[Jamie89]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ie-age-UK.html

its on every news source for the last 2 days I am amazed you have not heard of this?

No I'd not really heard much about it... it still has the claim in the BBC article about it too. A lot of them are obviously very young though so I don't know, I guess the point is that some people will lie in desperate circumstances. Painting it as though it's all of them isn't helpful. They won't have taken a random selection for those pictures in the OP. A lot of people will look at them though and assume they're representative of all 'child' migrants. That makes me uneasier than the migrants themselves tbh,

[Wizard.]

And when these men are put into schools and have sex with young girls then what will the Home Office do? I am a proud Conservative, but Amber Rudd is not up to the job.

[LeatherTrumpet]

terrorists lie too to get into countries

[LeatherTrumpet]

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/10...gee-conundrum/

Interesting article about this

"Just as I did when I visited the illegal shanty-town a couple of weeks ago and met a man from Afghanistan who said he was a boy.He said his name was Imran Sheerzad and I got talking to him because he was, as far as I could tell, the only one in there who spoke intelligible English. He said he was 16 but looked 25. He had been in the Jungle for four months where he had arrived via Turkey and the Balkans after a four-month journey. His family in Nangarhar Province on the Pakistan border had given him 8,000 euros to pay for his pilgrimage.

So I asked him if he was married and he said ‘yes’ and how old his wife was and he said ’18’ and if they had a child to which he said ‘yes’ who is, he told me, a one-year-old boy. And did he have a passport that he could show me? No, he had no passport, no documents at all. So he said.

Obviously, he was not a child but was he at least a refugee? ‘I am not really refugee, no,’ he conceded. Afghanis do not have automatic refugee status. ‘But I need help,’ he added. Why was he – why was everyone in the Jungle – so dead keen on Britain? What was wrong with France? ‘The facilities,’ he explained. He was unable or unwilling to elaborate.

Yet in the year to September 2015, two-thirds of child asylum seekers in Britain whose age was disputed by officials – according to latest Home Office figures – were found to be adults."

[Ammi]

...an interesting article 'why do the "migrants" in Calais want to come to the UK?'....


https://www.freemovement.org.uk/why-...ome-to-the-uk/

Agents were found to play a key role in the final destination:

"Some agents simply facilitated travel to a destination chosen by the asylum seeker. Other agents directed asylum seekers to particular countries without giving them any choice. Yet other agents offered asylum seekers a priced ‘menu’ of destinations from which the asylum seeker could then choose".

For those that did have an element of choice about their destination, there were a range of factors*that influenced that choice:

"These were: whether they had relatives or friends here; their belief that the UK is a safe, tolerant and democratic country; previous links between their own country and the UK including colonialism; and their ability to speak English or desire to learn it.
There was very little evidence that the sample respondents had a detailed knowledge of: UK immigration or asylum procedures; entitlements to benefits in the UK; or the availability of work in the UK. There was even less evidence that the respondents had a comparative knowledge of how these phenomena varied between different European countries. Most of the respondents wished to work and support themselves during the determination of their asylum claim rather than be dependent on the state."




Attitudes towards work for those questioned seemed to be complex. Back in 2002 the media and Home Office were obsessed with the idea that bogus asylum seekers wanted to claim benefits. These days, after our collective experience of EU migration, most of us now surely recognise that the desire to work is likely to be a more significant*motivation for migration.
The research*found that most of those questioned believed they would be*allowed to work, wanted to work and thought they would have to work:

"Many of the respondents had worked in the country of origin (and acquired skills and had careers there), and wanted to do so again when they arrived in the country where they claimed asylum. Finding a job was important because it enabled people to rebuild their lives after what had often been traumatic and disruptive experiences. It helped refugees to regain their self-respect and confidence, and to focus upon the future…"


This being the real world, there is no easy answer to the question “why?” Work, friends, family, language, historical links to the UK and, ironically, the UK’s reputation for fairness, tolerance and welcome all play their role.

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...an interesting article 'why do the "migrants" in Calais want to come to the UK?'....


https://www.freemovement.org.uk/why-...ome-to-the-uk/

Agents were found to play a key role in the final destination:

"Some agents simply facilitated travel to a destination chosen by the asylum seeker. Other agents directed asylum seekers to particular countries without giving them any choice. Yet other agents offered asylum seekers a priced ‘menu’ of destinations from which the asylum seeker could then choose".

