[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Again, you may be right. I definitely do not believe they deliberately harmed her - why would they and what evidence is there for that?

If there was some kind of accident that they covered up I don't believe Maddie, if she understood, would want them to go to jail for years and leave her brother and sister without their parents. If an accident I think they have all suffered enough.

It wouldn't make their actions right or forgivable but to hang them out to dry would benefit no one in my opinion.

I don't believe they deliberately harmed her either but I certainly believe the truth should come out and they should face justice. Not only have they covered it up but look at all the money they've wasted, that's your money, tax payers money and it runs in to the millions now not to mention they tried to ruin Goncalo Amarals life as well, they need to face justice for all of those things imo

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

There is absolutely no proof of abduction besides Kates word that the window was open, even though the bright sparks closed the window before police came, allegedly

I don't understand why Scotland Yard are pissing about. I am starting to think they only want funding so they can go lounge around in a hot country and be paid for it tbh. The whole investigation is a disgrace. Surely the police aren't as thick as they appear. It was OUR police who sent in the dogs...so they must have had an idea way back then what happened ffs. Its all so irritating now. Either charge the guilty ones or leave the damn thing alone. Stop expecting people to believe this bull**** about burglaries gone wrong and stuff. Burglars do not take dead children...or live children. 'Nothing of value was taken' says Gerry. Odd burglars eh?

The abduction theory is the 'conspiracy' in this case IMO. As 'conspiracies' have no evidence and actually go against evidence. In this case the only evidence available says the child died in that apartment. Make of that what you will but the abduction theory is just ridiculous and based on nothing but the McCanns word. No wonder police abandoned that line of thinking pretty early on as it became obvious it was bull.

I think I love Pat Brown.

She makes a great point here too Vicky :

Ms Brown said it was “extremely unlikely” anyone from a child sex ring would have abducted Madeleine. She said children could be illegally bought in some poor areas or “easily taken from drug addicts and prostitutes”.
“Even blonde ones,” she said.
‘They’re not going to steal a British tourist from a holiday resort because they know that will prompt a major investigation into them.”

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/rea...6b6a40fe4b5205

[Glenn.]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

'Nothing of value was taken' says Gerry. Odd burglars eh?

Poor Maddie

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I don't believe they deliberately harmed her either but I certainly believe the truth should come out and they should face justice. Not only have they covered it up but look at all the money they've wasted, that's your money, tax payers money and it runs in to the millions now not to mention they tried to ruin Goncalo Amarals life as well, they need to face justice for all of those things imo

That's my thinking really. I think it was an accident and if it had all come out at the time, I would feel awful for them as parents. I'd be pretty horrified about them going out and leaving the kids etc. but losing a child is worse than any prison sentence or other punishment so I wouldn't be that concerned about them facing the full force of the law.

But for everything they've done since? Something has to come of that. The message that covering something up, to this extent, is in any way OK... can't be allowed.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

That's my thinking really. I think it was an accident and if it had all come out at the time, I would feel awful for them as parents. I'd be pretty horrified about them going out and leaving the kids etc. but losing a child is worse than any prison sentence or other punishment so I wouldn't be that concerned about them facing the full force of the law.

But for everything they've done since? Something has to come of that. The message that covering something up, to this extent, is in any way OK... can't be allowed.

Exactly and it wouldn't have been either if it were a couple from a council estate or something

[Smithy]

Originally Posted by Glenn.

Poor Maddie

Ffs

[ebandit]

..............what sort of accident within the apartment could lead to death?

..............accident would more likely result in injury /need for urgent medical assistance

Mark L

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by ebandit

..............what sort of accident within the apartment could lead to death?

..............accident would more likely result in injury /need for urgent medical assistance

Mark L

She could have fallen off the back of the couch and hit her head off the tiled floor or broken her neck. Behind the couch is where blood splatter and cadaver odour was found by the dogs

[ebandit]

..............to myself that seems very unlikely....such a short fall

................you see kiddies fall further all the time...cry awhile then run on

Mark L

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by ebandit

..............to myself that seems very unlikely....such a short fall

................you see kiddies fall further all the time...cry awhile then run on

Mark L

Just because 9 times out of 10 a fall won't kill a child doesn't mean that it never happens, in fact I would say it's far more common than a stranger breaking into an apartment and kidnapping a child She could have landed awkwardly and the floor was tiled

[Vicky.]

Yup. Fall from sofa (while sedated, IMO..the reason for the coverup) is far more likely than the houdini abductor who also shuffled his way between the twins' cots to open a window for no reason at all...just to waste some time even though he came in through the open door...that had been left open incase madeleine awoke and wanted to find her parents, though it is claimed that NO WAY would she have been able to leave the place on her own

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Yup. Fall from sofa (while sedated, IMO..the reason for the coverup) is far more likely than the houdini abductor who also shuffled his way between the twins' cots to open a window for no reason at all...just to waste some time even though he came in through the open door...that had been left open incase madeleine awoke and wanted to find her parents, though it is claimed that NO WAY would she have been able to leave the place on her own

a mass of contradictions

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Yup. Fall from sofa (while sedated, IMO..the reason for the coverup) is far more likely than the houdini abductor who also shuffled his way between the twins' cots to open a window for no reason at all...just to waste some time even though he came in through the open door...that had been left open incase madeleine awoke and wanted to find her parents, though it is claimed that NO WAY would she have been able to leave the place on her own

exactly

[chuff me dizzy]

From night 1 there was political interference in the McCann case ( Why no one knows,but it happened ) without the help they would have been locked up 10 yrs ago

As for Pat Brown ( a woman Ive had lots of conversations with ) Im not a fan, she pops in and out of the Maddie case when it suits her

