives of black people. Reclamation of a slur is solely the choice of the group oppressed by it. But even then, compassion wouldn't go amiss. If a person is deeply offended by a certain word as a result of historical persecution, it may be wise not to use it.

To conclude, black people are in no way responsible for any stereotypes or oppression that negatively impacts their lives and wellbeing. The guilt is solely in the hands of our white ancestors, and we can show some proper respect to black people by not using words our predecessors used to degrade and oppress them. If black people wish to use the words in hopes of sucking out the venom, best of luck to them. I think we owe them that much.

[RodHull]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

Black people should be able to act 'gangsta' all they want to. If celebrities like Iggy Azalea or Eminem can do it without backlash.. so can they.

Remind me where I said it was ok for white people to do this?

Originally Posted by JoshBB

To your point on black actors playing drug dealers in films, I don't think you realise but racism is more complex than just white people calling black people names. In modern history, there are many examples of people contributing to their own oppression without realising they are even doing so, and even examples of people supporting oppression against their own social grouping. An example of this could be the PoC in the (now defunct ) BNP. It's unfortunate but I think some minorities believe if they act like one of their oppressors, it gives them some kind of security. But it's selfish and damaging to the others who are not willing to subject themselves to discrimination.

Wasn't my point was replying to someone else but ok..

And sorry I call BS yes some of your facts are spot on, but no sorry lets take the gangsta rap scene of the late 80s and early 90s, that was whole groups of black people using the stereotype that they were violent had no moral compass were drug dealers, murderers etc to sell their records and they got VERY rich doing it... that is NOT them being unaware of what they were doing, in the beginning it was social commentary about how ****ty their living environment was, it later morphed into a caricature of itself and became imo very damaging (to this day)

Now if you want to argue that it isnt only black people of course it isnt most of the media who pedaled that music and the films were run by white people. And no this is not some self empowered civil rights movement who have every right to use that term they deliberately helped create a NEGATIVE stereotype of their own culture to reinforce an image that sold records and later movies, and a whole host of other merchandise.

Originally Posted by JoshBB

To conclude, black people are in no way responsible for any stereotypes or oppression that negatively impacts their lives and wellbeing.

Thats just as damaging and ill educated as someone who believes the opposite. Of course they have a part to play, prominent black people have even given whole lectures on just this subject, every day positive black role models in communities fight tooth and nail to turn their youth away from negative stereotypes created by other black stars.

Originally Posted by JoshBB

The guilt is solely in the hands of our white ancestors, and we can show some proper respect to black people by not using words our predecessors used to degrade and oppress them. If black people wish to use the words in hopes of sucking out the venom, best of luck to them. I think we owe them that much.

Racism is an inherent human trait if you want to be really deep, it just happened that white people back in the day happened to be the ones predominantly with the military power. And to be clear it isnt used to 'take the venom out' its used as a term to describe someone as tough or scary... its used negatively by both sides

[Carl Jayson]

Megan is a disgusting rat, I'll spit on her if I go on BOTS during her eviction.

[RodHull]

Originally Posted by Carl Jayson

Megan is a disgusting rat, I'll spit on her if I go on BOTS during her eviction.

This I agree with for a whole host of reasons, but I wouldnt waste my spit on her tbh

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by RodHull

Remind me where I said it was ok for white people to do this?



Wasn't my point was replying to someone else but ok..

And sorry I call BS yes some of your facts are spot on, but no sorry lets take the gangsta rap scene of the late 80s and early 90s, that was whole groups of black people using the stereotype that they were violent had no moral compass were drug dealers, murderers etc to sell their records and they got VERY rich doing it... that is NOT them being unaware of what they were doing, in the beginning it was social commentary about how ****ty their living environment was, it later morphed into a caricature of itself and became imo very damaging (to this day)

Now if you want to argue that it isnt only black people of course it isnt most of the media who pedaled that music and the films were run by white people. And no this is not some self empowered civil rights movement who have every right to use that term they deliberately helped create a NEGATIVE stereotype of their own culture to reinforce an image that sold records and later movies, and a whole host of other merchandise.



