[starry]

Originally Posted by Livia

If people had been allowed to voice their concerns about immigration before, without everyone to the left of centre accusing them of racism and xenophobia, maybe the picture would have been different. The danger with ignoring people's concerns is that those concerns grow into problems.

And really, I'm tired of the suggestion that we are a ridiculously racist country when we are not. I hope this is a lesson learned. You have to listen to people because if you keep them down by calling them names, it just blows the situation out of all proportion.

I think some people just want more control of their own country rather than just some unelected German and French EU commissioners threatening us from abroad.

The fact is this country is split and has been for some time. The electoral system ignores that and disenfranchises people, but a referendum actually gives people a voice.

I think there is a great deal of scaremongering and some people seem to want things to go bad just because things didn't go their way. The way to address things properly is to listen to people, treat everyone with respect whether they are on the same side or not, and move forward. But with the dictatorial way the country has been run getting governing politicians to accept a more consensus approach won't be easy.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by starry

The fact is this country is split and has been for some time. The electoral system ignores that and disenfranchises people, but a referendum actually gives people a voice.

Had it been a resounding voice, sure, as it is though all it really did is confirm that the country is indeed split pretty much 50-50. Half of the country still living in a world that they didn't want or vote for. How is that any different to the electoral system?

[joeysteele]

Really good post starry and I agree with it all, especially as to our electoral system, which I now see as heightening divisions and not healing them, causing actually now more disconnect with voters and politics rather than drawing them in..

There are consensus Politicians in all parties, however I have to strongly say this,it is equally wrong, in my view for anyone to accuse 'everyone on the left',of whom I am one and a great majority of decent people are, of jumping on a racism bandwagon.
Grossly offensive.

Generalised and meant irrational prejudice against the right or left of politics, is as divisive and wrong in my view as are the worse kind of prejudices of racism and xenophobia.

[starry]

You could say the same if it was the other way. Of course it gives more separatist people a chance to come forward, same with the Scottish referendum. But if these issues had been addressed better, and Cameron got nothing when he went to negotiate before the vote, then this would likely not have happened. If politicians just ignore people's opinions, or scaremonger to try and shut them up then it's not going to work out well for anyone. You wouldn't really need referendums to decide things if politicians did their job properly and listened.

[Kizzy]

The shopkeeper of a Polish store near me was found unconscious covered in blood this morning.

What has been unleashed in the UK?...

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

The shopkeeper of a Polish store near me was found unconscious covered in blood this morning.

What has been unleashed in the UK?...

why is it related to this thread?

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

why is it related to this thread?

It was a racially motivated attack, and yes there were witnesses who can attest it was.

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

It was a racially motivated attack, and yes there were witnesses who can attest it was.

and they mentioned the referendum?


do you have a news link?

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

and they mentioned the referendum?


do you have a news link?

It is a racially motivated attack following the referendum, which is the reason this thread was created isn't it?

Have a look on the West Yorkshire Police website if you want details.

[Toy Soldier]

Two incidents I heard about directly, today, from the source:

1) A friend of my wife lives in London, her mother is Greek and recently moved over here after her husband died, to live near her daughter and grandchild. Yesterday they were on the bus in the center of London - with her 6-year-old granddaughter I have to add - and a man went on an aggressive 10 minute long rant at her about how "the nation has voted and she needs to **** off back home" after he heard her accent. The bus was packed. Not one person said a word to help.

2) This one absolutely stunned me TBH. A Canadian guy we know - who is actually British - British parents born and raised, he was born in Canada and lived there until his teens (now in his 20's) and he still has a Canadian accent. He was out doing his shopping, was heading back to his car, someone behind him shouted "Go back to America we don't want you here" and when he turned around they punched him square in the jaw.


I'll also point out that I don't actually know that many people from outside the UK (most of my non-UK University friends "went home" happily after Uni) so it's not like I'm drawing from a huge sample size here. These are not isolated incidents, and they are not coincidences. England currently has a MAJOR problem with hate crime. The vote hasn't "changed anyone" of course and this isn't the majority of Leave voters or anything like that - bot those who DO hold these opinions are currently feeling bolstered and driven by an idea that "the country is behind them".

