[Jamie89]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Basically I think if someone says something with the obvious INTENT of causing upset, then it doesn't really matter whether or not it's "just a fact". In fact, often it's worse if it IS the truth.

Tl;Dr preying on someone's insecurities to deliberately upset them isn't OK just because the thing they're insecure about is true.

Originally Posted by Dezzy

What a ridiculous reach.

Anne doesn't represent everyone with Aspergers and guess what? People with Aspergers can be arseholes regardless of their condition. She didn't say it as a blunt fact, she said it to be rude because she was losing the argument

That being said, I don't think what she said was particularly transphobic, she was being an arsehole but I wouldn't say she's transphobic just based on that.

My thoughts exactly.

edited to add, I don't think she should actually lose her job over it though. I do think she was trying to shut down Paris and it was very rude and unnecessary, but her judgement over choosing to say it/knowing how hurtful it might be, was most likely affected by her aspergers, so the show should show leniency.

Originally Posted by Brillopad

She is entitled to her opinions. It isn't for anyone to PC her.

Although she only said it in the first place because she was trying to shut down Paris' opinion because it opposed hers.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

It was rude and pretty unnecessary.

But Ann is Autistic, and as such is likely to have issues understanding the way we are supposed to effectively LIE when it comes to transpeople

And Paris did grown up as a boy.

Having autism could lead her to be blunt about it in an outright factual way; e.g. Let's say the conversation was about... The hazards of using a urinal, or catching your willy in your fly zip, an autistic person might say "Oh but you'll understand because you used to be male and had a penis" without thinking or realising that that might "cause offence". That's one thing.

Suggesting that someone should "know all about the old boy's club" because they "used to be a boy" is nothing more than a deliberate jibe

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Having autism could lead her to be blunt about it in an outright factual way; e.g. Let's say the conversation was about... The hazards of using a urinal, or catching your willy in your fly zip, an autistic person might say "Oh but you'll understand because you used to be male and had a penis" without thinking or realising that that might "cause offence". That's one thing.

Suggesting that someone should "know all about the old boy's club" because they "used to be a boy" is nothing more than a deliberate jibe

Oh I get the 'you would know about old boys club as you are male' is pretty nonsensical.

But this she is transphobic as she acknowledges that Paris is male rather than politely lying about it and pretending that transwomen were always girls and such as we are apparently supposed to do...well thats likely to be Aspergers

Was an attempt at a snide comment. Which tbf, is pretty much what shes known for. So the reaction and demanding she is sacked and such is pretty stupid

I reckon if she had been talking to a normal bloke who had said the same stuff, she would have said 'oh well you are male, you would know' or whatever. Kind of glad she did not actually say this to paris, as even though paris is male, it would have caused MUCH more hell on than 'you used to be male'

[Kizzy]

I say that was fair comment.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

I think she was right. We cant deny our past ever existed

Well whether or not that she's right that she "used to be a boy". It wasn't relevant or appropriate to the discussion.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

She said "used to be a boy", not "you're really a man". Obviously having been a probably somewhat effeminate boy before transition doesn't make Paris an expert on the "patriarchy" so it's a bit null, but she was a boy.

Nobody said it made her an expert though?

Ann, however, made out that because she "used to be a boy" it somehow invalidated her opinion?

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Rob!

"You used to be a boy" is the sort of blatant fact that Aspergers people will just come out with though. I doubt it would have even occured to Anne that she was being offensive tbh

If she just randomly said to her "you used to be a boy" then it would be a bit "Oh, ok thanks for that" but she said it as though to shut down the other one's opinion.

I don't feel it was transphobic in anyway whatsoever but it didn't put Anne and her debating skills in a good light at all.

It would be like debating nose piercings in schools and then one guest randomly says "Well you have a big fat CONK so you would know". It might be factual but it's also irrelevant to what they were talking about.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

She is entitled to her opinions. It isn't for anyone to PC her.

And everyone else has a right to discuss it. It's isn't for you to PC them.

[LaLaLand]

Anne is savage!!

[Ammi]

...there are varying degrees of Aspergers...so it’s hard to say if it was meant ‘to close down’...or just her ‘logical’ thought pattern of...well you have spent time as a ‘boy’, so you would know ‘boy’s clubs’ etc...Aspergers don’t have thoughts of, oh that was offensive or hurtful or anything...the syndrome doesn’t ‘sense’ feelings or diplomacy in the same way as others who aren’t Aspergers...in childhood though, or through childhood when diagnosed...many ‘skills’ are learned...which enable things like that to be said less in adulthood...but then, that would also depend on when in her life she was diagnosed and how much help she got with those ‘skills’...because that’s more a fairly recent thing, so maybe not so much of ‘her time’...so yeah, it’s hard to say, even in watching it...oooops though...