Thats just as damaging and ill educated as someone who believes the opposite. Of course they have a part to play, prominent black people have even given whole lectures on just this subject, every day positive black role models in communities fight tooth and nail to turn their youth away from negative stereotypes created by other black stars.




Racism is an inherent human trait if you want to be really deep, it just happened that white people back in the day happened to be the ones predominantly with the military power. And to be clear it isnt used to 'take the venom out' its used as a term to describe someone as tough or scary... its used negatively by both sides

Now this i totally agree with
Spot on

[Edna Mode]

Originally Posted by parmnion

She is from the ghetto though and sure acts like shes in one, so the comment was a fair one.

She's from Utica. That's not the ghetto. It's close to upstate New York, which is more wilderness than anything. Don't be ignorant and don't speak it you don't know what you're talking about.

[AarynGriesfan]

She shouldn't have used the word ghetto she could have gotten her point across without phrasing it like that but she clearly wasn't thinking properly when she went on that epic and amazing rant. I don't think the intent behind her saying that was motivated by racists thoughts though.

[crazycolaist]

Originally Posted by EspeonBB

In a lot of cases 'ghetto' is just a substitute for 'black' and ghettos are mainly associated with black people even if white people do live in them

That itself is a stereotype, There are many white slums i.e "Ghettos" in the world. You guys really need get out your respected countries more no offence.

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

Originally Posted by crazycolaist

That itself is a stereotype, There are many white slums i.e "Ghettos" in the world. You guys really need get out your respected countries more no offence.

To people like Megan the word "ghetto" is only associated to black end of story.

[kirklancaster]

It is all about context. She WAS intending to be racist when she used the word and she realised her intention.

The word 'Ghetto' is no more offensive than the words 'Council house' - until they are used in a an intentionally derogotary manner:

Can the phrase; "Get back to your council house" BE anything other than insulting?

American blacks DO use the 'N' word as a term of endearment when talking to each other or about each other, but that very same word has far more offensive intent when used by a non-black person to describe a black person.

There was simply NO other reason for Megan to use the word 'Ghetto' and to defend the indefensible is laughable.

And I am no P.C. aficionado.

[Cal.]

I don't think she'll get away with it. My mum doesn't even watch CBB and when I saw her this morning she asked about the girl being racist.

[chuff me dizzy]

You hear black people claim they from the ghetto all the time PC Britain ,what a bloody joke

[alex_front2]

But Chuff black people are not all the same, some claim to be from middle class life's and this is seldom seen in media.

Some black people listen to radio 2,3,4,5,6, and like indie rock and classical music. Not all black people like "urban" music like rap. News flash we are just as diverse as white people.

In Namibia and Botswana heavy metal is popular.
http://www.messynessychic.com/2013/1...tswana-africa/.

Some black people live in affluent neighborhoods like Kensington - the most expensive area in UK. Guess which race is the fastest growing home owners in this area? Yep, black people. Yet you still see middle / affluent class depicted as white people and black people only living in estates.

Ł1 in Ł3 spent in Harrods is now a Nigerian

http://www.tatler.com/news/articles/...s-have-arrived

Black people enjoy going to art galleries, museums , watch Scandi dramas, reading graphic novels and comic books, classic and contemporary literary novlists like Honore de Balzac, Gunter Grass, as well as Terry Pratchett's Disc world books, black people like doing triathlons, (horse) riding, drinking Chilean wine, walking in coutryside, skiing in Gstaad or holidaying in the Loire Valley, the Dordogne, family holiday in Ibiza, Dubrovnik, Cornwall, Laos, Peru, or Lithuania. Black people can be hedge fund managers, lawyers, chemical engineers, tech entrepreneurs, and interior designers, send their kids to private schools, shop at farmers markets, antique fairs, eat kale and quinoa.

Yet these things are depicted as being for white people.

Black people are mainly shown as being loud, uncouth, poor , jive talking, stupid, criminal, aggressive, rabid and wanton, violent and uneducated , only able to make money via crime, sports mainly football or rap music and its pi$$es me off. When Newsnight wanted a perspective from a young black person to discuss politics a few years back, did they go to Cambridge University or speak to the growing number of black tech entrepreneurs? Nope Jeremy Paxman spoke to rapper Dizzy Rascal.

