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24-08-2017, 11:43 AM | #1 | |||
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I always enjoy Chris Hedges books and seminars and found this one pertinent to a topic we so often skirt around the edges... especially on here. Most of us have little to no historical context as to why we, in the West are suffering terrorist attacks. People on here often suggest its because ISIS want to invade and take over and dominate our fruitful lands. Muslim women are now demonized for wearing the burqa. Muslim men are now scorned for being too tough on their women and Muslim refugees are seen as a frightening invasion. When you read the red tops, in fact if you read most newspapers in the UK, this sort of Western radicalization against Muslims isn't surprising but how many of us actually understand this mess was/is all a tool of U.S policy. That America was directly responsible for creating this monster and every other Warlord waiting to step into the shoes of ISIS? Its very simplistic to demonize one cause and forget about the other. ISIS is a terrorist organization but so too is the U.S
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24-08-2017, 01:37 PM | #2 | |||
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I think the point is that the US legitimised Wahhabism when it suited their purpose to do so. That said I feel that his view that the only weapons they have are themselves an an EU passport after previously mentioning they are being funded to the tune of millions :/
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24-08-2017, 01:56 PM | #3 | ||
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If as you say 'Muslim women are demonised for wearing the burkha' - why shouldn't they be. If they actually choose to wear such clothing knowing how female equality is valued in the West and written into its laws to ensure that such equality is recognised and respected, something Western women have fought long and hard for, then they are showing a lack of respect for Western values and Western women and as good as sticking two fingers up at them. So why should their feelings be given priority over that of Western women? Why should we be concerned for their feelings when they clearly aren't for ours? You may not be offended by that but many are. It isn't exactly the way to assimilate into a Western country is it! I also believe most Western women and men in 2017 would not, and should not, support 'Muslim men being too tough on their women' (whatever that means). Women are not children, they are adults with minds of their own that should not be controlled, scolded or treated as second-class citizens, so again why would they, or any man, not be scorned for that? Bearing these issues in mind it comes as no surprise to me if Muslim refugees are seen as 'a frightening invasion' when so many clearly disrespect the values of the countries they choose to live in. |
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24-08-2017, 02:48 PM | #4 | |||
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24-08-2017, 02:54 PM | #5 | |||
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How did my post get before brillos ... witchcraft?
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24-08-2017, 02:59 PM | #6 | |||
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24-08-2017, 02:59 PM | #7 | |||
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24-08-2017, 03:05 PM | #8 | |||
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It's not impossible that a deal was made to exchange oil for power, but you know what they say power corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
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24-08-2017, 05:22 PM | #9 | |||
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24-08-2017, 08:01 PM | #10 | ||
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Interesting vid thanks
This is pretty much Putins line of thinking too.He's been saying this forever. The US/Britain funds these hardline sects to use for political/economic ends.A slice of the Middle Eastern pie and then has to go in and try and sort the **** out when these groups get too big and start to bite the hand that feeds them. I can believe this since i think it's common knowledge that the US funded the Mujahideen in Afghan to fight the Communist Soviets and the Taliban grew from that.America created a monster.I mean the devout and backwards Islamic ideology was already there but America turned them into an organised fighting force.Al Qaeda I believe already existed outside of Afghanistan but moved their HQ there and 'worked' with the Taliban.I even heard somewhere(but wasn't sure if true) that Bin Laden got CIA training. For me though all this western meddling doesn't negate that Islam and the words in the Quran is a backwards still medieval religion which hasn't caught up with modern values.Even Westernised Muslims must be fighting an internal ideological struggle between the contradictions between their holy book and modern Western values with more moderate Muslims being looked down upon as apostates by the more devout followers. |
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25-08-2017, 10:44 AM | #11 | |||
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We have to accept that we do not own Islam regardless of how backward we think it is… It was never ours to take and the taking of it has not only destroyed many millions of lives in their own countries but lives in our countries too and sadly, I think that’s going to continue for a very long time. That by the way, does not make me support revenge, just understand why its happening. Its not happening because they want to be like us, its because they don’t want to be like us.
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25-08-2017, 11:07 AM | #12 | |||
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I'd like to mention the opposing views that Muslim women are demonised for wearing the burqa and that they are disrespectful to wear it.
I think that you are both completely wrong. Women don't choose to wear religious garb through some form of ancient modesty and they certainly don't do it to piss anyone off or be offensive. Women are taught to believe they must wear these garments to be modest by men. It is religious uniform, religious conditioning and a form of control exercised by men raised with very mysogionistic beliefs. They are further isolated by the restrictive nature of the cover which must make it very difficult to make friends outside their own community. Education is desperately needed on this not appeasement or ridicule. The post above is right when it says we don't own Islam but we do own the right of equality for all women where we live and those women who are raised in mysogionistic beliefs should have those rights and an education to match them also.
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25-08-2017, 11:30 AM | #13 | |||
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25-08-2017, 03:56 PM | #14 | |||
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I wouldn't say people demonize Muslims generally, I think the religion and aspects of what is being taught are certainly a topic of conversation and coming more under scrutiny than before, in view of the increasing attacks and beheadings in the name of the religion. How can we possibly forget about the segregation of and mysogyny towards women? You make it sound like a choice between tomato or hp sauce.
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25-08-2017, 04:20 PM | #15 | ||
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To be fair I have to wonder; do those who are so vehemently opposed to things like hijab / burka feel the same about their western equivalents? Does this make you recoil in the same way;
Does it bother you in the same way that MANY branches of Christianity insist on "female modesty" such as long sleeves / skirts / no low necklines or showing stomach, etc? Mormons, for example? Or countless other more strict branches of Protestantism? |
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25-08-2017, 04:40 PM | #16 | ||
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Neither do they cover their faces and identity - the biggest insult of all in my opinion. Neither are they used to commit terrorist acts such as the recent attacks by three women in London. Hugh differences in my opinion. |
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25-08-2017, 04:59 PM | #17 | ||
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Those women I have no time for because they attempt to undermine the equality of women in general in my opinion. For those that are being forced to wear it the stopping of this misogynistic practice would not only be liberating for those women but the moral and progressive thing to do for a Western society. Last edited by Brillopad; 25-08-2017 at 05:01 PM. |
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25-08-2017, 05:37 PM | #18 | |||
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"I'm suggesting our prejudices are born from ignorance"
Yes true for a Great Deal. But not me. |
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25-08-2017, 06:23 PM | #19 | |||
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I'll leave you to it.
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25-08-2017, 06:28 PM | #20 | ||
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25-08-2017, 06:44 PM | #21 | |||
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No its not my thread but you are making it into your thread. You haven't attempted to discuss what this topic is about.
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25-08-2017, 11:25 PM | #22 | |||
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In ancient times cats were worshipped as gods; they have not forgotten this. Terry Pratchett “I am thrilled to be alive at time when humanity is pushing against the limits of understanding. Even better, we may eventually discover that there are no limits.” ― Richard Dawkins Last edited by jaxie; 25-08-2017 at 11:35 PM. |
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26-08-2017, 08:46 AM | #23 | |||
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When are folk going to critise Hindu's with their beleifs about women ..I hear Islam condemed for their proceived views about women...Honour killlings/FGM/arrangened marrage's all happen with Christian/Hindu /Sheik,,, Ah feck ...forget to mention how violent are the so callled peace loving Budist's against Muslim's |
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