[lewis111]

There's loads of debates as to wether Courtney can be a feminist because she's a man that dresses as a woman
People think Ann saying women are equal already doesn't make her a feminist

And obviously Donal Trump recent stated he wasn't a feminist

So what does the word and movement mean to you, and by your definition are you a feminist?

[Ammi]

...for me it means equality../..equal free choices and opportunities etc for males and equal free choices and opportunities etc for females, regardless of gender...

[Greg!]

Equality!

[Firewire]

We teach girls to shrink themselves, to make themselves smaller
We say to girls: "You can have ambition, but not too much
You should aim to be successful, but not too successful
Otherwise, you will threaten the man"
Because I am female, I am expected to aspire to marriage
I am expected to make my life choices
Always keeping in mind that marriage is the most important
Now, marriage can be a source of joy and love and mutual support
But why do we teach girls to aspire to marriage
And we don't teach boys the same?
We raise girls to see each other as competitors
Not for jobs or for accomplishments, which I think can be a good thing
But for the attention of men
We teach girls that they cannot be sexual beings in the way that boys are
Feminist: a person who believes in the social, political
And economic equality of the sexes

[lewis111]

Originally Posted by Firewire

We teach girls to shrink themselves, to make themselves smaller
We say to girls: "You can have ambition, but not too much
You should aim to be successful, but not too successful
Otherwise, you will threaten the man"
Because I am female, I am expected to aspire to marriage
I am expected to make my life choices
Always keeping in mind that marriage is the most important
Now, marriage can be a source of joy and love and mutual support
But why do we teach girls to aspire to marriage
And we don't teach boys the same?
We raise girls to see each other as competitors
Not for jobs or for accomplishments, which I think can be a good thing
But for the attention of men
We teach girls that they cannot be sexual beings in the way that boys are
Feminist: a person who believes in the social, political
And economic equality of the sexes

[RileyH]

Originally Posted by Greg!

Equality!

.

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Firewire

We teach girls to shrink themselves, to make themselves smaller
We say to girls: "You can have ambition, but not too much
You should aim to be successful, but not too successful
Otherwise, you will threaten the man"
Because I am female, I am expected to aspire to marriage
I am expected to make my life choices
Always keeping in mind that marriage is the most important
Now, marriage can be a source of joy and love and mutual support
But why do we teach girls to aspire to marriage
And we don't teach boys the same?
We raise girls to see each other as competitors
Not for jobs or for accomplishments, which I think can be a good thing
But for the attention of men
We teach girls that they cannot be sexual beings in the way that boys are
Feminist: a person who believes in the social, political
And economic equality of the sexes

https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/990...selves-smaller

[LeatherTrumpet]

Im with Donald

[Firewire]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/990...selves-smaller

Thanks

[Underscore]

Originally Posted by Firewire

We teach girls to shrink themselves, to make themselves smaller
We say to girls: "You can have ambition, but not too much
You should aim to be successful, but not too successful
Otherwise, you will threaten the man"
Because I am female, I am expected to aspire to marriage
I am expected to make my life choices
Always keeping in mind that marriage is the most important
Now, marriage can be a source of joy and love and mutual support
But why do we teach girls to aspire to marriage
And we don't teach boys the same?
We raise girls to see each other as competitors
Not for jobs or for accomplishments, which I think can be a good thing
But for the attention of men
We teach girls that they cannot be sexual beings in the way that boys are
Feminist: a person who believes in the social, political
And economic equality of the sexes

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Firewire

Thanks

you did not provide a link to what you copied

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Firewire

We teach girls to shrink themselves, to make themselves smaller
We say to girls: "You can have ambition, but not too much
You should aim to be successful, but not too successful
Otherwise, you will threaten the man"
Because I am female, I am expected to aspire to marriage
I am expected to make my life choices
Always keeping in mind that marriage is the most important
Now, marriage can be a source of joy and love and mutual support
But why do we teach girls to aspire to marriage
And we don't teach boys the same?
We raise girls to see each other as competitors
Not for jobs or for accomplishments, which I think can be a good thing
But for the attention of men
We teach girls that they cannot be sexual beings in the way that boys are
Feminist: a person who believes in the social, political
And economic equality of the sexes

Excellent FireWire. Very, very true!

