[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

The Independent, what a surprise. Biased rubbish.

yeah, your buzzfeed article gets discredited and it's the indys fault :/

[JTM45]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

It wasn't a lie though. It was made by Farage, who wasn't and isn't in a position to dictate policy. It was a suggestion.

Wrong AGAIN!!!!
There was never the option or possibility of £350 million being given to the NHS but the Leave Campaign toured the country with a bus with this claim splashed on its side. Boris used it as an event backdrop. It was a ''suggestion'' that was based on fantasy and was never an option. It was a lie.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by jaxie

If you believed Brexit was Brexit then you should understand that Brexit means British exit. You exit by leaving with both feet and closing the door behind you, you don't exit by leaving the door open and standing in the doorway.

There is no hard or soft option there two options, stay or leave. We voted to leave.

100% correct Jaxie!

Remoaners just want to stall and reverse the process. The behaviour of remoaners over Brexit is sickening. They are determined to twist Brexit out of all recognition to get what they want and even attempt to deny their clear lack of respect for a public vote.

It is all about them and what they want regardless of the vote with the painfully weak argument that people didn't know what they were voting for. Cringeworthy!!!

[JTM45]

From the Independent;

'Brexit: Support for a second EU referendum is growing, finds poll'
According to the results, more people also believed Brexit would have a 'negative' rather than 'positive' impact on the British economy.

Support is growing for a second European Union referendum once the final terms of the Brexit deal are clear, according to a new poll that suggests a third of the public now back the proposition.

The survey by ICM pollsters for the Guardian found that momentum is growing around idea of a second referendum – advocated by the Liberal Democrats and the Green party – to hold another vote in two years’ time when ministers present the final deal on Britain’s exit to the public.

When respondents were provided with the statement “a second referendum to allow people to decide whether the UK leaves or not, based on the outcome of the negotiations”, 32 per cent said they agreed – a six point increase on the same survey six months’ ago.

The poll came after David Davis, the Brexit Secretary, entered the second round of negotiations in Brussels but was criticised for taking part in less than a hour of discussions with Michel Barnier, the EU’s chief negotiator. Shortly after declaring it was “time to get back to work”, Mr Davis had returned to London.

According to the results, more people also believed Brexit would have a “negative” rather than “positive” impact on the British economy, with 42 per cent and 29 per cent respectively.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by JTM45

From the Independent;

The Independent are the biggest remoaners of all. They twist for all they are worth to present 'journalism' of the one-sided kind.

btw - The whole article rather than a snippet would be preferable. Gives a clearer picture.

[JTM45]

As far as i'm aware it was the whole article.

You're hardly in a position to criticize anyone's sources considering what you quote and from where. Buzzfeed my ass!

We will not be leaving the EU in anything but a symbolical manner (if at all). Believe.
The government are going to take notice of the Banks and Industry over a minority of the British public.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by jaxie

If you believed Brexit was Brexit then you should understand that Brexit means British exit. You exit by leaving with both feet and closing the door behind you, you don't exit by leaving the door open and standing in the doorway.

There is no hard or soft option there two options, stay or leave. We voted to leave.

You need to pay attention and stop being so pedantic. Do you want to discuss the realities of this political decision on how we exit and fruitfully exist outside Europe or do you want to continue pigeonholing the dictionary definition in an attempt to win an argument at any cost? If it’s the later then I refuse to entertain you further.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

100% correct Jaxie!

Remoaners just want to stall and reverse the process. The behaviour of remoaners over Brexit is sickening. They are determined to twist Brexit out of all recognition to get what they want and even attempt to deny their clear lack of respect for a public vote.

It is all about them and what they want regardless of the vote with the painfully weak argument that people didn't know what they were voting for. Cringeworthy!!!

By ‘remoaner’ I assume you mean someone who wishes to remain? and as you quoted Jaxie’s reply to me, your reply, in part is at me. I didn’t vote to remain. I have no desire to remain or reverse the process.