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Jonnii

Anne is savage!!

...yeah she is, Jonnie....I have to say I haven’t watched The Chase that much...but just looking at the vid just now, I watched her Chase with Ann Widdecombe....a small clip....and she’s definately a ‘match’ for Anne......

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

If she just randomly said to her "you used to be a boy" then it would be a bit "Oh, ok thanks for that" but she said it as though to shut down the other one's opinion.

I don't feel it was transphobic in anyway whatsoever but it didn't put Anne and her debating skills in a good light at all.

It would be like debating nose piercings in schools and then one guest randomly says "Well you have a big fat CONK so you would know". It might be factual but it's also irrelevant to what they were talking about.

..that’s the thing though, Marsh...(..obviously it can’t be completely generalised because some Aspergers do have excellent debating skills..)...but ‘debating skills’ is not something generally associated with Aspergers...so yeah, those skills were not shown in a good light...because for her it would be more..a quick, sharp, ‘truth’.../type response and thought...the ‘strength’ that’s more ‘typical’ and would be shown in The Chase as a chaser, something she excels at I believe...a little cynic in me feels, well they would know that in having her as a guest on a debate show...and maybe hoping for a ‘controversial’ remark...and hey, we’re back in the news, guys...Anne did that, that’s what we hoped for...she didn’t let us down...Oooops...

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

And everyone else has a right to discuss it. It's isn't for you to PC them.

Slag her off you mean.

[Withano]

***** thing to say, but I doubt she meant it to be that way. Just a woman knowing that shes losing a debate so resulted to desperate petty playground tactics. See it happen a lot here.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Slag her off you mean.

From your perspective.

Never fails to amaze me how you bleat about this forum apparently trying to shut you down and now allow you to have your opinion whilst simultaneously telling everyone else how they're not allowed an opinion.

Hypocrite.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

From your perspective.

Never fails to amaze me how you bleat about this forum apparently trying to shut you down and now allow you to have your opinion whilst simultaneously telling everyone else how they're not allowed an opinion.

Hypocrite.

If so I’m in the right place as the forum is full of them. Takes on to know one.

[jaxie]

People with autism of which asbergers is a condition are different, and there are wildly varying levels of different from not being able to communicate at all to very intelligent communicative skills. They can be cherubs or quite physically violent. However some things are a bit of a trend of the condition, they see the world differently, can be socially and emotionally awkward and don't have the same filters as other people. I spent a few years working with autistic children and what Anne said was pretty typical asbergers in my view. Just a blunt statement of the obvious.

It isn't transphobic to state the obvious and anyone offended by that really needs to grow a thicker skin.

[Jamie89]

Originally Posted by jaxie

People with autism of which asbergers is a condition are different, and there are wildly varying levels of different from not being able to communicate at all to very intelligent communicative skills. They can be cherubs or quite physically violent. However some things are a bit of a trend of the condition, they see the world differently, can be socially and emotionally awkward and don't have the same filters as other people. I spent a few years working with autistic children and what Anne said was pretty typical asbergers in my view. Just a blunt statement of the obvious.

It isn't transphobic to state the obvious and anyone offended by that really needs to grow a thicker skin.

I agree she probably wasn't meaning to be transphobic, when I first watched it I didn't know she has aspergers so I thought she was just being cruel, but watching it knowing I doubt that was the case. But regarding the bit in bold I think it's also understandable that trans people might be offended. They can't control their gender dysphoria much like Anne can't control her aspergers and comments like that would most likely trigger it so I don't think it's really a case of them just needing a thicker skin to be fair.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Jamie89

I agree she probably wasn't meaning to be transphobic, when I first watched it I didn't know she has aspergers so I thought she was just being cruel, but watching it knowing I doubt that was the case. But regarding the bit in bold I think it's also understandable that trans people might be offended. They can't control their gender dysphoria much like Anne can't control her aspergers and comments like that would most likely trigger it so I don't think it's really a case of them just needing a thicker skin to be fair.