Oh and apparently it extends to Canadians and Americans, too?? It seems like anyone who doesn't have an English accent is fair game right now. To be honest, I don't imagine it's much fun having a Scottish or Irish accent and living in England right now, either.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Two incidents I heard about directly, today, from the source:

1) A friend of my wife lives in London, her mother is Greek and recently moved over here after her husband died, to live near her daughter and grandchild. Yesterday they were on the bus in the center of London - with her 6-year-old granddaughter I have to add - and a man went on an aggressive 10 minute long rant at her about how "the nation has voted and she needs to **** off back home" after he heard her accent. The bus was packed. Not one person said a word to help.

2) This one absolutely stunned me TBH. A Canadian guy we know - who is actually British - British parents born and raised, he was born in Canada and lived there until his teens (now in his 20's) and he still has a Canadian accent. He was out doing his shopping, was heading back to his car, someone behind him shouted "Go back to America we don't want you here" and when he turned around they punched him square in the jaw.


I'll also point out that I don't actually know that many people from outside the UK (most of my non-UK University friends "went home" happily after Uni) so it's not like I'm drawing from a huge sample size here. These are not isolated incidents, and they are not coincidences. England currently has a MAJOR problem with hate crime. The vote hasn't "changed anyone" of course and this isn't the majority of Leave voters or anything like that - bot those who DO hold these opinions are currently feeling bolstered and driven by an idea that "the country is behind them".

Oh and apparently it extends to Canadians and Americans, too?? It seems like anyone who doesn't have an English accent is fair game right now. To be honest, I don't imagine it's much fun having a Scottish or Irish accent and living in England right now, either.

It's only going to get worse, these people have think they've won and that their actions are now perfectly acceptable and they're only going to get louder and more violent because times are going to get harder and anyone that doesn't fit the mould will bare the brunt of the blame even though it's squarely down to Brexit for ****ing everything up.

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Two incidents I heard about directly, today, from the source:

1) A friend of my wife lives in London, her mother is Greek and recently moved over here after her husband died, to live near her daughter and grandchild. Yesterday they were on the bus in the center of London - with her 6-year-old granddaughter I have to add - and a man went on an aggressive 10 minute long rant at her about how "the nation has voted and she needs to **** off back home" after he heard her accent. The bus was packed. Not one person said a word to help.

2) This one absolutely stunned me TBH. A Canadian guy we know - who is actually British - British parents born and raised, he was born in Canada and lived there until his teens (now in his 20's) and he still has a Canadian accent. He was out doing his shopping, was heading back to his car, someone behind him shouted "Go back to America we don't want you here" and when he turned around they punched him square in the jaw.


I'll also point out that I don't actually know that many people from outside the UK (most of my non-UK University friends "went home" happily after Uni) so it's not like I'm drawing from a huge sample size here. These are not isolated incidents, and they are not coincidences. England currently has a MAJOR problem with hate crime. The vote hasn't "changed anyone" of course and this isn't the majority of Leave voters or anything like that - bot those who DO hold these opinions are currently feeling bolstered and driven by an idea that "the country is behind them".

Oh and apparently it extends to Canadians and Americans, too?? It seems like anyone who doesn't have an English accent is fair game right now. To be honest, I don't imagine it's much fun having a Scottish or Irish accent and living in England right now, either.

why is this relevant to the referendum?

or is every racist attack now attributed to the referendum because it makes remainers feel better?

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

It's only going to get worse, these people have think they've won and that their actions are now perfectly acceptable and they're only going to get louder and more violent because times are going to get harder and anyone that doesn't fit the mould will bare the brunt of the blame even though it's squarely down to Brexit for ****ing everything up.

Dezzy's crystal ball must have got another polish

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

why is this relevant to the referendum?

or is every racist attack now attributed to the referendum because it makes remainers feel better?