Please explain what you mean by “they are determined to twist Brexit out of all recognition” Tell us what clarity we had about Brexit before we voted and then think, if you can spare the time, how that process has changed. Of course people didn’t know what they were voting for. Some naively believed it was going to stop immigrants coming in! others, like me, believed it was going to halt America's shenanigans on our shores and some believed it was going to rescue our NHS and guess what, we were wrong. But even then, even after it dawned on us that we’d been had, most of us still accepted the democratic vote… but we did and rightly so, want a process put in place (at the time there was no real process. All of that came later) that would safeguard our businesses, our human rights, our children’s futures and a better future outside Europe. Don't you want that too.. don't you?

You may well cringe at these people, and you may have the audacity to call them names and spit your naive bile at them whilst appearing not to know or understand any of the complexities of Brexit options. You just want to walk out, close the door and be done and anyone who doesn’t think like you are unpatriotic, undemocratic and foolish.

Yeah right!

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by JTM45

As far as i'm aware it was the whole article.

You're hardly in a position to criticize anyone's sources considering what you quote and from where. Buzzfeed my ass!

We will not be leaving the EU in anything but a symbolical manner (if at all). Believe.
The government are going to take notice of the Banks and Industry over a minority of the British public.

That was my first ever quote from buzzfeed. But the source is was taking its information from was good- hence why I quoted it.

As for the rest of it - wishful thinking?

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

That was my first ever quote from buzzfeed. But the source is was taking its information from was good- hence why I quoted it.

As for the rest of it - wishful thinking?

The data was misinterpreted, strangely it was the very part you based this thread on that 29% of remainers now want EU members to leave... They don't.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

You need to pay attention and stop being so pedantic. Do you want to discuss the realities of this political decision on how we exit and fruitfully exist outside Europe or do you want to continue pigeonholing the dictionary definition in an attempt to win an argument at any cost? If it’s the later then I refuse to entertain you further.

Nice deflect. What has the dictionary got to do with it? I was discussing the realities of what it means to exit, which you voted for. That's the reality it's not about how you exit. You exit and negotiate a new relationship based on the fact you are no longer a member. We exist fruitfully outside the EU in similar way to the rest of the world who aren't members of the EU. You don't have to respond to me to entertain me. The idea that because we are leaving the EU that children will have no future and business will die is just scaremongering.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

The data was misinterpreted, strangely it was the very part you based this thread on that 29% of remainers now want EU members to leave... They don't.

Says who - the Independent? Gospel then.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Says who - the Independent? Gospel then.

No, the statisticians who have analysed the data sets ... You really mustn't let your prejudice against the Independent colour your view here brillo.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

100% correct Jaxie!

Remoaners just want to stall and reverse the process. The behaviour of remoaners over Brexit is sickening. They are determined to twist Brexit out of all recognition to get what they want and even attempt to deny their clear lack of respect for a public vote.

It is all about them and what they want regardless of the vote with the painfully weak argument that people didn't know what they were voting for. Cringeworthy!!!

Didn't you get on a high horse about my opinion of voters? Do you completely lack any self awareness? Because acting self righteous over me saying that most voters vote in ignorance and saying that I shouldn't say things like that and THEN spouting that bull**** about Remainers is so hypocritical that I cannot believe you are unaware of it.

Don't take the moral high ground if you aren't willing to commit to it yourself, Brillo.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Didn't you get on a high horse about my opinion of voters? Do you completely lack any self awareness? Because acting self righteous over me saying that most voters vote in ignorance and saying that I shouldn't say things like that and THEN spouting that bull**** about Remainers is so hypocritical that I cannot believe you are unaware of it.

Don't take the moral high ground if you aren't willing to commit to it yourself, Brillo.

Maybe I have just decided to do unto others as they do unto me. What don't you like a taste of your own medicine? What a shock!

