[arista]

Now if you work in a Office,
for example,
at a Computer Desktop,
and you tell your Boss
its work related
but then use yahoo messenger


You Get FIRED


And I back that 100%
Employers must inform workers
what they can do and not do.

Then is a Worker gives you a Outright Lie
Sack Them

Lay It On The Line


This was a Live Debate
on itv's GMBHD 6:24AM on the on screen clock

[Calderyon]

To a point, yes.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Calderyon

To a point, yes.

It pays to be Honest
with your Boss,


Time Is Money

[Toy Soldier]

Does Yahoo Messenger even exist anymore?

"Pardon sire! For I was just preparing a parchment to send to cousin Timothy by carrier pigeon with greatest haste! Aunt really has been most dreadfully ill... "

[Toy Soldier]

P.S. I'd bounce my phone off my bosses' faces before I'd let them read through its contents. I'm not even joking.

Luckily, the one miniscule perk of my job is that I only see them once a month or less, and I always know when they're coming because they call to be let in the back fire exit at the car park, as they're too lazy to take the 30 second walk round to the front. Ahhhh.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

P.S. I'd bounce my phone off my bosses' faces before I'd let them read through its contents. I'm not even joking.

Luckily, the one miniscule perk of my job is that I only see them once a month or less, and I always know when they're coming because they call to be let in the back fire exit at the car park, as they're too lazy to take the 30 second walk round to the front. Ahhhh.

Off topic, but a serious question now T.S. because - as you know - I respect your views:

Do you ever feel that your immediate superiors - Area Managers or whatever - know feck all about the job and that you 'carry' them?

I cannot help but draw that conclusion whenever I come into contact with companies, including my wife's firm, where the greater percentage of middle to higher management are useless buffoons and are usually braggadocios who actually know very little of the work they are being well paid for, and who do not deserve their salaries.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Off topic, but a serious question now T.S. because - as you know - I respect your views:

Do you ever feel that your immediate superiors - Area Managers or whatever - know feck all about the job and that you 'carry' them?

I cannot help but draw that conclusion whenever I come into contact with companies, including my wife's firm, where the greater percentage of middle to higher management are useless buffoons and are usually braggadocios who actually know very little of the work they are being well paid for, and who do not deserve their salaries.

Yes. I know it sounds like trumpet-blowing, but as a massive underachiever (top school grades, top University offers, MOST of a degree ) I can say quite confidently that most of the supervisory / area manager level staff are... To be blunt... Uneducated and unintelligent.

Worse still is that I've worked alongside plenty of very bright staff and watched them be passed over time and time again (the ones who are really trying, I'd be lying if I said I'm in that boat ) because, for those roles, they don't want clever and imaginative people with ideas for working independently. They want jobsworths who will do as they are told. Blindly following whichever insane idea the folks in London (who never set a foot on ground level) have come up with, then they berate us for a while when these plans inevitably fail miserably... Before accepting that it was a bad plan, and coming up with another. Usually it's worse.

Its been getting worse recently, too. A few years ago we had a decent level of autonomy and could do things that WE knew would work... And they often worked very well. The structure of the company then changed and they now want "cookie cutter" conformity across the company. I have no idea why. It's impersonal, and people hate it. We're not even allowed to buy Halloween decorations - they send a little box with a few things and a diagram of exactly where to place them...


I also have a good friend who is very successful in a pensions investment company... Who described our company structure, when I described it to him, as "literally one of the worse he's ever heard".

[Livia]

If you're paying someone a salary to work, then they shouldn't be goofing off, right?

I mean, it's not like I'm ever on here when I should be working.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Livia

If you're paying someone a salary to work, then they shouldn't be goofing off, right?

I mean, it's not like I'm ever on here when I should be working.

Me neither

[LeatherTrumpet]

when i started working there were no computers or mobiles and somehow everyone managed to work

How they did this I cant quite recall

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Yes. I know it sounds like trumpet-blowing, but as a massive underachiever (top school grades, top University offers, MOST of a degree ) I can say quite confidently that most of the supervisory / area manager level staff are... To be blunt... Uneducated and unintelligent.

Worse still is that I've worked alongside plenty of very bright staff and watched them be passed over time and time again (the ones who are really trying, I'd be lying if I said I'm in that boat ) because, for those roles, they don't want clever and imaginative people with ideas for working independently. They want jobsworths who will do as they are told. Blindly following whichever insane idea the folks in London (who never set a foot on ground level) have come up with, then they berate us for a while when these plans inevitably fail miserably... Before accepting that it was a bad plan, and coming up with another. Usually it's worse.