Tiff for all her nasty behavior is way way way smarter and articulate than the thicko younger women Gemma, Megan, Kristina, Stephanie. None of them probably even know what the word "vernacular "mean. Let alone use it correctly like Tiff.

[Jamie89]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

It is all about context. She WAS intending to be racist when she used the word and she realised her intention.

The word 'Ghetto' is no more offensive than the words 'Council house' - until they are used in a an intentionally derogotary manner:

Can the phrase; "Get back to your council house" BE anything other than insulting?

American blacks DO use the 'N' word as a term of endearment when talking to each other or about each other, but that very same word has far more offensive intent when used by a non-black person to describe a black person.

There was simply NO other reason for Megan to use the word 'Ghetto' and to defend the indefensible is laughable.

And I am no P.C. aficionado.

I agree with this completely, there's no point going over what the literal meaning of 'ghetto' is and the fact that there are white ghetto's etc, because the issue is how it was intended. You've surprised me with this post actually Kirk, because I know how much you dislike the 'race card' and PC bull**** etc But even though there will be many people claiming that the 'race card' is being used in this situation, I think the reality is that there is a lot of racism in the world, and there are a lot of people who have racist thoughts, even if it's just on a mild level, so of course it's going to rear it's head when you lock 16 different people in a house together. Even if it isn't explicit, it's still important to be able to recognise it when it happens otherwise nothing will ever change

[sampvt]

The main reason why the Ghettos are atoned to blacks and drug deals and pimps are also depicted as predominantly black is an actual fact, not fiction. You can argue against fact and call it racism. Blacks call each other N.......s and brag thy are from the hood or the ghetto yet it seems controversial when a white utters these words. White trash is extremely racist but its not seen as a racist utterance, I wonder why.

[LeatherTrumpet]

can someone explain "why" its racist?

ghetto is not race specific last time I looked

According to the Oxford English Dictionary (OED), the word was first used in 1611 to describe a quarter in a city, chiefly in Italy, to which the Jews were restricted. (One theory is that it is derived from the Italian "borghetto", meaning a little borough, or from "getto", a foundry, as an early Jewish ghetto in Venice was created on the site of a former foundry.)


I am sure Pollard says she is "ghetto"

The word is widely used in America to mean poor, urban and cheap......

like redneck is for poor, country and cheap

You can even buy ghettopoly

[LeatherTrumpet]

[alex_front2]

Originally Posted by sampvt

The main reason why the Ghettos are atoned to blacks and drug deals and pimps are also depicted as predominantly black is an actual fact, not fiction. You can argue against fact and call it racism. Blacks call each other N.......s and brag thy are from the hood or the ghetto yet it seems controversial when a white utters these words. White trash is extremely racist but its not seen as a racist utterance, I wonder why.

Nope not true, most pimps, drug dealers are actually white.

I am black and I've never used the N word. Like I said black middle class in UK is growing. You might be one of those whites who hate seeing blacks do well and find it reassuring to believe black people are from some sort of underclass but your stereotype is hilariously wrong.

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by sampvt

The main reason why the Ghettos are atoned to blacks and drug deals and pimps are also depicted as predominantly black is an actual fact, not fiction. You can argue against fact and call it racism. Blacks call each other N.......s and brag thy are from the hood or the ghetto yet it seems controversial when a white utters these words. White trash is extremely racist but its not seen as a racist utterance, I wonder why.

[LeatherTrumpet]

I cant recall the last time I watched a liveleak vid from the USA where black people did not call each other the n word constantly

its pathetic to hear

[Edna Mode]

Originally Posted by chuff me dizzy

You clearly aren't able to grasp the concept of reclaiming words.
You know it was goddamn racist and your continued and almost obsessive hate towards her on this board is questionable in itself.