You talk of self awareness - really. You are the very last person I would take seriously when spouting a comment like that.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Maybe I have just decided to do unto others as they do unto me. What don't you like a taste of your own medicine? What a shock!

You talk of self awareness - really. You are the very last person I would take seriously when spouting a comment like that.

Ah, so you take the moral high ground towards people you disagree with when it suits you but you never intend to actually hold yourself to those same standards. It's a bit like your attitude towards human rights and freedom of speech isn't it? You only want them to apply to people who share your views and no one else.

Trying to reflect it back at me doesn't work since I didn't get on a high horse and act offended in order to discredit opposing opinions in the first place but you and Jaxie did in response to what I said. Reflecting would only work if I took the moral high ground to begin with so commiserations on another failed attempt to one up me.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Ah, so you take the moral high ground towards people you disagree with when it suits you but you never intend to actually hold yourself to those same standards. It's a bit like your attitude towards human rights and freedom of speech isn't it? You only want them to apply to people who share your views and no one else.

Trying to reflect it back at me doesn't work since I didn't get on a high horse and act offended in order to discredit opposing opinions in the first place but you and Jaxie did in response to what I said. Reflecting would only work if I took the moral high ground to begin with so commiserations on another failed attempt to one up me.

Since you brought me up while on your high horse, read everything you said and then apply to self.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by jaxie

Nice deflect. What has the dictionary got to do with it? I was discussing the realities of what it means to exit, which you voted for. That's the reality it's not about how you exit. You exit and negotiate a new relationship based on the fact you are no longer a member. We exist fruitfully outside the EU in similar way to the rest of the world who aren't members of the EU. You don't have to respond to me to entertain me. The idea that because we are leaving the EU that children will have no future and business will die is just scaremongering.

Just accept that your realities are very different to mine. If you think walking through that exit door is all going to come together like milk and honey, just keep telling yourself that.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Ah, so you take the moral high ground towards people you disagree with when it suits you but you never intend to actually hold yourself to those same standards. It's a bit like your attitude towards human rights and freedom of speech isn't it? You only want them to apply to people who share your views and no one else.

Trying to reflect it back at me doesn't work since I didn't get on a high horse and act offended in order to discredit opposing opinions in the first place but you and Jaxie did in response to what I said. Reflecting would only work if I took the moral high ground to begin with so commiserations on another failed attempt to one up me.

You take the moral high ground all the time - you just don't see it. It's that lack of self awareness I was referring to.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

No, the statisticians who have analysed the data sets ... You really mustn't let your prejudice against the Independent colour your view here brillo.

And your obsessive prejudice against the Mail!!! You even wanted to ban it from the forum. Pot and kettle!

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

And your obsessive prejudice against the Mail!!! You even wanted to ban it from the forum. Pot and kettle!

What has this to do with me or the mail?... Nothing.

Am I to excuse you from your bias against the independent due to my dislike of the daily mail?

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

By ‘remoaner’ I assume you mean someone who wishes to remain? and as you quoted Jaxie’s reply to me, your reply, in part is at me. I didn’t vote to remain. I have no desire to remain or reverse the process.

Please explain what you mean by “they are determined to twist Brexit out of all recognition” Tell us what clarity we had about Brexit before we voted and then think, if you can spare the time, how that process has changed. Of course people didn’t know what they were voting for. Some naively believed it was going to stop immigrants coming in! others, like me, believed it was going to halt America's shenanigans on our shores and some believed it was going to rescue our NHS and guess what, we were wrong. But even then, even after it dawned on us that we’d been had, most of us still accepted the democratic vote… but we did and rightly so, want a process put in place (at the time there was no real process. All of that came later) that would safeguard our businesses, our human rights, our children’s futures and a better future outside Europe. Don't you want that too.. don't you?

You may well cringe at these people, and you may have the audacity to call them names and spit your naive bile at them whilst appearing not to know or understand any of the complexities of Brexit options. You just want to walk out, close the door and be done and anyone who doesn’t think like you are unpatriotic, undemocratic and foolish.

