[jaxie]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

Just accept that your realities are very different to mine. If you think walking through that exit door is all going to come together like milk and honey, just keep telling yourself that.

I've never said anything about milk and honey, or slamming doors come to that, I said you leave and close the door behind you, then you negotiate a new relationship. No big change is without some sacrifice but that doesn't mean it is going to be all gloom and doom either or that we should stay in a cocoon that is not right for us. I am completely confident that this is the right thing if I wasn't I would have taken the easy route and voted to stay in the rickety boat that is the EU.

I am mystified why you voted to leave when you seem so afraid of it now and why you find it so terrifying when the signs indicate nothing particularly terrible has happened inspite of the doom and gloom predictions. For instance reports today on BBC news say that UK unemployment is at a 42 year low. Consumer price inflation seems to be holding steady and bucking expectations. UK wage expectations grow by better than expected. The Outlook is currently positive.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Parroting doesn't make for a compelling argument. Put more effort into it because anyone can just repeat what's been said to them.

And you would know!!

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

So the issue is with people who are unhappy with the result and imaginary people trying to 'sabotage' brexit?

The second bolded point highlights the fact that you do not understand what the referendum was. The referendum simply asked whether we should remain in the EU or not. It didn't clarify whether the people wanted a soft or hard brexit so by claiming the latter you are ironically speaking for the motivations of all voters, something you got upset about a few pages earlier when made my first post in this thread saying that most voters don't understand what they voted for....you also proved me right in that regard so thank you for that.

People voted for a brexit, not what kind of brexit they want and they've only got themselves to blame if we do have a soft brexit as they voted in a weak government when they had the opportunity to change things up.

https://www.theguardian.com/books/20...to-stop-brexit

The link above is just one example of someone trying to sabotage Brexit along with some newspapers i.e. The guardian and independent and countless others who constantly harp on about reversing Brexit. Do you understand that now or am I imagining that too!

You also don't seem to understand that your 'hero' Corbyn supports a hard Brexit and always has. Maybe you should do a bit of reading up about the man.

It really isn't a good look to keep trying to undermine people by accusing them of failing to 'understand' this that and the other when your level of understanding is clearly not as 'up there' as you try to imply. You are not the only one trying that on and not only is it weak it smacks of desperation. Understand that!

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

And you would know!!

More parroting, I don't think you are capable of coming up with a reply of substance.

I'll save you the bother of replying since you'll end up responding with something among the likes 'Well neither are you!'' or something equally inane. This is predictable and boring. I know what you're going to say before you say it.

Originally Posted by Brillopad

https://www.theguardian.com/books/20...to-stop-brexit

The link above is just one example of someone trying to sabotage Brexit along with some newspapers i.e. The guardian and independent and countless others who constantly harp on about reversing Brexit. Do you understand that now or am I imagining that too!

You also don't seem to understand that your 'hero' Corbyn supports a hard Brexit and always has. Maybe you should do a bit of reading up about the man.

It really isn't a good look to keep trying to undermine people by accusing them of failing to 'understand' this that and the other when your level of understanding is clearly not as 'up there' as you try to imply. You are not the only one trying that on and not only is it weak it smacks of desperation. Understand that!

Ah, you're taking the book equivalent of a click bait article written by an irrelevant politician whose time has passed and is desperate to regain some sense of relevancy seriously? Straws, Brillo, don't grasp at them so tightly.

That Guardian article did it's job, it's meant to rile up gullible Leavers into a rage hence the bias language throughout. Brexit is going to happen and no amount of scaremongering so you have an excuse to blame the left/immigrants/minority groups/remainers will change that.

You are getting a brexit but it won't be the one you want and it's what the Leavers deserve for voting in the Tories despite the fact that they've gone back on everything they've said since May took charge. The red flags were there all along and voters ignored them because they'd rather believe in the fantasy May was peddling than the reality.

Ah, the obligatory 'I am losing the argument so I'm gonna bring up Corbyn' defense. Again, one of my main arguments during the election was that if people truly wanted a hard brexit then they should support Labour BECAUSE Corbyn wanted brexit all along and his cabinet would be less likely to bend to the EU as soon as things get difficult. You should pay more attention, Brillo. You've gone beyond parroting and now you're trying to rewrite history and take my arguments as your own. Make your own arguments and stop piggy backing off others.

It's not a good look to constantly contradict yourself but that doesn't stop you, does it? You showed us all a fundamental lack of understanding of what the referendum was and what it meant. Like I said before, the referendum was to gauge interest in a brexit, not to decide what kind of Brexit it would be and in doing so you contradicted yourself by speaking for the intent of all leavers when you previously acted high and mighty when I suggested that most voters were ignorant and backed it up with logic that hasn't been overcome by you or your friends.

