[Kizzy]

Can someone help me understand the worries of the National Farmers Union (NFU)

Here is the gist of the story...

'Farmers are running out of patience with what they see as government inaction over the future availability of seasonal fruit and vegetable pickers, the environment secretary has been told.

Michael Gove was confronted over the issue at the National Farmers’ Union annual conference, but told delegates that while he understood their plight he did not have the power to accede to their demands for a new deal for non-EU workers on temporary contracts on farms.

Ali Capper, who chairs the NFU’s horticulture team, told Gove that the availability of workers to pick fruit and vegetables was now “mission critical for 2018”.

Gove told her the NFU’s demand for clarity on labour was “powerfully and loudly” made but that the lead department in the matter was the Home Office, not his.


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“It’s already the case that the supply of labour from EU27 countries is diminishing as their economies recover and grow. So, in the future, we will need to look further afield,” he added later, saying he had to abide by decisions in a collective government.'

Here is the bit that troubles me..

'Capper welcomed Gove’s acknowledgement that labour shortages were now so great that farmers needed to go beyond the EU, but said time was running out.

“We just need action; without wanting to blaspheme, I’m sick of hearing ‘we understand the issue, we know you need access to non-EU and EU workers’,” she said. '

Is it me, or do the farmers want slaves?... They don't want UK or even EU citizens due to the rights and protections we currently have, they want non EU members, to come here for part of the year and then leave.

Is this brexit... is this sovereignty We exploit the people and deport them once they are no longer useful?
I thought we were going to work, live and grow from within, how do we know this practice won't be adopted by many other sectors?

No wonder May now wants to discourage the young going to uni, if they want anyone from any field they can just get someone on a temporary fixed term contract ...mail order :/


https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ssion-critical

[arista]

"No wonder May now wants to discourage the young going to uni,"

The PM has said nothing new
not even given any help
just a Kick into long grass
Review.



Pathetic PM

After March 2019
it will all change - - maybe a slight worse state,
until then both sides are putting out scare story's,
all over again.

[Livia]

No to slave labour. Yes to employing unemployed people in this country. The farmers will have to pay a living wage and unemployed people will have to take the jobs. Imagine... the consternation on both sides there.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Livia

No to slave labour. Yes to employing unemployed people in this country. The farmers will have to pay a living wage and unemployed people will have to take the jobs. Imagine... the consternation on both sides there.

In THEORY this shouldn't be a problem under Universal Credit (where you can get a seasonal job and then the UC payments come back in automatically as soon as employment ends). In theory. If they ever get the system working as intended.

I completely understand unemployed people not taking seasonal jobs under the old / for some still current system, though. When I was seeking employment there no WAY I would have considered a non-permanent contract... because it can be a nightmare getting unemployment payments back afterwards, and people end up with literally zero income for 3+ months. This is how debt spirals start and people end up homeless... and is of course, part of the problem that Universal Credit was supposed to address.

And this is the main problem with employing an adequate number of fruit / veg pickers: We need A LOT of them, but only for a couple of months a year. The job is actually generally pretty well paid, but it works on the basis that people come in, make good money for a few weeks, then move on... it sort of CAN'T work any other way. I get why there's a problem.

[edit to add]

TBH a good solution (that I'm sure many won't like on the grounds of something-or-other) would be to simply make it a "proper employment exception" situation... let unemployed people (or even employed people who have time to do so) just do it cash in hand . No affect on benefits (for unemployed) and tax free (for otherwise employed).

[Livia]

I understand that we live in a welfare state. But if jobs are available, people should take them or lose benefits. Of course that would mean that a huge overhaul of the benefits system would be required, and they'd have to sort themselves out to handle people returning to benefits once seasonal jobs end.

In fact, even without all this, the benefits system needs a massive overhaul. Some people struggle unbelievably, living hand to mouth, struggling to pay rent and bills and when there's a problem their benefits are just stopped, as if they can live on fresh air. And at the same time there are people on benefits living the high life, big tellies, foreign holidays, nice car... we all know people who milk the system. It needs to be fair for everyone but it's not, and never has been, fair.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

In THEORY this shouldn't be a problem under Universal Credit (where you can get a seasonal job and then the UC payments come back in automatically as soon as employment ends). In theory. If they ever get the system working as intended.

