[Toy Soldier]

... Involved in heated threads.

Continued from SD;

Because when someone says something personal, and yes completely unfair, to another member then their post is deleted and they get an infraction, which is completely right.

But when the same thing happens and a mod is on the receiving end, the thread gets locked, and if you comment on the thread being locked, that thread is locked too and you get blocked from making new threads in the section completely.

This represents a two-tier system of forum membership and illustrates exactly why people feel like they can't engage naturally in threads with "mods posting as members" no matter how much those mods insist that they can keep their capacity as a mod and their capacity as a member separate.

So just to note;

I think what was said to Niamh in the thread I question was awful and also, from what I know of her, completely untrue.

However I think that the response is knee-jerk, over the top, a complete abuse of power, and a double standard.

Also I'll say that I have no idea if it was Niamh herself who started locking & blocking, it may well not have been, but it was certainly because it was a moderator on the receiving end of a hurtful comment.

My personal opinion on this is that the forum is now at a point where mods need to choose between being a non-staff member, or being a mod and staying impartial in contentious threads.

Being both quite clearly doesn't work, for various reasons.

[Marsh.]

I agree. Although, I was under the impression if a mod was heavily involved in a discussion thread, they just left it to another mod to do all of the moderating. Sometimes, this doesn't seem to be the case.

It's quite telling that it took a comment to Niamh to get the thread locked, but not everything that came before it.

[Marsh.]

I also don't understand why you have been blocked? I didn't see any rule breaking?

[caprimint]

What was said??? Who said it? What's the drama?

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

I agree. Although, I was under the impression if a mod was heavily involved in a discussion thread, they just left it to another mod to do all of the moderating. Sometimes, this doesn't seem to be the case.

The thing is I don't think it matters. All of the mods have been mods for a long time, they have their own personal subforum, and are likely to be inclined to defend each other. And the response is too often disproportionate whether it's the mod who was actually involved in the thread or not who is taking action.

I'm not going to pretend that that thread wasn't a mess but the timing of it being locked and masses of posts being purged, and the removal of my thread-posting privileges for pointing it out, suggests that it's not a simple coincidence that exactly then was when it was deemed to have "gone too far".

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

The thing is I don't think it matters. All of the mods have been mods for a long time, they have their own personal subforum, and are likely to be inclined to defend each other. And the response is too often disproportionate whether it's the mod who was actually involved in the thread or not who is taking action.

I'm not going to pretend that that thread wasn't a mess but the timing of it being locked and masses of posts being purged, and the removal of my thread-posting privileges for pointing it out, suggests that it's not a simple coincidence that exactly then was when it was deemed to have "gone too far".

Completely agree.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

I also don't understand why you have been blocked? I didn't see any rule breaking?

I suppose because I made a follow up thread on a locked thread? I'm not banned from the section, I can reply to threads, I just can't make new threads there apparently.

I get why it's a rule break but, again, it's not an action I've EVER seen taken before which suggests to me that "emotions are running high" with moderation, and that is something that really needs some consideration .

[RileyH]

Originally Posted by caprimint

What was said??? Who said it? What's the drama?

[AnnieK]

To be fair, there was an announcement in sd that this kind if ban would be trialled.

[Fetch The Bolt Cutters]

just get rid of serious debates

[Niamh.]

Excuse me, first of all I didn't lock the thread or do any of the modding on it and none of it was to do with what was said to me.

[Cherie]

There is a rule that mods shouldn't moderate in threads they are actively participating in, not sure how well observed that is

that said the personal comment to Niamh was totally unfair, and should have been removed as there really wasn't any need to go so low, I think the thread has maybe reached its natural conclusion and maybe that is why it was locked, other threads have been locked in the same way, in such a contentious thread a note from whoever locked it might have defused the need for further threads.

[Vicky.]

Threads get locked when they have descended into bickering baiting nonsense. The reason they are locked as they are cleaned is because otherwise the bickering continues while someone is deleting pages and pages of threads, and then by the time its cleaned there is another load to go. This has happened near forever. If the thread is considered saveable, it is reopened after deletions. there are around 150 deletions in that thread now, both from when james locked it, and when I did. That thread has been locked twice to be cleaned already. A third time I reckon it will remain locked.

And niamh did not lock the thread either. Nor moderate in there.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

To be fair, there was an announcement in sd that this kind if ban would be trialled.

It wasn't me who "said wot got said", though, all I did was point out what I see as heavy handed and emotionally driven moderating. The response to which was... Some more heavy handed and emotionally driven moderating.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

To be fair, there was an announcement in sd that this kind if ban would be trialled.

True. But there's a double standard in the application.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

It wasn't me who "said wot got said", though, all I did was point out what I see as heavy handed and emotionally driven moderating. The response to which was... Some more heavy handed and emotionally driven moderating.

Except, you are completely wrong, as it is just an assumption that is was niamh. I have just got back from a party with my daughter and the thread had grown by hundreds of posts, read through it, saw all of the nonsense and locked it to delete the nonsense (and yes, the personal comment to niamh, which I am actually considering giving an outright ban for as it was very below the belt and that member only ever comes on to have a go at mods anyway), then re-opened it, as is pretty standard.