Again, that last paragraph was basically nothing but parroting what's been said to you. It's just sad at this point. I just don't think you can come up with your own thoughts and views without an article telling you what to think or repeating what other people have said to you. It's quite pointless speaking to you, you're never going to come up with a good argument because all you seem to be capable of doing is repeating what has been said.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

More parroting, I don't think you are capable of coming up with a reply of substance.

I'll save you the bother of replying since you'll end up responding with something among the likes 'Well neither are you!'' or something equally inane. This is predictable and boring. I know what you're going to say before you say it.



Ah, you're taking the book equivalent of a click bait article written by an irrelevant politician whose time has passed and is desperate to regain some sense of relevancy seriously? Straws, Brillo, don't grasp at them so tightly.

That Guardian article did it's job, it's meant to rile up gullible Leavers into a rage hence the bias language throughout. Brexit is going to happen and no amount of scaremongering so you have an excuse to blame the left/immigrants/minority groups/remainers will change that.

You are getting a brexit but it won't be the one you want and it's what the Leavers deserve for voting in the Tories despite the fact that they've gone back on everything they've said since May took charge. The red flags were there all along and voters ignored them because they'd rather believe in the fantasy May was peddling than the reality.

Ah, the obligatory 'I am losing the argument so I'm gonna bring up Corbyn' defense. Again, one of my main arguments during the election was that if people truly wanted a hard brexit then they should support Labour BECAUSE Corbyn wanted brexit all along and his cabinet would be less likely to bend to the EU as soon as things get difficult. You should pay more attention, Brillo. You've gone beyond parroting and now you're trying to rewrite history and take my arguments as your own. Make your own arguments and stop piggy backing off others.

It's not a good look to constantly contradict yourself but that doesn't stop you, does it? You showed us all a fundamental lack of understanding of what the referendum was and what it meant. Like I said before, the referendum was to gauge interest in a brexit, not to decide what kind of Brexit it would be and in doing so you contradicted yourself by speaking for the intent of all leavers when you previously acted high and mighty when I suggested that most voters were ignorant and backed it up with logic that hasn't been overcome by you or your friends.

Again, that last paragraph was basically nothing but parroting what's been said to you. It's just sad at this point. I just don't think you can come up with your own thoughts and views without an article telling you what to think or repeating what other people have said to you. It's quite pointless speaking to you, you're never going to come up with a good argument because all you seem to be capable of doing is repeating what has been said.

As I said, in case you missed the point again, it was one example, one that presented itself as current news today. There are plenty of other examples out there, we all know it even if you don't.

The referendum was in or out. A soft Brexit would not be out - it would be the equivalent of doing the splits and keeping a foot in each camp.

As for the rest of it I really can't be bothered. It is just more of your insults and attempting to have the last word believing your last word is full of knowledge and wisdom. Sorry, it just isn't.

As for the parroting thing you keep throwing at me in an attempt to shut me down it just makes it obvious that that is your get out clause. Your arguments are weak and your capabilities are also questionable. So before you make such pitiful sweeping statements get some self awareness!

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

As I said, in case you missed the point again, it was one example, one that presented itself as current news today. There are plenty of other examples out there, we all know it even if you don't.

The referendum was in or out. A soft Brexit would not be out - it would be the equivalent of doing the splits and keeping a foot in each camp.

As for the rest of it I really can't be bothered. It is just more of your insults and attempting to have the last word believing your last word is full of knowledge and wisdom. Sorry, it just isn't.

As for the parroting thing you keep throwing at me in an attempt to shut me down it just makes it obvious that that is your get out clause. Your arguments are weak and your capabilities are also questionable. So before you make such pitiful sweeping statements get some self awareness!

A Brexit is a Brexit, we never voted on what kind of Brexit we'd want. You believe a soft Brexit wouldn't count but that's simply not the case. You are projecting your agenda as a fact onto a referendum that had no bearing on what kind of Brexit we'd get.

By voting for the Tories to have enough seats to form a coalition, the public have spoken. Everything was laid out before them about how May's government pretty much backs down on everything and they still voted for them to have the opportunity to secure power. The public had the chance to change the direction of the Brexit by voting in a stronger party but they didn't. The Brexit they get will be the one they voted for twice.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

A Brexit is a Brexit, we never voted on what kind of Brexit we'd want. You believe a soft Brexit wouldn't count but that's simply not the case. You are projecting your agenda as a fact onto a referendum that had no bearing on what kind of Brexit we'd get.

By voting for the Tories to have enough seats to form a coalition, the public have spoken. Everything was laid out before them about how May's government pretty much backs down on everything and they still voted for them to have the opportunity to secure power. The public had the chance to change the direction of the Brexit by voting in a stronger party but they didn't. The Brexit they get will be the one they voted for twice.

The Tories actually did quite well in the election but Corbyn also did well by motivating so many young voters to vote for him with his promises of no uni fees and uni debts, some of which he has now back-tracked on.