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Yup. Fall from sofa (while sedated, IMO..the reason for the coverup) is far more likely than the houdini abductor who also shuffled his way between the twins' cots to open a window for no reason at all...just to waste some time even though he came in through the open door...that had been left open incase madeleine awoke and wanted to find her parents, though it is claimed that NO WAY would she have been able to leave the place on her own

IMO Maddie was abused (Payne ,Gaspar statements )this is why her medical records have never been shown and explains the fear and embarrassment in her face in the Snow White video ,I think Kate lashed out at her in temper ,knocking her behind the sofa where blood splatter was found

[ebandit]

................i too think the parents are more directly responsible............

imagine? the parents arriving home to find maddie injured/dead

.......they panic! unlikely they would panic! and think 'let's cover this up'

more likely...they panic! and rush maddie to nearest medical centre

even if there was no pulse a parent would hope for resuscitation even when hope

is gone................

Mark L

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by ebandit

................i too think the parents are more directly responsible............

imagine? the parents arriving home to find maddie injured/dead

.......they panic! unlikely they would panic! and think 'let's cover this up'

more likely...they panic! and rush maddie to nearest medical centre

even if there was no pulse a parent would hope for resuscitation even when hope

is gone................

Mark L

Most parents would yes but that doesnt mean all would

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by chuff me dizzy

IMO Maddie was abused (Payne ,Gaspar statements )this is why her medical records have never been shown and explains the fear and embarrassment in her face in the Snow White video ,I think Kate lashed out at her in temper ,knocking her behind the sofa where blood splatter was found

That is a hell of an accusation and completely unfounded as far as I can see.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by ebandit

................i too think the parents are more directly responsible............

imagine? the parents arriving home to find maddie injured/dead

.......they panic! unlikely they would panic! and think 'let's cover this up'

more likely...they panic! and rush maddie to nearest medical centre

even if there was no pulse a parent would hope for resuscitation even when hope

is gone................

Mark L

Really depends. IF they sedated the kids so they could go out on the piss this would show in an autopsy. Kate thought the kids had been drugged apparently yet did not take them to the hospital for tests. How likely is this? A parent thinks their babies have been given unknown drugs by a stranger but doesn't get them checked? If kids were proven sedated, thats both parents jobs over and twins possibly taken from them too.

Normal parents upon discovering an accident would call the ambulance. (IMO again) but these parents had something to hide. Something that could well ruin their lives and the lives of their remaining children.

As chuff said too, there is the chance of sexual abuse. Another reason to not want an autopsy. I haven't thought about the sexual abuse side much as its just a horrible thought but there is definitely something dodgy about their friend David Payne. The Gaspar statements pretty much pin him as a creepy ****er at the very least. then there was a social worker (Yvonne Martin I believe) who recognized Payne from her line of work...child protection.

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

That is a hell of an accusation and completely unfounded as far as I can see.

Ive been in Maddie groups for over 9 years, my theory is not a whim plucked out of mid air

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Really depends. IF they sedated the kids so they could go out on the piss this would show in an autopsy. Kate thought the kids had been drugged apparently yet did not take them to the hospital for tests. How likely is this? A parent thinks their babies have been given unknown drugs by a stranger but doesn't get them checked? If kids were proven sedated, thats both parents jobs over and twins possibly taken from them too.

Normal parents upon discovering an accident would call the ambulance. (IMO again) but these parents had something to hide. Something that could well ruin their lives and the lives of their remaining children.

As chuff said too, there is the chance of sexual abuse. Another reason to not want an autopsy. I haven't thought about the sexual abuse side much as its just a horrible thought but there is definitely something dodgy about their friend David Payne. The Gaspar statements pretty much pin him as a creepy ****er at the very least. then there was a social worker (Yvonne Martin I believe) who recognized Payne from her line of work...child protection.

Yes you're right on Yvonne Martin ,Payne took Mcs to one side and they came back and told her they didn't want her help
As for the drugging ,Kate refused to have the twins hair tested for 11 months ( the time it takes to get out of your system ) But i think twins were drugged as they woke up when Maddie died and being hid, so given something to knock them out
Watch the Snow White video, watch how Maddie looks up ,then lowers her eyes and chews her lip https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WaNMPZJ1jw Clearly scared of or embarrassed by the man with the camera, believed to be film maker Corner

[ebandit]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Most parents would yes but that doesnt mean all would

you're right................most parents would have cracked under pressure sooner?

.............if the mc canns had sedated maddie with something a whole lot stronger that what has been suggested

then they might wish to cover up

Mark L

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

I'm not sure but I don't Ben's mother wasn't present at the time he disappeared - wasn't he at his grandparents?

Madelienes mother wasn't present either

[longstar]

the Mccanns are being protected by the government because they are in a high respected jobs of society, and they have friends that are rich and powerful, they where close friends of clement freud, and he had a flat near where maddie had disappeared, and he was cooking meals for the mccain family when they went on holiday at the time, its well clear that the mccains knew about the pre-planned abduction, why leave the patio door's unlocked and then tell a cock an bull story that who took her went threw the small window that would never fit even the smallest human adult, the drugging of maddie seems too have her stopped from screaming or crying, and the emails of clement freud and kate and gerry Mccann where deleted, and now the police are launching a probe into what he knew about it, its clear that alot of people knew what really happened to her, but the police can't arrest them for it, fred clement is dead but they only tell now about what he knew,

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by ebandit

you're right................most parents would have cracked under pressure sooner?

.............if the mc canns had sedated maddie with something a whole lot stronger that what has been suggested

then they might wish to cover up

Mark L

Kate is an anesthest as far as I'm aware