For those that did have an element of choice about their destination, there were a range of factors*that influenced that choice:

"These were: whether they had relatives or friends here; their belief that the UK is a safe, tolerant and democratic country; previous links between their own country and the UK including colonialism; and their ability to speak English or desire to learn it.
There was very little evidence that the sample respondents had a detailed knowledge of: UK immigration or asylum procedures; entitlements to benefits in the UK; or the availability of work in the UK. There was even less evidence that the respondents had a comparative knowledge of how these phenomena varied between different European countries. Most of the respondents wished to work and support themselves during the determination of their asylum claim rather than be dependent on the state."




Attitudes towards work for those questioned seemed to be complex. Back in 2002 the media and Home Office were obsessed with the idea that bogus asylum seekers wanted to claim benefits. These days, after our collective experience of EU migration, most of us now surely recognise that the desire to work is likely to be a more significant*motivation for migration.
The research*found that most of those questioned believed they would be*allowed to work, wanted to work and thought they would have to work:

"Many of the respondents had worked in the country of origin (and acquired skills and had careers there), and wanted to do so again when they arrived in the country where they claimed asylum. Finding a job was important because it enabled people to rebuild their lives after what had often been traumatic and disruptive experiences. It helped refugees to regain their self-respect and confidence, and to focus upon the future…"


This being the real world, there is no easy answer to the question “why?” Work, friends, family, language, historical links to the UK and, ironically, the UK’s reputation for fairness, tolerance and welcome all play their role.

written by a lawer who makes a healthy living from providing legal work on immigration?

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...an interesting article 'why do the "migrants" in Calais want to come to the UK?'....


https://www.freemovement.org.uk/why-...ome-to-the-uk/

Agents were found to play a key role in the final destination:

"Some agents simply facilitated travel to a destination chosen by the asylum seeker. Other agents directed asylum seekers to particular countries without giving them any choice. Yet other agents offered asylum seekers a priced ‘menu’ of destinations from which the asylum seeker could then choose".

For those that did have an element of choice about their destination, there were a range of factors*that influenced that choice:

"These were: whether they had relatives or friends here; their belief that the UK is a safe, tolerant and democratic country; previous links between their own country and the UK including colonialism; and their ability to speak English or desire to learn it.
There was very little evidence that the sample respondents had a detailed knowledge of: UK immigration or asylum procedures; entitlements to benefits in the UK; or the availability of work in the UK. There was even less evidence that the respondents had a comparative knowledge of how these phenomena varied between different European countries. Most of the respondents wished to work and support themselves during the determination of their asylum claim rather than be dependent on the state."




Attitudes towards work for those questioned seemed to be complex. Back in 2002 the media and Home Office were obsessed with the idea that bogus asylum seekers wanted to claim benefits. These days, after our collective experience of EU migration, most of us now surely recognise that the desire to work is likely to be a more significant*motivation for migration.
The research*found that most of those questioned believed they would be*allowed to work, wanted to work and thought they would have to work:

"Many of the respondents had worked in the country of origin (and acquired skills and had careers there), and wanted to do so again when they arrived in the country where they claimed asylum. Finding a job was important because it enabled people to rebuild their lives after what had often been traumatic and disruptive experiences. It helped refugees to regain their self-respect and confidence, and to focus upon the future…"


This being the real world, there is no easy answer to the question “why?” Work, friends, family, language, historical links to the UK and, ironically, the UK’s reputation for fairness, tolerance and welcome all play their role.

Very interesting post Ammi, thanks for sharing the article.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

written by a lawer who makes a healthy living from providing legal work on immigration?

I think you can be a bit cynical, there are obviously those who want to come to UK because they perceive a better life here economically and not because they have been displaced by war but in fairness that is only the case some of the time. Definitely not a of the time.

[Ammi]

...who ever wrote it though, the responses had no agenda other than striving and struggling for a better quality of life and the risks taken to try to find that...I guess that we can either look at those young men who are seeking for employment and and to offer the skills that they may have and see how much we can accommodate...?..or we can just slam the door in faces in the assumption that most mean harm to us...

[Ammi]

..it's ironic with so much news media working against them../to vilify them..that they still see the UK as their 'haven' and a possible future for them and their families...

[Toy Soldier]

My question is... who WOULDN'T be seeking the best life for themselves and for their family? I know that's separate to the actual practicalities of it - obviously there is a limit to what is feasible - but still... the accusations that fly around seem to suggest that people seeking access to the country are somehow "immoral" for seeking it, which is, of course, nonsense. If this country was to crumble tomorrow, you can bet your arse that I would be trying to get myself and my family not only to the first safe place, but to somewhere that we could actually build a life. And there's not a lot I wouldn't be willing to "lie about" to make that happen .

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...who ever wrote it though, the responses had no agenda other than striving and struggling for a better quality of life and the risks taken to try to find that...I guess that we can either look at those young men who are seeking for employment and and to offer the skills that they may have and see how much we can accommodate...?..or we can just slam the door in faces in the assumption that most mean harm to us...