Yeah right!

By remoaners I mean the refusal of some to accept the vote. People of course are entitled to want to remain, just as others are entitled to want to leave - the issue is about those that keep sulking because the vote didn't go the way they wanted it to and who keep trying to sabotage a public vote.

The decision to leave has been made and we now have to get on with the finer points of the process - and no that does not mean staying in the EU and trying to dress it up as a soft Brexit. Brexit was about leaving the EU not about keeping one foot in it and keeping our options open.

And yes I am aware of the potential problems, the complexities as you put it thank you, but Nothing worth having comes easy. There are plenty of countries wanting to trade with us as And a lot of support from other countries. Whether you want to admit it or not there is a lot of dissatisfaction with the EU and its controlling policies from many other European countries and unless it changes its stance I believe it has had its day.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

You take the moral high ground all the time - you just don't see it. It's that lack of self awareness I was referring to.

Parroting doesn't make for a compelling argument. Put more effort into it because anyone can just repeat what's been said to them.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

By remoaners I mean the refusal of some to accept the vote. People of course are entitled to want to remain, just as others are entitled to want to leave - the issue is about those that keep sulking because the vote didn't go the way they wanted it to and who keep trying to sabotage a public vote.

The decision to leave has been made and we now have to get on with the finer points of the process - and no that does not mean staying in the EU and trying to dress it up as a soft Brexit. Brexit was about leaving the EU not about keeping one foot in it and keeping our options open.

And yes I am aware of the potential problems, the complexities as you put it thank you, but Nothing worth having comes easy. There are plenty of countries wanting to trade with us as And a lot of support from other countries. Whether you want to admit it or not there is a lot of dissatisfaction with the EU and its controlling policies from many other European countries and unless it changes its stance I believe it has had its day.

So the issue is with people who are unhappy with the result and imaginary people trying to 'sabotage' brexit?

The second bolded point highlights the fact that you do not understand what the referendum was. The referendum simply asked whether we should remain in the EU or not. It didn't clarify whether the people wanted a soft or hard brexit so by claiming the latter you are ironically speaking for the motivations of all voters, something you got upset about a few pages earlier when made my first post in this thread saying that most voters don't understand what they voted for....you also proved me right in that regard so thank you for that.

People voted for a brexit, not what kind of brexit they want and they've only got themselves to blame if we do have a soft brexit as they voted in a weak government when they had the opportunity to change things up.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

By remoaners I mean the refusal of some to accept the vote. People of course are entitled to want to remain, just as others are entitled to want to leave - the issue is about those that keep sulking because the vote didn't go the way they wanted it to and who keep trying to sabotage a public vote.

The decision to leave has been made and we now have to get on with the finer points of the process - and no that does not mean staying in the EU and trying to dress it up as a soft Brexit. Brexit was about leaving the EU not about keeping one foot in it and keeping our options open.

And yes I am aware of the potential problems, the complexities as you put it thank you, but Nothing worth having comes easy. There are plenty of countries wanting to trade with us as And a lot of support from other countries. Whether you want to admit it or not there is a lot of dissatisfaction with the EU and its controlling policies from many other European countries and unless it changes its stance I believe it has had its day.

I mix with a lot of people and I don’t know anyone who doesn’t accept the vote. Come to think of it, I don’t know anyone on here who doesn't accept the vote. Sure, some aren’t happy with the outcome but we can hardly liken their unhappiness to childish sulking. This whole thing is fcuking serious stuff, its going to affect people’s livelihoods and its going to uproot entire families. You call it sulking, I call it concern and in fairness to them, they have every right to be worried.

So here are the options https://www.ft.com/content/52fb4998-...d-c19e2700005f which includes the winners and the losers…. There is no option 7. Brexit, though I think Jaxie and you disagree, is all about political matters and those matters should certainly be up for discussion.

So no, leaving the EU and slamming the door on our way out was never the only option on the table.