It is also obvious that many of those young voters had no idea about Corbyn's views on staying in the EU and a hard Brexit. They were well mugged off.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

The Tories actually did quite well in the election but Corbyn also did well by motivating so many young voters to vote for him with his promises of no uni fees and uni debts, some of which he has now back-tracked on.

It is also obvious that many of those young voters had no idea about Corbyn's views on staying in the EU and a hard Brexit. They were well mugged off.

Not sure what someone who lost an election has to do with the party in power but any excuse to bring up Corbyn and avoid responding to my post, I guess?

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Not sure what someone who lost an election has to do with the party in power but any excuse to bring up Corbyn and avoid responding to my post, I guess?

Of course Corbyn is relevant to the point as it was his lies that got him enough votes to stop The Tories from winning with a clear majority.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by jaxie

I've never said anything about milk and honey, or slamming doors come to that, I said you leave and close the door behind you, then you negotiate a new relationship. No big change is without some sacrifice but that doesn't mean it is going to be all gloom and doom either or that we should stay in a cocoon that is not right for us. I am completely confident that this is the right thing if I wasn't I would have taken the easy route and voted to stay in the rickety boat that is the EU.

I am mystified why you voted to leave when you seem so afraid of it now and why you find it so terrifying when the signs indicate nothing particularly terrible has happened inspite of the doom and gloom predictions. For instance reports today on BBC news say that UK unemployment is at a 42 year low. Consumer price inflation seems to be holding steady and bucking expectations. UK wage expectations grow by better than expected. The Outlook is currently positive.

Perhaps the more one understands, the more daunting our future looks. I'm not afraid but I do have some serious concerns.

Employment has risen and that’s fantastic but one has to wonder, what percentage of new employment is part time, zero hour contracts, constrained hours due to those on benefits. What percentage are in taxpayer-backed training schemes or self-employed or not earning a living wage and how much disguised unemployment is there? (When someone is refused benefits, they are not counted as unemployed). How many of these employed people are underemployed? http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/41...-unemployment/

Inflation is outstripping wage growth. Salaries presently stand at 2.1 percent and inflation is 2.7 percent and the Bank of England suggests it could hit 3 percent by the end of this year. To top it all, the Bank of England has given a strong indication to an interest rate rise.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Of course Corbyn is relevant to the point as it was his lies that got him enough votes to stop The Tories from winning with a clear majority.

Lies what lies?...

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Of course Corbyn is relevant to the point as it was his lies that got him enough votes to stop The Tories from winning with a clear majority.

It's always someone else's fault isn't it? Tories didn't lose their majority because of terrible decisions they made and the awful campaign they ran, they lost because of Corbyn! The obsession is real.

It doesn't change the fact that the Tories are running the show and the Brexit they will provide will be the one you voted for whether you like it or not and you've got no one else to blame for it.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

It's always someone else's fault isn't it? Tories didn't lose their majority because of terrible decisions they made and the awful campaign they ran, they lost because of Corbyn! The obsession is real.

It doesn't change the fact that the Tories are running the show and the Brexit they will provide will be the one you voted for whether you like it or not and you've got no one else to blame for it.

Hypothetically if Brexit is successful and it turns out to be the best thing we did will you want to reap the rewards of an economy you wanted to deny us all? Will you effectively eat your words?

[JTM45]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Hypothetically if Brexit is successful and it turns out to be the best thing we did will you want to reap the rewards of an economy you wanted to deny us all? Will you effectively eat your words?

When it fails and the economy crashes will you accept that you got it wrong ?

If you're consistent you'll no doubt try to lay the blame with the ''lefties'' or Corbyn.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by JTM45

When it fails and the economy crashes will you accept that you got it wrong ?

If you're consistent you'll no doubt try to lay the blame with the ''lefties'' or Corbyn.

It won't fail. Unlike some I am not a figure of doom and gloom on this and have enough faith in our country to make it work.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Hypothetically if Brexit is successful and it turns out to be the best thing we did will you want to reap the rewards of an economy you wanted to deny us all? Will you effectively eat your words?

There's very little point in discussing something that won't ever happen.

At best things will go to **** and then it'll eventually even out and we'll have similar but likely slightly worse economic situation as we are now but the chances of us entering some sort of Golden Age just BECAUSE of Brexit is basically never going to happen. It's a pipedream of the gullible.

Brexit supporters will try to turn the inevitable economic upturn to normalcy as a success for Brexit while ignoring the fact that the economic turmoil will likely destroy a lot of lives just so we can go back to an economy that won't be any better than what we have now.

Also, you TRULY need to read posts. I've said more times than I can count that I want Brexit to go ahead, I want people to learn from their mistakes so why are you (again) trying to rewrite history to suit your argument?

I fully expect your reply to be something among the lines of 'ugh you're the one trying to rewrite history! Learn to read posts!' Gotta do your little parroting routine.