Do you understand that black people have had terms like this used against them, as a way of demeaning them, for hundreds of years.
First of all, the term "ghetto" in this case is being used in an American sense, not a European sense by referring to "ghetto" in a way to describe being "low class black."
Although Megan is British, we know she was using "ghetto" in its pop-culturally and culturally intended meaning, in which it's referring to African Americans of low income and class. She certainly wasn't referring to the Warsaw ghettos or anything like that. She was using the term in the sense promoted by popculture, in reference towards African Americans.

Now, with reclaiming a word. Think of it like this. If somebody tossed a water balloon at you every morning, reclaiming a word is grabbing that water ballon from them and holding it in your hand so that they can't hit you with it anymore and cause the same amount of water damage.

That's what reclaiming a word does. Now, that applies more to the use of the "n word" within Black communities rather than the term ghetto. Though some rappers use the term in reference to where they may have once grew up because it is true that many African Americans grow up in low income urban areas that would commonly be referred to as "the ghetto," this word being applied to Tiffany most certainly does have a racial connotation. Why?


1. Tiffany isn't from "the ghetto." She's from Utica. A small city near upstate New York State, a few miles away from mountains, wilderness, and forest.

2. Megan was clearly going to say "another word" before pausing for a minute and saying the c word. what was she going to say? Pause the video and look at her teeth, lips, and mouth. Now go to a mirror and make an n sound. Note the similarities.

She did use this word in a racial context. She was drunk, she was angry. Furthermore, I think she knew she got caught making a racial comment, hence why, after she did and security came in, she suddenly started begging everybody, "don't put this on Telly! You can't put it on telly!"

Yes, she said a word that has a racial connotation to it.
She was using it in a demeaning way to say that Tiffany was low class and black.

As someone who studies language as well as culture and pop culture for a living, I can assure you that that word was not said by Megan in a non-racial way.

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Edna Mode

You clearly aren't able to grasp the concept of reclaiming words.
You know it was goddamn racist and your continued and almost obsessive hate towards her on this board is questionable in itself.

Do you understand that black people have had terms like this used against them, as a way of demeaning them, for hundreds of years.
First of all, the term "ghetto" in this case is being used in an American sense, not a European sense by referring to "ghetto" in a way to describe being "low class black."
Although Megan is British, we know she was using "ghetto" in its pop-culturally and culturally intended meaning, in which it's referring to African Americans of low income and class. She certainly wasn't referring to the Warsaw ghettos or anything like that. She was using the term in the eu promoted by popculture, in reference towards African Americans.

Now, with reclaiming a word. Think of it like this. If somebody tossed a water balloon at you every morning, reclaiming a word is grabbing that water ballon from them and holding it in your hand so that they can't hit you with it anymore and cause the same amount of water damage.

That's what reclaiming a word does. Now, that applies more to the use of the "n word" within Black communities rather than the term ghetto. Though some rappers use the term in reference to where they may have once grew up because it is true that many African Americans grow up in low income urban areas that would commonly be referred to as "the ghetto," this word being applied to Tiffany most certainly does have a racial connotation. Why?


1. Tiffany isn't from "the ghetto." She's from Utica. A small city near upstate New York State, a few miles away from mountains, wilderness, and forest.

2. Megan was clearly going to say "another word" before pausing for a minute and saying the c word. what was she going to say? Pause the video and look at her teeth, lips, and mouth. Now go to a mirror and make an n sound. Note the similarities.

She did use this word in a racial context. She was drunk, she was angry. Furthermore, I think she knew she got caught making a racial comment, hence why, after she did and security came in, she suddenly started begging everybody, "don't put this on Telly! You can't put it on telly!"

Yes, she said a word that has a racial connotation to it.
She was using it in a demeaning way to say that Tiffany was low class and black.

As someone who studies language as well as culture and pop culture for a living, I can assure you that that word was not said by Megan in a non-racial way.

Do you understand that black people have had terms like this used against them, as a way of demeaning them, for hundreds of years.

How old are these people 200 years old?

I would imagine most black people under 40 have never heard it uttered by anyone apart from a black person

[LeatherTrumpet]

"Megan was clearly going to say "another word" before pausing for a minute and saying the c word."


Mindreading is not allowed on Tibb