[Firewire]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

you did not provide a link to what you copied

Is it necessary?

And besides you copied the wrong thing

[Firewire]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Excellent FireWire. Very, very true!

Don't thank me, thank Chimamanda.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Firewire

We teach girls to shrink themselves, to make themselves smaller
We say to girls: "You can have ambition, but not too much
You should aim to be successful, but not too successful
Otherwise, you will threaten the man"
Because I am female, I am expected to aspire to marriage
I am expected to make my life choices
Always keeping in mind that marriage is the most important
Now, marriage can be a source of joy and love and mutual support
But why do we teach girls to aspire to marriage
And we don't teach boys the same?
We raise girls to see each other as competitors
Not for jobs or for accomplishments, which I think can be a good thing
But for the attention of men
We teach girls that they cannot be sexual beings in the way that boys are
Feminist: a person who believes in the social, political
And economic equality of the sexes

Beautiful

Feminism to me is about liberating women from oppression tbh. I know many will scoff at that and say women are not oppressed but I disagree. Yes it is much better for female people in this country than it is elsewhere but not many people truly see men and women as equal, so many still see women as something thats just there for mens amusement. Also womens rights (that we currently have) are almost constantly under attack (a good recent example if this push to eliminate female only spaces and services and let people 'self identify' their sex), so those claiming feminism is no longer needed are wrong.

I do think part of womens oppression is based in nature though. We are the weaker sex, we will be dominated in certain areas of life and thats pretty impossible to prevent. But I feel a lot of the way a lot of men behave towards women is 'taught' and not nature. From the second it is announced 'its a girl/boy' the child is treat differently. This needs to stop really, else we will never get anywhere. I try to bring up my kids exactly the same but even though I am consciously trying to do this, I do slip up as the behaviour expected of males and females is so deeply ingrained...its hard to shift.

This went on a bit longer than I planned it too tbh, and possibly went offtopic too. Its hard to talk ab out feminism on here with so many people waiting to jump on you if you say the wrong thing. From all angles.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Greg!

Equality!

.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Beautiful

Feminism to me is about liberating women from oppression tbh. I know many will scoff at that and say women are not oppressed but I disagree. Yes it is much better for female people in this country than it is elsewhere but not many people truly see men and women as equal, so many still see women as something thats just there for mens amusement. Also womens rights (that we currently have) are almost constantly under attack (a good recent example if this push to eliminate female only spaces and services and let people 'self identify' their sex), so those claiming feminism is no longer needed are wrong.

I do think part of womens oppression is based in nature though. We are the weaker sex, we will be dominated in certain areas of life and thats pretty impossible to prevent. But I feel a lot of the way a lot of men behave towards women is 'taught' and not nature. From the second it is announced 'its a girl/boy' the child is treat differently. This needs to stop really, else we will never get anywhere. I try to bring up my kids exactly the same but even though I am consciously trying to do this, I do slip up as the behaviour expected of males and females is so deeply ingrained...its hard to shift.

This went on a bit longer than I planned it too tbh, and possibly went offtopic too. Its hard to talk ab out feminism on here with so many people waiting to jump on you if you say the wrong thing. From all angles.

I studied this a bit years ago in a nature nurture debate and babies are treated very differently from the moment they are born. There is no denying it. Parents don’t even know they are doing it. It’s so ingrained. The conditioning continues from then on in in our expectations of them, the toys we buy them etc. Men in particular have a tendency to treat their daughters differently especially when they reach the teenage years and it has always annoyed the heck out of me.

I had no end of falling-outs with my mother over this, she was more old-school, but always stuck to my guns and would not be told how to live my life. When I had children I only had boys and always felt quite protective of them but can’t imagine treating them any different from a daughter. I would have the same dreams and expectations for both and hope they did things their way.

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Firewire

Is it necessary?