To deny that it's not because of the referendum result is ridiculous to the point of delusion, LT. In the first case the man did specifically mention the vote. In the second we're talking about a guy who has lived here most of his life suddenly being attacked for having a Canadian accent.

As I said I don't even know many non-UK-native people personally and of the very small number I do know, two, who have never even felt uncomfortable in the country having been here YEARS or even over a decade, have been outright attacked less than a week after the referendum?

There's a limit to what you can realistically call coincidence LT, without it simply becoming a farce.

[LeatherTrumpet]

as far as i saw the man on the bus was a drunk mentalist as for the second incident you are attributing it with zero evidence. random attacks happen every day in the UK.

Like this one in May

Horrific moment convicted Polish rapist BEATS stranger after being in Britain for TWO DAYS

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/671...n-for-TWO-DAYS

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

why is this relevant to the referendum?

or is every racist attack now attributed to the referendum because it makes remainers feel better?

Be careful, you'll get sand in your mouth.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

as far as i saw the man on the bus was a drunk mentalist as for the second incident you are attributing it with zero evidence. random attacks happen every day in the UK.

Like this one in May

Horrific moment convicted Polish rapist BEATS stranger after being in Britain for TWO DAYS

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/671...n-for-TWO-DAYS

"Random" attacks happened to TWO non-UK nationals who I know personally within less than a week of the referendum, both with "get out of our country" messages, despite neither of them having ever been attacked before.

You're living in a dangerously blinkered fantasy, that's all I can say.

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

"Random" attacks happened to TWO non-UK nationals who I know personally within less than a week of the referendum, both with "get out of our country" messages, despite neither of them having ever been attacked before.

You're living in a dangerously blinkered fantasy, that's all I can say.

i would imagine there were more violent attacks following Englands defeat to Iceland tbh - imo

[Alf]

We have laws to deal with these people.

Stop flaming the fires.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

i would imagine there were more violent attacks following Englands defeat to Iceland tbh - imo

I can see that this is another "Kate McCann" situation for you LT, meaning that there's not really much point discussing it.

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

Poor Trish Adudu Some racist had a field day calling someone a Pak-- then turning to BBc news reporter "n----- go home "

https://twitter.com/imajsaclaimant/s...73437713272833

Racist bastards you need the diversity. How often do you bloody spend abroad cause you can't bear your own country for more than a few working months. Those that have money make the choice to not even stay here.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Ithinkiloveyoutoo

Poor Trish Adudu Some racist had a field day calling someone a Pak-- then turning to BBc news reporter "n----- go home "

https://twitter.com/imajsaclaimant/s...73437713272833

Racist bastards you need the diversity. How often do you bloody spend abroad cause you can't bear your own country for more than a few working months. Those that have money make the choice to not even stay here.

..yeah I read that a few days after the referendum vote outcome, CeeCee...mind you, sadly I don't think it's because of the outcome as such because I think that it would have been the same with a small percentage Remain win...it's that delusion that there are 'many voices' in the prejudice that is felt by a few....it's now making those voices realise that they are isolated in their racial prejudice...

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Dezzy's crystal ball must have got another polish

Is this a 'pun' LT?

[arista]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..yeah I read that a few days after the referendum vote outcome, CeeCee...mind you, sadly I don't think it's because of the outcome as such because I think that it would have been the same with a small percentage Remain win...it's that delusion that there are 'many voices' in the prejudice that is felt by a few....it's now making those voices realise that they are isolated in their racial prejudice...

I do not mind the Public On TV.

But other Day Jamelia, on LWHD (itv)
took over the start of the show
but could not confirm who it was
who was rude to her?
No photo - No Confirmation
of his uniform?
The Police are helping her
LWHD told us.


That was not in the Papers , much
so some things become Promo's

[Tom4784]

The Police have revealed that the rate of reported hate crime is five times higher than it was before the referendum with a police chief suspecting that the number would be significantly higher if you countered unreported issues since it's not a crime that gets reported a lot.

I'm sure this increase in racist incidents that began just after the referendum has NOTHING AT ALL to do with the Referendum....