I completely understand unemployed people not taking seasonal jobs under the old / for some still current system, though. When I was seeking employment there no WAY I would have considered a non-permanent contract... because it can be a nightmare getting unemployment payments back afterwards, and people end up with literally zero income for 3+ months. This is how debt spirals start and people end up homeless... and is of course, part of the problem that Universal Credit was supposed to address.

And this is the main problem with employing an adequate number of fruit / veg pickers: We need A LOT of them, but only for a couple of months a year. The job is actually generally pretty well paid, but it works on the basis that people come in, make good money for a few weeks, then move on... it sort of CAN'T work any other way. I get why there's a problem.

[edit to add]

TBH a good solution (that I'm sure many won't like on the grounds of something-or-other) would be to simply make it a "proper employment exception" situation... let unemployed people (or even employed people who have time to do so) just do it cash in hand . No affect on benefits (for unemployed) and tax free (for otherwise employed).

I like that.

[LeatherTrumpet]

Just make all secondary school kids do 3 weeks unpaid work on farms as part of their silly long holidays

a sort of rural conscription

it would be the making of them

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Livia

I understand that we live in a welfare state. But if jobs are available, people should take them or lose benefits. Of course that would mean that a huge overhaul of the benefits system would be required, and they'd have to sort themselves out to handle people returning to benefits once seasonal jobs end.

In fact, even without all this, the benefits system needs a massive overhaul. Some people struggle unbelievably, living hand to mouth, struggling to pay rent and bills and when there's a problem their benefits are just stopped, as if they can live on fresh air. And at the same time there are people on benefits living the high life, big tellies, foreign holidays, nice car... we all know people who milk the system. It needs to be fair for everyone but it's not, and never has been, fair.

Universal Credit was supposed to do all of that and on paper, is a really good idea. Of course the actual implimentation of it has been a complete and utter shambles to the point that it's barely fit for purpose .

The problem with people milking the system, in my experience, is that the ones who seem to have loads of cash and yet are on unemployment, tend to be doing something less-than-legal on the side. Sometimes just cash-in-hand work (I know a guy who has been on benefits for 5+ years but EVERYONE knows he's making 500+ a week cash in hand as an Elvis impersonator. Srsly.) but a lot of the time it's stolen goods / low level dealing. Proving it is nearly impossible, though...

As for the "instant stop" when there's an issue, it really is ridiculous and a problem that would be so easily solved by simply having a time-stagger . Like you get a letter about it, and then a "grace period" of say two months before money is actually affected. That would give time to either sort out / explain the situation if it's a mistake, or at least to figure out a plan if it's definitely going to happen.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Just make all secondary school kids do 3 weeks unpaid work on farms as part of their silly long holidays

a sort of rural conscription

it would be the making of them

Give 'em free alcohol and a big ol' sack of condoms in the dormatories and they'd probably volunteer?

[edit to add] 16+ only of course

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

I understand that we live in a welfare state. But if jobs are available, people should take them or lose benefits. Of course that would mean that a huge overhaul of the benefits system would be required, and they'd have to sort themselves out to handle people returning to benefits once seasonal jobs end.

In fact, even without all this, the benefits system needs a massive overhaul. Some people struggle unbelievably, living hand to mouth, struggling to pay rent and bills and when there's a problem their benefits are just stopped, as if they can live on fresh air. And at the same time there are people on benefits living the high life, big tellies, foreign holidays, nice car... we all know people who milk the system. It needs to be fair for everyone but it's not, and never has been, fair.

You really need to change your daily paper, you're so out of touch it's laughable.

[Kizzy]

Nobody has addressed the thread topic... the non Eu workers.
Can we focus for a moment before the commencement of the obligatory demonisation of benefit claimants? :/

[AnnieK]

I may be reading the article wrong but I think the need for non EU workers is because we are not getting the volume of EU workers to meet demand due to improving employment levels in their home countries. As TS has stated, the seasonal contracts are not always feasible for uk residents on benefits due to the **** around factor of having to sign on and off etc.

As I said, I have just scanned the article but cant see it being an issue of the farmers wanting slave labour, more they are simply trying to meet demand and having to go further afield to meet it