And besides you copied the wrong thing

yes its forum decorum to link to anything you cut and paste so that people are not confused between your own posts and that of others


as you already know

[Oliver_W]

I wouldn't call myself a feminist by "today's standards". I mean, of course I believe in equality for both genders, but when Modern Feminism(tm) thinks equally qualified men and women get paid differently for doing the same work+same hours, focus on issues which don't matter like how men sit instead of real issues, and ally themselves with islam, it's hard to take it seriously.

[LeatherTrumpet]

and they say in Scotland

A man is not a man until he has a daughter

[Firewire]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

yes its forum decorum to link to anything you cut and paste so that people are not confused between your own posts and that of others


as you already know

I would like to think people aren't that stupid

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Firewire

I would like to think people aren't that stupid

or that posters are trying to pass off other peoples work

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

I wouldn't call myself a feminist by "today's standards". I mean, of course I believe in equality for both genders, but when Modern Feminism(tm) thinks equally qualified men and women get paid differently for doing the same work+same hours, focus on issues which don't matter like how men sit instead of real issues, and ally themselves with islam, it's hard to take it seriously.

I agree with this; I have little time for "popular modern-day feminism" because it's reactionary and not evidence-based... it's a lot of people jabbering about things they've heard other people say as if it's hard fact. Which makes it pretty worthless.

"Women get paid 9% less than men for the same job!!"
"How do you know?"
"I read it on Facebook yesterday."
"Do you have a link to ANY actual official stats that back up this claim?"
"NO and you are SEXIST for even asking."


It drives me nuts. Give me a topic that can actually be debated, a problem that can actually be studied and addressed, and I'm all for it. If you've got little more than "Stuff is bad and it's bad that stuff is bad, and it's even worse that you won't join me in complaining about the bad stuff!!" then I just... can't.

Have a real, tangible, evidence based issue and want to find ways to address that issue? Great!

Just feeling peeved and want to rant and everyone to feel angry and / or guilty along with you but with no actual utility or positive end goal? No I'm not really interested I'm afraid.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Beautiful

Feminism to me is about liberating women from oppression tbh. I know many will scoff at that and say women are not oppressed but I disagree. Yes it is much better for female people in this country than it is elsewhere but not many people truly see men and women as equal, so many still see women as something thats just there for mens amusement. Also womens rights (that we currently have) are almost constantly under attack (a good recent example if this push to eliminate female only spaces and services and let people 'self identify' their sex), so those claiming feminism is no longer needed are wrong.

I do think part of womens oppression is based in nature though. We are the weaker sex, we will be dominated in certain areas of life and thats pretty impossible to prevent. But I feel a lot of the way a lot of men behave towards women is 'taught' and not nature. From the second it is announced 'its a girl/boy' the child is treat differently. This needs to stop really, else we will never get anywhere. I try to bring up my kids exactly the same but even though I am consciously trying to do this, I do slip up as the behaviour expected of males and females is so deeply ingrained...its hard to shift.

This went on a bit longer than I planned it too tbh, and possibly went offtopic too. Its hard to talk ab out feminism on here with so many people waiting to jump on you if you say the wrong thing. From all angles.

...I’m not scoffing, Vicky...I promise you I’m not but I do think it’s sometimes tricky to define oppression because surely in some cultures for instance...we may feel we see oppression but that female doesn’t necessarily feel oppression because they feel they’re making their own choices within their own culture and beliefs ...so we have to respect that also otherwise, we would become the oppressors ourselves, if that makes sense...that doesn’t mean there aren’t some things though that protection against isn’t needed with our laws etc...hmmm, I’m also not sure I agree with ‘so many still see women there as men’s amusement’...yes there are some obviously who do have that mindset and there are laws to protect also..but I don’t think it’s a ‘many’ thing, and a more generalised and extensive thing for the male mindset today...and that then also risks taking back feminism a little as well because it could be perceived as indicating a low opinion of males felt by ‘the feminist females’...so then things start to hinder rather than progress forward because it could create a resistance to femism...

[Smithy]

Originally Posted by Firewire

Feminist: a person who believes in the social, political
And economic equality of the sexes

I was just gonna post this bit