[Kizzy]

What are your thoughts?
If it's forced is it still a contract?

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...-politics-live

[Toy Soldier]

Well if its all going "private-esque" that's pretty much the norm, unfortunately. Contract changes are forced constantly. You're told you "don't have to sign" with a nod and a wink that says "lol of course you have to sign". They'll find a way to get rid of you for misconduct or make you so miserable that you quit otherwise. Ahh, capitalism.

[Vicky.]

What a ****ing arsehole.

I kinda think sometimes that all of this is just happening so that in a few years when doctors are totally wiped out and making mistakes due to tiredness coz of ridiculous hours and such...people will be more supportive of privatizing the NHS :S

There is no other explanation I can think of for what this odious bastard is doing.

[Livia]

Suicidal decision by the government. I don't personally believe in striking, especially for the medical profession. However, I don't see that they were left much of an option and if the government does try to force the contract on them it will be just be one of many nails currently being hammered into the Conservative coffin.

[smudgie]

I would love to see exactly what is being offered to the doctors, as well as what is being taken away.
How it affects us as patients etc. What the wages are to start with, 13 and a half per cent pay rise sounds like an awful lot when compared to anything near what anyone else can expect in these times.
Hopefully now it has been imposed it can all be made public.

[bitontheslide]

I think the government are behaving like a shower of tossers at the moment. Even if they did have a valid case, there are better ways of approaching the issue. This intransigence in their attitude could see them out of government for a very long time.

[Kizzy]

They are past caring, everything of value has been sold, our deterrent is useless, our stocks worthless and cash has been disappearing into a conservative vortex for years under the guise of 'updating systems'.
Effectively the country is being wound down.
And we stood idly by as we didn't wish to be seen as a civil disobedient.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by smudgie

I would love to see exactly what is being offered to the doctors, as well as what is being taken away.
How it affects us as patients etc. What the wages are to start with, 13 and a half per cent pay rise sounds like an awful lot when compared to anything near what anyone else can expect in these times.
Hopefully now it has been imposed it can all be made public.

MPs got 11% will parliament now sit at weekends?

[smudgie]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

MPs got 11% will parliament now sit at weekends?

Well, they have to have time to spend with their constituents, they can't be seen sat on their backsides arguing like a bunch of kids 7 days a week.

[joeysteele]

Hoped for better as a health secretary from Jeremy Hunt after the awful Andrew Lansley.
Sadly not the case.

A good few of my family work in the NHS, one who was a Junior Doctor already left for to work abroad last year.

This is a total shambles and disgrace from the govt. and will lead to more disharmony and destroyed morale as to the Junior Doctors.
He will reap what he sows from this one and all of it will be very sad for the NHS because of his and his govts uncompromising dictatorial attitude.

However voters were warned as to the NHS under this lot under Cameron in May last year and extremely unfortunately and sadly for the NHS,enough took no notice of all warnings.

[Tom4784]

He's a complete twat, a liar and inept at his job. This is only going to make things worse.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

They are past caring, everything of value has been sold, our deterrent is useless, our stocks worthless and cash has been disappearing into a conservative vortex for years under the guise of 'updating systems'.
Effectively the country is being wound down.
And we stood idly by as we didn't wish to be seen as a civil disobedient.

You really are a glass-half-empty kinda gal...

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

You really are a glass-half-empty kinda gal...

Is that your personal or professional opinion?

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

What a ****ing arsehole.

I kinda think sometimes that all of this is just happening so that in a few years when doctors are totally wiped out and making mistakes due to tiredness coz of ridiculous hours and such...people will be more supportive of privatizing the NHS :S

There is no other explanation I can think of for what this odious bastard is doing.

I was expecting the word "liberty" instead of arsehole.

Arsehole did the trick though

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

What a ****ing arsehole.

I kinda think sometimes that all of this is just happening so that in a few years when doctors are totally wiped out and making mistakes due to tiredness coz of ridiculous hours and such...people will be more supportive of privatizing the NHS :S

There is no other explanation I can think of for what this odious bastard is doing.

Very worrying that but I think as on many other big issues, you have probably hit the nail on the head again.

Lovely terminologies too as to Jeremy Hunt,sums him up really perfectly in my view.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Very worrying that but I think as on many other big issues, you have probably hit the nail on the head again.

Lovely terminologies too as to Jeremy Hunt,sums him up really perfectly in my view.

Best word for him rhymes with his surname I reckon

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Best word for him rhymes with his surname I reckon

*high five*

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Is that your personal or professional opinion?

I was going on the evidence available. I don't think the country is quite on its knees yet... That said, I am 100% against the Tories on this particular issue.

[arista]

http://news.sky.com/story/1640160/hu...political-risk

[Forcing junior doctors to accept a work contract with which they
profoundly disagree carries a huge political risk for the Government.
Despite two days of industrial action and nearly 7,000 medical procedures cancelled,
the gap between the NHS and the British Medical Association appears to be unbridgeable]


Yes its a Big Risk
I hope to get a Balanced Debate at 7PM
Live on Ch4HD news

[MTVN]

Hunt's intentions in putting patients first and creating a seven day NHS were fairly reasonable imo. No doubt the government has blundered its way along with these reforms but then the BMA haven't exactly covered themselves in glory either.

[the truth]

1) cant these doctors just leave England and work in wales or Scotland who are not part of hunts plane?
2) wasn't hunt told to resign when he helped push the through sky takeover deal 3 years agO

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

I was going on the evidence available. I don't think the country is quite on its knees yet... That said, I am 100% against the Tories on this particular issue.

I speak as I find, well we can't all be happy clappy optimists can we?

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I speak as I find, well we can't all be happy clappy optimists can we?

honesty is optimism

[joeysteele]

Have the BMA really acted that badly here.

Does anyone really and honestly believe that Junior Doctors who we know do, and who we want to continue doing so, as to saving lives, are actually so thick that they cannot work out a bad deal when they see it.

they too have analysed this supposed good deal of Hunts and the vast majority are furious with it.
Why to try to ease pressure on a rotten govt,( who are hell bent it seems on upsetting all areas of vital services from the Police, Firemen and now to Doctors),to say Doctors don't understand this deal and are being brainwashed by the BMA.
Doctors are highly intelligent people and have to be, to assume they are unable to see for themselves the pitfalls of this rotten policy, is really insulting to them.

The Health Secretary is usually supposed to consult,support and work with Doctors, not alienate them and drive them away and that is what he risks if he goes ahead with this stubborn headed view this deal is the only way forward in his view.
Already some signatories to the deal being imposed are asking for their names to be removed now.

Everyone wrong except for the govt,when in fact this govt is a shambles as to the NHS and after the lies of Cameron as to the original reforms from 2010, he should never have been trusted with it again.
Actually however, I would still now give him massive credit were he to step into this issue and make his Health secretary look at this again with far more involved consultation with the Junior Doctors from now on.

However, I won't hold my breath waiting for that but it is what he should now do.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Best word for him rhymes with his surname I reckon

Good one.