So how would you work out if any are say from ISIS with a penchant for lorry driving?

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

My question is... who WOULDN'T be seeking the best life for themselves and for their family? I know that's separate to the actual practicalities of it - obviously there is a limit to what is feasible - but still... the accusations that fly around seem to suggest that people seeking access to the country are somehow "immoral" for seeking it, which is, of course, nonsense. If this country was to crumble tomorrow, you can bet your arse that I would be trying to get myself and my family not only to the first safe place, but to somewhere that we could actually build a life. And there's not a lot I wouldn't be willing to "lie about" to make that happen .

...yeah but the media fights so much against that even being assessed, how we can accommodate/how many and what can we offer in employment etc in favour of scaremongering and just keep them all out..let's not even consider balance of those who only seek refuge...

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

My question is... who WOULDN'T be seeking the best life for themselves and for their family? I know that's separate to the actual practicalities of it - obviously there is a limit to what is feasible - but still... the accusations that fly around seem to suggest that people seeking access to the country are somehow "immoral" for seeking it, which is, of course, nonsense. If this country was to crumble tomorrow, you can bet your arse that I would be trying to get myself and my family not only to the first safe place, but to somewhere that we could actually build a life. And there's not a lot I wouldn't be willing to "lie about" to make that happen .

Thats great TS and you would expect ant decent country to have rules and strict guidlines about who they let in?

[LeatherTrumpet]

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/...t-asylum-boats



Australian success story

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

So how would you work out if any are say from ISIS with a penchant for lorry driving?

..I really don't feel that you're interested in any balance of genuine with this, of those who are not as fortunate as us and whose lives fairly much suck in despair or any mind-set other than yours....because if you were then the question that would have been asked is... where is the proof with the young men in the OP or any young men migrants that they mean us harm or that they have any link to ISIS...where is the proof that suspicion is necessary...

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..I really don't feel that you're interested in any balance of genuine with this, of those who are not as fortunate as us and whose lives fairly much suck in despair or any mind-set other than yours....because if you were then the question that would have been asked is... where is the proof with the young men in the OP or any young men migrants that they mean us harm or that they have any link to ISIS...where is the proof that suspicion is necessary...

Id probably listen to the head of Europol?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-Interpol.html


I am happy to help genuine folk in genuine need but everyone must be checked very carefully. If I was living in the south of England I dont think id want my 14 year old daughter doing double maths with a 35 year old man from Afghanistan who may have a criminal record

[Withano]

This is a computers take on Englands under 17 squad

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Id probably listen to the head of Europol?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-Interpol.html


I am happy to help genuine folk in genuine need but everyone must be checked very carefully. If I was living in the south of England I dont think id want my 14 year old daughter doing double maths with a 35 year old man from Afghanistan who may have a criminal record

..the words of the Head of Europol...


‘We can expect [ISIS] or other religious terror groups to stage an attack somewhere in Europe with the aim of achieving mass casualties among the civilian population.’
He added that the increasing number ‘presents EU member states with completely new challenges’.

But he insisted that claims terrorists are using the migrant crisis to sneak into Europe disguised as asylum-seekers have been exaggerated.
‘There is no concrete evidence terrorists are systematically using the flow of refugees to infiltrate Europe,’ he said.*




..I don't think it's surprising that ages are not always revealed truthfully when the media portrayal is so much BEWARE THE YOUNG MALE.../I think that untruthfulness is something that this country's media themselves have responsibility for in their scaremongering and vilification....

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Withano

This is a computers take on Englands under 17 squad

precisely why we cant take any risks and why proof of age is required in the UK to buy alcohol and fags

[Withano]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

precisely why we cant take any risks and why proof of age is required in the UK to buy alcohol and fags

Yeh.. But more importantly, its why we should dismiss Daily Mails computer analysis.

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Withano

Yeh.. But more importantly, its why we should dismiss Daily Mails computer analysis.

No one is using it as anything other than illustrative but did you note that in 2015 66% lied about their age

You just cannot take what they say as true

[Withano]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

You just cannot take what they say as true

Maybe you can't, I can do what I like.

I don't care what age they are, but 34% telling the truth is better than the ~0% reliability of daily mails computer analysis, so thats where logic tells us to start until we find a better way.

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Withano

Maybe you can't, I can do what I like.

I don't care what age they are, but 34% telling the truth is better than the ~0% reliability of daily mails computer analysis, so thats where logic tells us to start until we find a better way.

Yes sadly dental records are not accurate either, there must be a way to tell?

[Johnnyuk123]

Even Stevie Wonder can see right through their claims to be teenagers. It's that obvious.