I think it has a lot to do with growing a thicker skin tbh. Just like you say they can't control their condition, they also cannot control others perceptions of them which stands just as much for someone on the autism spectrum as for someone who wants to be a different sex. Other people will not understand, will find it weird, in both cases and unless they accept that they will find a great deal of unhappiness. You cannot force people to see you how you want to be seen so you have to accept that is life and get on with it without butthurt drams every time someone says something unpleasant to you.

I have a friend who has a weight problem and she has been the victim of nasty remarks in public many times. A lot nastier than someone noting you used to be a boy. She can't control other people either. So she's had to grow a thicker skin too.

[DemolitionRed]

We don't get to decide what should or shouldn't affect another person. I've never been able to work out what a "thicker skin" even means! Does it mean we can't be offended or hurt anymore? That our world will turn to a much happier place because we won't be exposed or put on the spot? Does it mean we are not allowed to care? Is being sensitive the opposite of being strong?

[Maru]

I don't understand why this is news. (Not panning you Nom, just why these always circulate in the media) The comment was obviously meant to be cutting... but I don't see why then magnify it beyond the level of what it actually warrants? I don't think society is that fragile? Whether she meant it in truth or out of medical, would feel irrelevant to me and somewhat inappropriate to the target of the comment... because it wouldn't invalidate the problematic nature of that commentary and obviously her hurt feelings if any existed...

She didn't respond, so apparently she didn't think it worth that much to make a big scene over it... I think more power to her for rising above it. But why the media needs to amplify every small case of stupiditis, I will never get... it feels like we're rewarding it by putting a bright yellow sticker next to it and giving it a national platform. Must have been a boring episode if this was the only thing worth commenting on...

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Maru

I don't understand why this is news. (Not panning you Nom, just why these always circulate in the media) The comment was obviously meant to be cutting... but I don't see why then magnify it beyond the level of what it actually warrants? I don't think society is that fragile? Whether she meant it in truth or out of medical, would feel irrelevant to me and somewhat inappropriate to the target of the comment... because it wouldn't invalidate the problematic nature of that commentary and obviously her hurt feelings if any existed...

She didn't respond, so apparently she didn't think it worth that much to make a big scene over it... I think more power to her for rising above it. But why the media needs to amplify every small case of stupiditis, I will never get... it feels like we're rewarding it by putting a bright yellow sticker next to it and giving it a national platform. Must have been a boring episode if this was the only thing worth commenting on...

"Because it sells". The answer to why the media does anything.

"Outrage and indignation" is big business.

[Jamie89]

Originally Posted by jaxie

I think it has a lot to do with growing a thicker skin tbh. Just like you say they can't control their condition, they also cannot control others perceptions of them which stands just as much for someone on the autism spectrum as for someone who wants to be a different sex. Other people will not understand, will find it weird, in both cases and unless they accept that they will find a great deal of unhappiness. You cannot force people to see you how you want to be seen so you have to accept that is life and get on with it without butthurt drams every time someone says something unpleasant to you.

I have a friend who has a weight problem and she has been the victim of nasty remarks in public many times. A lot nastier than someone noting you used to be a boy. She can't control other people either. So she's had to grow a thicker skin too.

I don't doubt they'd be a lot happier if they didn't suffer from it but I'm just saying that having a mental disorder like gender dysphoria isn't their fault and if it is triggered I don't think they can really be blamed for that .We don't tell people with depression to 'just cheer up' much in the same way as a person can't really be told not to feel dysphoric, it sets it apart from everyday comments/criticisms we all get that might offend us for whatever reason where toughening up could be beneficial. Or like your friend for example with the weight problems, I don't know if she suffers from an eating disorder but people who do would be far less able to cope well with comments about their weight because that inability to cope is directly linked to a mental disorder, compared to somebody who has weight problems but no associated mental condition.

[bitontheslide]

Its fine for an individual to be offended by someone or something, and everyone's threshold for taking offence is different, so no problem there. The problem I have is with people taking offence on others behalf when its just not necessary. If i was down the pub or at the cinema and I got offended about something, i wouldn't go round everyone there asking for their support and for them to be offended too. It makes no sense. So why does it become acceptable online or in the media? It's just plain daft.

[Maru]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

"Because it sells". The answer to why the media does anything.

"Outrage and indignation" is big business.

Oh yes and the fast food and carbonated beverage industry are big business... all terrible things for our well-being, but very addicting. We don't know even notice what we are doing it to ourselves...