[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

If we weren’t selling them aircraft and weapons and offering expertise then they’d only be using less accurate unguided Russian bombs with more civilian casualties and Russia reaping the benefits.Of course it would be great if military weapons weren’t used or needed but If There’s arms to be sold then it may aswell be us selling them and creating the jobs for our people whilst gaining the financial benefits.Along with having an ally in the Middle East.

Russia has repeatedly condemned Saudi airstrikes and firmly support a peaceful resolution, unlike America who immediately took sides with the Saudis. If the Russians were going to support anyone or sell arms to anyone it would be pro-Iran factions.

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

Russia has repeatedly condemned Saudi airstrikes and firmly support a peaceful resolution, unlike America who immediately took sides with the Saudis. If the Russians were going to support anyone or sell arms to anyone it would be pro-Iran factions.

I’m sure they’d be happy to sell arms to almost anyone for the right price.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

I’m sure they’d be happy to sell arms to almost anyone for the right price.

Well they clearly haven't. As protectorates of Iran and the only reason the West isn't obliterating Iran, they have taken the side of the Shiite but from my research, they haven't yet provided them with arms.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

It was the West that put the Saudi Royals in place and it will be the West who destroy the Saudis if they ever close their door to the West. From our history of wars in the Middle East, I suspect its the Saudi's that are more wary of us than we are of them.

I wouldn't suggest we "destroy" anyone, but if we close our doors to the Saudis, we should do so to the Middle East. And I didn't necessarily mean they would openly announce war, but just send more terrorists our way through asylum or otherwise normal immigration.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

I wouldn't suggest we "destroy" anyone, but if we close our doors to the Saudis, we should do so to the Middle East. And I didn't necessarily mean they would openly announce war, but just send more terrorists our way through asylum or otherwise normal immigration.

But that would suggest that we are holding their hands to prevent further terrorism on our small island. We are holding their hand because of money. Money therefore is worth more than random lives. Some people can accept that, I can't.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

But that would suggest that we are holding their hands to prevent further terrorism on our small island.

I don't necessarily think we're "holding hands" to specifically prevent terrorism, but terrorism will possibly be a consequence of letting go.

[DemolitionRed]

So Oliver, are you saying we are doing this out of fear?

[Oliver_W]

No, for money and oil mainly.

[bitontheslide]

Russia were quite happy to sell weapons to Iraq during Saddam's time, the country whom Iran were at war with almost constantly, so they didn't give a crap then about arming anyone

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

No, for money and oil mainly.

..sadly I’m feeling the Brexit vote will only make these unsavoury foreign relations deals become more and more for the UK government specifically...that Brexit won’t make for ‘’independance’ at all...we haven’t given ourselves more freedom of ‘selectivity’ in foreign trade deals, surely...?...what we’ve done..(..as a nation’s vote..)...is tied and bonded ourselves more and more to these kinds of deals which cause so much life loss...

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

Russia were quite happy to sell weapons to Iraq during Saddam's time, the country whom Iran were at war with almost constantly, so they didn't give a crap then about arming anyone

Its not only Russia that make irresponsible arms transfers. Russia, USA, Germany, China, France, Germany and the UK all inadvertently armed ISIS.

[Northern Monkey]

If the West didn’t do deals with the Saudis can you honestly see Russian arms manufacturers passing up lucrative contracts with them?I can’t.
Money trumps politics.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..sadly I’m feeling the Brexit vote will only make these unsavoury foreign relations deals become more and more for the UK government specifically...that Brexit won’t make for ‘’independance’ at all...we haven’t given ourselves more freedom of ‘selectivity’ in foreign trade deals, surely...?...what we’ve done..(..as a nation’s vote..)...is tied and bonded ourselves more and more to these kinds of deals which cause so much life loss...

I'm glad the penny is propping for some, if we are not trading with our closest allies and neighbours in Europe the ones for whom it has always been assured we had the 'shared values' with whom will we trade?... Where will the workforce we so desperately need come from.... Outside Europe, from those countries with dubious at best human rights records, or no human rights at all. How will that affect out workers rights?

The leavers who voted leave in the hope that indeed their passports will be blue and faces white are going to be VERY dissapointed :/

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

If the West didn’t do deals with the Saudis can you honestly see Russian arms manufacturers passing up lucrative contracts with them?I can’t.
Money trumps politics.

So it doesn't matter is you are complicit in the killing of innocent people for money? Right so from now on should I hear on this forum any mention of anyone cosying up to anyone as they align themselves with those who kill I will just quote this. Thank you.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...bia-high-court

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

So it doesn't matter is you are complicit in the killing of innocent people for money? Right so from now on should I hear on this forum any mention of anyone cosying up to anyone as they align themselves with those who kill I will just quote this. Thank you.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...bia-high-court

I dont think that is a concern here

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

Its not only Russia that make irresponsible arms transfers. Russia, USA, Germany, China, France, Germany and the UK all inadvertently armed ISIS.

What is this - an attempt to excuse ISIS themselves for their own actions and simply blame the West yet again.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

I dont think that is a concern here

ok

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..sadly I’m feeling the Brexit vote will only make these unsavoury foreign relations deals become more and more for the UK government specifically...that Brexit won’t make for ‘’independance’ at all...we haven’t given ourselves more freedom of ‘selectivity’ in foreign trade deals, surely...?...what we’ve done..(..as a nation’s vote..)...is tied and bonded ourselves more and more to these kinds of deals which cause so much life loss...

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

I dont think that is a concern here

Well its obviously not a concern to you but please don't speak for us all.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

What is this - an attempt to excuse ISIS themselves for their own actions and simply blame the West yet again.

Why would that be excusing ISIS. Do you actually know anything about ISIS. How they formed, how they got the arms they needed? If you think the history behind how ISIS grew is somehow excusing them, you need to go and have a serious word with yourself.

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

What is this - an attempt to excuse ISIS themselves for their own actions and simply blame the West yet again.

Far from it.
But don't you think that the West has a duty of care as to where their weapons may end up? I mean possible likely scenarios. Saudi-wahhabism-terror groups link has been open secret for decades. As the west we constantly put ourselves on moral high ground and interfere in other countries based on that. It's only right we make sure and apply our highly moral stance to arms sales.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

Why would that be excusing ISIS. Do you actually know anything about ISIS. How they formed, how they got the arms they needed? If you think the history behind how ISIS grew is somehow excusing them, you need to go and have a serious word with yourself.

Spare me! I don’t need to have a word with myself as I simply don’t care about any of it.

[jet]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

So it doesn't matter is you are complicit in the killing of innocent people for money? Right so from now on should I hear on this forum any mention of anyone cosying up to anyone as they align themselves with those who kill I will just quote this. Thank you.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...bia-high-court

So it doesn't matter if you are complicit in the killing of innocent people as long as you don't do it for money?

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Spare me! I don’t need to have a word with myself as I simply don’t care about any of it.

I know you don't but you still have this urge to make me out as a terrorist sympathizer!

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by jet

So it doesn't matter if you are complicit in the killing of innocent people as long as you don't do it for money?

In what universe did I say it didn't matter if you are complicit in the killing of innocent people as long as it wasn't for money....I know for damn sure it wasn't this one!

Do not put words in my mouth please!