[Livia]

Originally Posted by Jamie89

Oh ok, I thought you were commenting on the previous posts about her attention seeking being a possible reason for her transitioning.

I said she is an attention and she was probably an attention seeker when she was a man... and that her personality will be much the same now as then. I just don't like her, and that has nothing to do with her gender.

[bitontheslide]

Originally Posted by Jamie89

Oh ok, I thought you were commenting on the previous posts about her attention seeking being a possible reason for her transitioning.



Well no I can't prove it, I don't know anything about the assessments India has had, I just consider it extremely unlikely and it puzzles me why someone would believe that side over the other side because it makes so much more sense to me.

the difference is that believing or not does enter into the equation where other critical NHS procedures are based on hard fact and evidence. Like it or not NHS services will always have to be prioritised and as such there will always be negative voices raised when something cannot be proven in black and white terms.

I don't set the priorities, but I can fully understand those that are waiting on life dependent treatment questioning priorities.

[AnnieK]

I can understand people being seriously pissed off about NHS treatments for non life saving treatments when they have to enter a postcode lottery to get life saving cancer drugs and NHS resources are stretched to the limits. I don't think everyone who has gender reassignment will get it on the NHS - bit like IVF treatment I would imagine there are pretty stringent criteria and very much Health Authority dependent. I have a friend who has needed a breast reduction for years - she is in constant and dibilitating pain but it has been deemed "non essential" and cosmetic although they agree is has caused irreversible curvature of her spine.

[Jamie89]

Originally Posted by Livia

I said she is an attention and she was probably an attention seeker when she was a man... and that her personality will be much the same now as then. I just don't like her, and that has nothing to do with her gender.

I know I get that now It's because it came right in the middle of comments being made about attention seeking being a possible reason for her to claim to be a transsexual/have a sex change... crossed wires.

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

the difference is that believing or not does enter into the equation where other critical NHS procedures are based on hard fact and evidence. Like it or not NHS services will always have to be prioritised and as such there will always be negative voices raised when something cannot be proven in black and white terms.

I don't set the priorities, but I can fully understand those that are waiting on life dependent treatment questioning priorities.

I suppose I just disagree with that. It's impossible for a transsexual person to prove that they are indeed transsexual, and yet they are people in my view who require medical assistance. Not doing anything for them can be severely harmful and I think the NHS should support people like that as well as others who are able to prove they need help through it being physically obvious. They are required to go to lengths in order to be approved for treatment and I'm not really sure what else could be expected of them... unless we just leave them. And the way I see it the only justification I would be able to make for just leaving them, would be if they were potentially lying about being transsexual, and I can't get my head around that way of thinking at all.

[odd sock]

Originally Posted by Livia

Has India been through the same Trauma as Ann? No. She didn't grow up as a woman, fighting prejudice and discrimination especially when Ann grew up. India grew up as a man with all the advantages that brings. And she is still a newsreader. A job she acquired years ago when she was a man.

She has a teenage son who she has admitted is struggling with her transition and she thought the best way to tackle that was to go on to CBB and wander around wearing next to nothing. I am tired of looking at her partially naked body. She is an attention seeker and I don't think she's going to be any kind of help to the transgender community because she's self-absorbed and obnoxious.

[Gusto Brunt]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

that repulsive dress the other night rather defeats the "not an attention seeker claims"

The dress would have looked awful on anyone. Man, woman, or beast.

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

Has India been through the same Trauma as Ann? No. She didn't grow up as a woman, fighting prejudice and discrimination especially when Ann grew up. India grew up as a man with all the advantages that brings. And she is still a newsreader. A job she acquired years ago when she was a man.

She has a teenage son who she has admitted is struggling with her transition and she thought the best way to tackle that was to go on to CBB and wander around wearing next to nothing. I am tired of looking at her partially naked body. She is an attention seeker and I don't think she's going to be any kind of help to the transgender community because she's self-absorbed and obnoxious.

