FAQ |
Members List |
Calendar |
Search |
Today's Posts |
|
Serious Debates & News Debate and discussion about political, moral, philosophical, celebrity and news topics. |
Reply |
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
07-02-2018, 09:53 PM | #51 | ||
|
|||
0_o
|
There also this in the swimming guidance
Quote:
Its all contradictory nonsense. I am sick of having to post about stuff like this because honestly, to me saying a person with a penis is a man, is the same as saying water is wet or fire is hot. Edit. I kind of want to make this into another thread now, as its important, again. But...too many trans threads?
__________________
Quote:
Last edited by Vicky.; 07-02-2018 at 09:54 PM. |
||
Reply With Quote |
07-02-2018, 11:19 PM | #52 | |||
|
||||
Senior Member
|
Quote:
__________________
In ancient times cats were worshipped as gods; they have not forgotten this. Terry Pratchett “I am thrilled to be alive at time when humanity is pushing against the limits of understanding. Even better, we may eventually discover that there are no limits.” ― Richard Dawkins |
|||
Reply With Quote |
07-02-2018, 11:40 PM | #53 | |||
|
||||
Jessica Meuse was robbed.
|
This.
__________________
KRO! |
|||
Reply With Quote |
07-02-2018, 11:59 PM | #54 | |||
|
||||
Jessica Meuse was robbed.
|
But no if they've got a penis they're still a man and therefore they should not be in women's clinics or prisons or whatever single sex thing that we're talking about. It's crazy that the Government sees this as more important than women's safety.
__________________
KRO! |
|||
Reply With Quote |
08-02-2018, 02:47 AM | #55 | ||
|
|||
0_o
|
Interesting. India disagrees with female only spaces, but India supports 'trans only spaces'
https://twitter.com/IndiaWilloughby/...18763378053120 So she accepts that at some points, certain groups may need space away from one another. But does not think female people should ever be able to be away from male ones, even when traumatized and escaping male violence
__________________
Quote:
|
||
Reply With Quote |
08-02-2018, 09:16 AM | #56 | |||
|
||||
I Love my brick
|
I think it's a very important issue to discuss right now aswell, specifically to make people aware of the differences between transgender and transsexual and changes they're trying to make. I wouldn't have known anything about all this only for Vicky
__________________
Spoiler: |
|||
Reply With Quote |
08-02-2018, 09:22 AM | #57 | ||
|
|||
0_o
|
I will do this in a day or so, as I started a thread this morning about trans stuff too. Many people are about to wake up to it, if the Commonwealth games is quite as popular as Gavin says it is
__________________
Quote:
|
||
Reply With Quote |
08-02-2018, 09:48 AM | #58 | ||
|
|||
-
|
Being totally honest here... I do understand people's issue with this but then I also think there's an element of hysteria surrounding it. Like yes, in theory, allowing transexuals access to female only spaces IS open to abuse and does make it POSSIBLE for devious individuals to gain access to commit a crime. However, the idea that suddenly there are going to be countless men swaggering into female toilets swinging their dicks and shouting "I'm a woman too!" is ... well ... just a tad over the top. Realistically, it's not going to happen very often. Also realistically, if a predator is determined enough to attack a woman that he would pose as a transgendered individual to get into a women's bathroom and attack someone... then I don't think NOT allowing trans people in women's bathrooms is exactly going to stop that individual? I mean... the bathrooms don't have invisible penis detecting forcefields around them... and an attack either way could only occur in a relatively quiet / isolated place. Where a man could just walk in anyway? They're not going to head towards a women's bathroom, see the sign that says "ladies" and say "Well darn, I'm not a lady so I can't go in! No sexual assault for me today I guess".
In short... I suppose... a predator looking to attack someone is probably going to attack someone. I really, genuinely, don't think many will be putting on dresses to descend on public toilets en masse. Likewise the women's refuge thing, I feel like in that situation it shouldn't be particularly difficult to weed out the genuine victims from the potential predators. A common sense approach SHOULD be totally fine - "passing" females should be accepted. The idea that a sexual predator is going to have hormone therapy, dress and live their life as a woman, then pose as a domestic abuse victim... all for the chance to access and try to attack someone in a monitored / populated / staffed refuge... well yeah. Again it's possible, but the likelihood of it is so low that any genuine fear of it happening can only be grossly exaggerated. But basically my thoughts are that people these days are getting so caught up in legislation that no one knows how to use common sense any more . |
||
Reply With Quote |
08-02-2018, 09:52 AM | #59 | |||
|
||||
שטח זה להשכרה
|
Quote:
|
|||
Reply With Quote |
08-02-2018, 09:55 AM | #60 | |||
|
||||
self-oscillating
|
It's fundamentally wrong to make a group more vulnerable for the sake of (dare i say it) political correctness. It makes no sense whatsoever.