Its been getting worse recently, too. A few years ago we had a decent level of autonomy and could do things that WE knew would work... And they often worked very well. The structure of the company then changed and they now want "cookie cutter" conformity across the company. I have no idea why. It's impersonal, and people hate it. We're not even allowed to buy Halloween decorations - they send a little box with a few things and a diagram of exactly where to place them...


I also have a good friend who is very successful in a pensions investment company... Who described our company structure, when I described it to him, as "literally one of the worse he's ever heard".

I KNEW the answers before I asked you the questions, and I recognise all that you are saying as true - even down to the Halloween box example.

The trouble is (and I half suspect Parliament is like this) sooner or later, this kind of accepted 'institutional' banality, wears down the genuine hard-working, honest and conscientious, employees who are loyal and who do have initiative, and they usually end up 'going with the flow' or they leave.

It is no wonder that so many companies hit the wall.

Thanks for replying.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

when i started working there were no computers or mobiles and somehow everyone managed to work

How they did this I cant quite recall

I'm guessing it was a high stool a quill pen and a candle when you started work LT.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Livia

I'm guessing it was a high stool a quill pen and a candle when you started work LT.

And for Ebeneezer Scrooge too Liv.

[Ross.]

Something tells me Niamh and Livia are going to be on here a lot less during the day

[joeysteele]

On balance I don't agree with this unless it is affecting someone's work, if otherwise there are no complaints about employees commitment and work done then I do not agree with this.

[bitontheslide]

It very much depends on the business activities of the company in question, its impossible to generalise. In some circumstances, it is important that all outside communication is monitored, in others, it doesn't matter a damn.

[Anaesthesia]

I am one of the most productive analysts where I work, yet my method of working is that I'll take 5 mins during every hour to check personal email / BBC. For me it's a necessary break and I wouldn't be nearly as effective strangling my brain by looking at one thing for hours on end. Almost like flipping a TV remote during commercials.

Do I think my employer would question this? Hopefully not. I'd like to think your history would only be looked into if your productivity was low. It doesn't do anyone any favours if they fear they will be constantly monitored, and an intelligent employer wouldn't do this.

Yes, by all means, if you are looking for a reason to get rid of someone, it's now a strong point in the employer's favour. But hell, if you are at the point when you need investigating, probably you deserve to be sacked anyway.

[Anaesthesia]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

when i started working there were no computers or mobiles and somehow everyone managed to work

How they did this I cant quite recall

Lmao, same...I was trying to recall the other day how I managed at work with no computers or mobiles but I honestly can't make any sense of how we did it!

First computer use for me was 1990 when I was at Digital :O

Also we were allowed to smoke at our desks in the late 80s, something that horrifies me now even though I still smoke :P

[AnnieK]

Most companies have pretty strict internet policies already with regards to personal use. Companies need to ensure the integrity of their systems. The company I work for are fairly relaxed about sending personal emails etc as long as it's not abused, they do ask that we do any web surfing during very quiet times or lunch breaks etc and no one abuses that really. Luckily I'm in charge of our social media accounts so I am often found on Facebook / Twitter etc....on company business of course

[Kizzy]

''The British press has been accused of whipping up a “misinformed media storm” over a court case in which judges decided that a man whose employer accessed his personal messages had not had his rights violated.

Europe’s top human rights body took the unusual step of issuing a statement explaining how the European court of human rights works after a series of what it called “inaccurate scare stories” was published this week.

“Certain parts of the UK media sometimes have trouble getting their facts right when covering ‘Europe’. It’s understandable, to a certain extent. Europe’s institutions are complicated, journalists cover lots of different issues and they work to tight deadlines,” a spokesman for the body said.''

http://www.theguardian.com/technolog...l-spying-story

[Northern Monkey]

At the end of the day.If somebody were to be doing something illegal on a company computer the buck stops with the company.I suppose they have to check once in a while to make sure nothing dodgy is going on.

[arista]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

On balance I don't agree with this unless it is affecting someone's work, if otherwise there are no complaints about employees commitment and work done then I do not agree with this.

Yes Joey thats when they get you.


Stick to the Rules
Be Honest with a Team Leader
or Manager

[Anaesthesia]

Originally Posted by arista

Yes Joey thats when they get you.


Stick to the Rules
Be Honest with a Team Leader
or Manager

Well obviously. On the other hand there's no need to run to your manager every hour asking if it's ok to check BBC / email when you'll likely be doing that for 3 mins or less.

Joey, I agree...it won't even be an issue during everyday working life tbh unless it's someone that needs investigating anyway. In which case, fair enough.