Im sick of hearing that she's brave ( did she run in a burning house to rescue a baby ? No she didn't ) she had trauma, (so have cancer patients who have had their benefits stopped and been made to take a job) has she ever lived a life where she cannot pay her bills and lost her home ? No she hasn't, she's CHOSEN to swap sex at the age of 50 ,clearly upsetting her son ... She a selfish person who has put herself before her child, she's knows nothing of real trauma

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

I can understand people being seriously pissed off about NHS treatments for non life saving treatments when they have to enter a postcode lottery to get life saving cancer drugs and NHS resources are stretched to the limits. I don't think everyone who has gender reassignment will get it on the NHS - bit like IVF treatment I would imagine there are pretty stringent criteria and very much Health Authority dependent. I have a friend who has needed a breast reduction for years - she is in constant and dibilitating pain but it has been deemed "non essential" and cosmetic although they agree is has caused irreversible curvature of her spine.

She said last night she had it done on the NHS

[reece(:]

Originally Posted by chuff me dizzy

She a selfish person who has put herself before her child, she's knows nothing of real trauma

welp

She can choose to live her life as she wishes

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by reece(:

welp

She can choose to live her life as she wishes

Yes she can ,as long as she damn well pays for the pleasure

[Livia]

Originally Posted by reece(:

welp

She can choose to live her life as she wishes

And we can all judge her like Judy for disregarding the feelings and wellbeing of her son and sticking herself on telly.

[Jamie89]

Originally Posted by chuff me dizzy

Im sick of hearing that she's brave ( did she run in a burning house to rescue a baby ? No she didn't ) she had trauma, (so have cancer patients who have had their benefits stopped and been made to take a job) has she ever lived a life where she cannot pay her bills and lost her home ? No she hasn't, she's CHOSEN to swap sex at the age of 50 ,clearly upsetting her son ... She a selfish person who has put herself before her child, she's knows nothing of real trauma

Yes lot's of people have experienced trauma, it's not a competition.

Waterhog clearly only used Ann as a comparison on the basis of India's trauma being to do with issues relating to her body, and the question being asked of why Ann doesn't view or show her body in the same way as India does. It was a perfectly reasonable comment based on the comparison already made and wasn't meant to take anything away from Ann's experiences or cancer patients!

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

I can understand people being seriously pissed off about NHS treatments for non life saving treatments when they have to enter a postcode lottery to get life saving cancer drugs and NHS resources are stretched to the limits. I don't think everyone who has gender reassignment will get it on the NHS - bit like IVF treatment I would imagine there are pretty stringent criteria and very much Health Authority dependent. I have a friend who has needed a breast reduction for years - she is in constant and dibilitating pain but it has been deemed "non essential" and cosmetic although they agree is has caused irreversible curvature of her spine.

Its so wrong how so many treatments are basically a postcode lottery.

I don't think cosmetic surgery should be available on the NHS. I have needed a breast reduction since being about 14 and it used to seriously piss me off how I was told no yet one of my friends managed to get a breast enlargement on the NHS. Mine was for health reasons, hers was purely cosmetic. Though I do think reconstructions after mastectomies should be available.

I think being mad at the people who get treatments on the NHS is the wrong way to go though. Its not their fault that people are denied lifesaving treatment under the guise of funding being too low, whilst others are getting non-essential treatments. There needs to be a clear system in place, not changed by where you live, not pot luck...and finally, the NHS needs more ****ing funding fullstop. I do think NHS treatments should be stuff thats actually NEEDED (such as chemo) rather than wanted though, whilst funding is so low. Anything non-essential should just be done when there is the time/money rather than being prioritized and if people don't like the waiting lists, they can go private. There are actually pushes going on right now from an extremist group that advise the government (!) to say 'sex changes' are classed as essential and should be prioritized. Whilst at the same time saying that mental health help for people 'trapped in the wrong body' is 'transphobic'. Healing the mind first would make so much sense. Noone knows what the actual effects of long term hormones and such are (especially in kids) and I think so much more research needs to be going into stuff like this,m along with research into detransitioners.