If these were not already vulnerable people, I could perhaps agree that it may not be a common place occurrence, but even 1 occurrence is too many when referring to the recovering and vulnerable. |
|||
Reply With Quote |
08-02-2018, 09:59 AM | #61 | |||
|
||||
I Love my brick
|
Quote:
Just going back to TSs points though about that sexual abusers will find away regardless and why would they bother going to those lengths Look at how many paedophiles seek out jobs involving easy access to children? priests for example, you would think no one would go so far as to join the priesthood but they did
__________________
Spoiler: |
|||
Reply With Quote |
08-02-2018, 10:00 AM | #62 | |||
|
||||
0_o
|
Quote:
And yes, predators are going to be predators. So why on earth make things easier for them? Basically this does sound like..women are just being hysterical about nothing. Do you disagree with sex segregation fullstop? Finally this is about 'self identified' people. No changes required at all. So a predator wouldn't even have to put on a dress... Quote:
__________________
Quote:
Last edited by Vicky.; 08-02-2018 at 10:07 AM. |
|||
Reply With Quote |
08-02-2018, 10:02 AM | #63 | ||
|
|||
0_o
|
Quote:
Its about anyone 'self identifying' their sex. Which is clearly nonsense. Common sense has indeed gone out of the window when someone can wake up one day, tick a box on a form and 'be' the opposite sex.
__________________
Quote:
Last edited by Vicky.; 08-02-2018 at 10:03 AM. |
||
Reply With Quote |
08-02-2018, 10:22 AM | #64 | ||
|
|||
-
|
I don't know that any of it does make people literally more vulnerable, though, certainly there's no evidence beyond assumption that it does. Although it obviously hasn't been examined enough to know either way. On the issue of refuges, I find the scenario of a man posing as identifying as female in order to access and assault someone in a women's refuge, whilst technically possible, to be highly unrealistic. Likewise, I find it extremely unlikely that predators will take it as an invitation to walk into women's bathrooms with the intent of committing a crime.
So in terms of literal physical safety... no I don't think there's any real evidence that it would make women less safe. If a bathroom is isolated enough that a woman would be unsafe in this scenario, then it's isolated enough that a man could just walk in anyway "allowed" or otherwise. HOWEVER if we are talking about the right to comfort and privacy, which of course everyone also is entitled to, then yes I can completely see where you're coming from. I suppose I just feel like it might be a better platform to work from overall; that women are STILL entitled to a private space regardless of any actual safety concern. Because there's a huge focus on the "all the men will pretend to be transgender so that they can go around raping everyone!" angle which, again, is actually not particularly realistic and therefore sort of easy to argue against. |
||
Reply With Quote |
08-02-2018, 10:24 AM | #65 | |||
|
||||
self-oscillating
|
Quote:
|
|||
Reply With Quote |
08-02-2018, 10:31 AM | #66 | |||
|
||||
שטח זה להשכרה
|
It's an interesting fact that far more men seem to have a far more accepting and laissez faire attitude to this. That's not meant to be inflammatory... but I'm yet to meet a woman who isn't appalled by this when she hears the facts. And thankfully, more than a few men are just as appalled.
|
|||
Reply With Quote |
08-02-2018, 10:35 AM | #67 | |||
|
||||
I Love my brick
|
Exactly.
__________________
Spoiler: |
|||
Reply With Quote |
08-02-2018, 10:35 AM | #68 | ||
|
|||
-
|
Quote:
Same goes for bathrooms. I don't believe assaults are the likely outcome, but women feeling uncomfortable (and potentially, even choosing NOT to use public restrooms at all) is a very possible outcome and that shouldn't be ignored, either. When it comes right down to it though, on that front... my local shopping mall has a large toilets area, no mens, no womens, no disabled: Just a long row of individual locking rooms that have a toilet, sink, baby change and disabled facilities, in every one. IMO that is the way forward in terms of both safety and inclusion... and in fact just in terms of general privacy for everyone. It's MUCH better. Awesome for families, too. |
||
Reply With Quote |
08-02-2018, 10:36 AM | #69 | |||
|
||||
שטח זה להשכרה
|
Quote:
|
|||
Reply With Quote |
08-02-2018, 10:38 AM | #70 | |||
|
||||
I Love my brick
|
Quote:
__________________
Spoiler: |
|||
Reply With Quote |
08-02-2018, 10:38 AM | #71 | ||
|
|||
-
|
Quote:
Quote:
|
||
Reply With Quote |
08-02-2018, 10:44 AM | #72 | |||
|
||||
I Love my brick
|
Quote:
__________________
Spoiler: |
|||
Reply With Quote |
08-02-2018, 10:45 AM | #73 | ||
|
|||
0_o
|
Quote:
http://womanmeanssomething.com/1034-2/ Issues with voyeurism https://translesbianpositivity.tumbl...d-to-this-list List compiled by an actual transperson of incidents where 'that will never happen' has happened. Its hard to get stats, as no stats are given/collected so you have to go on news reports and such. I suspect that these collated ones are the tip of the iceberg..as stated on there. But yeah, taking stats out of it and how it will obviously be a target for predators looking to hunt, its still a bad idea. Women do not have to actually get raped en masse to show that ending sex segregation in this way is a bad idea or that it removes aspects of safety. Or they shouldn't have to be, but I suspect this may be whats going to have to happen. And even then, it will be blamed on the women in some way I would wager...
__________________
Quote:
Last edited by Vicky.; 08-02-2018 at 10:45 AM. |
||
Reply With Quote |
08-02-2018, 10:45 AM | #74 | |||
|
||||
שטח זה להשכרה
|
|
|||
Reply With Quote |
08-02-2018, 11:22 AM | #75 | ||
|
|||
-
|
Quote:
But I also understand the desire for inclusion from those who ARE genuine, which is why I think the way forward is total privacy (not mucking in together). The ones at my local shopping center certainly aren't that... it's literally like a long row of disabled toilets, no one at all is in together. |
||
Reply With Quote |
Reply |
|
|