Edit. heres the 'manifesto'. Makes seriously bonkers reading.

https://edinburghath.tumblr.com/post...alth-manifesto

ATH advise the government on law changes to do with trans matters. They are very clearly an extremist group, and just ridiculous self centred arseholes. Quite why anyone takes them seriously I do not know. But people clearly do. They also defend and even encourage violence.

[hijaxers]

Originally Posted by Livia

Has India been through the same Trauma as Ann? No. She didn't grow up as a woman, fighting prejudice and discrimination especially when Ann grew up. India grew up as a man with all the advantages that brings. And she is still a newsreader. A job she acquired years ago when she was a man.

She has a teenage son who she has admitted is struggling with her transition and she thought the best way to tackle that was to go on to CBB and wander around wearing next to nothing. I am tired of looking at her partially naked body. She is an attention seeker and I don't think she's going to be any kind of help to the transgender community because she's self-absorbed and obnoxious.

Yes i agree , where is her understanding of her son, getting yer tits out at every opportunity is hardly going to repair a fractured relationship - this is all about her getting airtime - god knows why but its certainly not about her son.

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by Jamie89

Yes lot's of people have experienced trauma, it's not a competition.

Waterhog clearly only used Ann as a comparison on the basis of India's trauma being to do with issues relating to her body, and the question being asked of why Ann doesn't view or show her body in the same way as India does. It was a perfectly reasonable comment based on the comparison already made and wasn't meant to take anything away from Ann's experiences or cancer patients!

India CHOSES to show her body

[Babayaro.]

Originally Posted by chuff me dizzy

Im sick of hearing that she's brave ( did she run in a burning house to rescue a baby ? No she didn't ) she had trauma, (so have cancer patients who have had their benefits stopped and been made to take a job) has she ever lived a life where she cannot pay her bills and lost her home ? No she hasn't, she's CHOSEN to swap sex at the age of 50 ,clearly upsetting her son ... She a selfish person who has put herself before her child, she's knows nothing of real trauma

All of this is absolutely ridiculous. Deary me.

[Jamie89]

Originally Posted by chuff me dizzy

India CHOSES to show her body

Yes? what does that have to do with what I said?

[Vicky.]

I would be happy having even half the confidence India appears to have tbh.

[Amy Jade]

I think it's great she is so body confident and she looks fabulous, her dress for entering was cute.

[Smithy]

Originally Posted by chuff me dizzy

Taxpayers money being used for vanity ,massive issue

It’s not vanity wtaf if wrong with you you seriously need to educate yourself on transgender issues, you’re seriously embarrassing yourself

Originally Posted by Livia

You've heard the NHS is struggling at the moment?

Not relevant

[rusticgal]

Originally Posted by Livia

Has India been through the same Trauma as Ann? No. She didn't grow up as a woman, fighting prejudice and discrimination especially when Ann grew up. India grew up as a man with all the advantages that brings. And she is still a newsreader. A job she acquired years ago when she was a man.

She has a teenage son who she has admitted is struggling with her transition and she thought the best way to tackle that was to go on to CBB and wander around wearing next to nothing. I am tired of looking at her partially naked body. She is an attention seeker and I don't think she's going to be any kind of help to the transgender community because she's self-absorbed and obnoxious.

Totally agree with that Livia..

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I would be happy having even half the confidence India appears to have tbh.

Yes... her confidence is quite unbelievable, especially with so many mirrors around. I have to say, and I don't mean this as an insult but as statement of fact... she has the bodyshape of a man.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Smithy

Not relevant

Really? I wonder what a cancer patient being denied life-saving treatment would say. Unless you are of the belief that someone with gender issues is worth more than other people.

[Smithy]

Originally Posted by Livia

Really? I wonder what a cancer patient being denied life-saving treatment would say. Unless you are of the belief that someone with gender issues is worth more than other people.

So a gender reassignment surgeon is meant to provide cancer treatment are they? Because being a doctor or someone of the medical profession is all the same thing isn’t it?

[Vicky.]

Its not the surgeons, its the funding fullstop.