Figured it was fine for me to do this, as I had barely been involved in the thread, and was definitely not involved in the bickering stuff.

But no doubt I was still wrong.

As for

My personal opinion on this is that the forum is now at a point where mods need to choose between being a non-staff member, or being a mod and staying impartial in contentious threads.

Good luck finding someone willing to moderate who does not post.

I have been asking for a while to be de-modded as I just cannot be arsed with the way we are always in the wrong and accused of being biased, and how some members seem to think we should not have opinions as mods.

I genuinely am sick to the back teeth of this forum and how nothing is ever right and stuff.

[AnnieK]

I don't actually know when I closed, after my last comment I went to cook dinner and when I got back it had been locked down. Was only saying about the ban thing because TS said he hadn't seen someone get this kind of ban before.

Will add though that modding this type of site must be a ****ing nightmare. Big characters with big opinions....I know other mods have been accused of bias too but have always said they don't mod threads they are involved in.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Excuse me, first of all I didn't lock the thread or do any of the modding on it and none of it was to do with what was said to me.

Originally Posted by Vicky.

And niamh did not lock the thread either. Nor moderate in there.

Like I said above... I don't think that really matters. And I flat put don't believe that it wasn't that comment that prompted a lock n purge. The timing is far too coincidental.

And here's where the real problem lies - even if I'm totally wrong, even if this ISN'T an example of staff loyalty / rallying round and everything being said by staff in response is the 100% honest truth... The fact that it has to be taken on faith and there's a question mark hanging over it is still a problem, and still makes me think that being "normal member sometimes mod sometimes" simply isn't working. There is a power implication that affects normal interaction. There is always a question of how hard you can push before someone with the power to do so starts taking action. I know there are a few members who are having this issue and honestly I hadn't given it all THAT much thought until it was raised but... ... It's a problem.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

It wasn't me who "said wot got said", though, all I did was point out what I see as heavy handed and emotionally driven moderating. The response to which was... Some more heavy handed and emotionally driven moderating.

Its always heavy handed when its you (royal you) on the recieving end though. I mean, what did you think was going to happen with that thread? How many times have you seen threads closed, cleaned and re-opened? Surely everyone knows this is pretty usual, but suddenly, because a member had said something to niamh, its considered some kind of conspiracy or something.

In that thread, we had members calling for another to be banned. If that member had been banned, that would have been great. However, when its them on the receiving end, all of a sudden its biased and heavy handed.

I think this will be my last post in here..as I can already see how this is going to go. Admin will probably comment when they come on. But I am not getting into a load of 'omgs mods are so biased' stuff, where its just another pile onto the staff and loads of assumptions made.

**** that. Enjoy the ranting all

[Marsh.]

I do think modding became far less transparent, which leads to a lot of the distrust.

But, there's been 100 threads moaning one way or the other about that. It doesn't affect James' decisions.

Even though it's not just members tbh, but some mods who've had enough too.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Like I said above... I don't think that really matters. And I flat put don't believe that it wasn't that comment that prompted a lock n purge. The timing is far too coincidental.

And here's where the real problem lies - even if I'm totally wrong, even if this ISN'T an example of staff loyalty / rallying round and everything being said by staff in response is the 100% honest truth... The fact that it has to be taken on faith and there's a question mark hanging over it is still a problem, and still makes me think that being "normal member sometimes mod sometimes" simply isn't working. There is a power implication that affects normal interaction. There is always a question of how hard you can push before someone with the power to do so starts taking action. I know there are a few members who are having this issue and honestly I hadn't given it all THAT much thought until it was raised but... ... It's a problem.

Believe whatever you want, you're wrong though.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Believe whatever you want, you're wrong though.

Well indeed. I can say that I came back online at Today, 05:33 PM. Started looking at the few hundred extra comments at Today, 05:34 PM. Locked thread at Today, 05:41 PM as I said

Originally Posted by Vicky.

-removed part discussing bans -
Think I will lock it while I am checking it tbh

and got to Mokkas comment at Today, 05:47 PM. As this is documented in the admin forum by my comments in a thread about bans from the serious debates section.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Believe whatever you want, you're wrong though.

I believe that it wasn't you who started taking mod action but I also believe that it was prompted by another staff member feeling loyal / defensive . If it wasn't you who closed the thread then you can't possibly know which post prompted it being closed.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I believe that it wasn't you who started taking mod action but I also believe that it was prompted by another staff member feeling loyal / defensive . If it wasn't you who closed the thread then you can't possibly know which post prompted it being closed.

Well I can know that because we were discussing it with MTVN before Mokka even made the comment to me, both Matt and Vicky then went offline and I had already decided not to mod that thread, then Vicky came back online and started cleaning the thread. But I don't know why I'm even bothering to tell you this anyway because you've already decided you're own narrative

[bitontheslide]

well i just want it noted for the record that I greatly respect Niamh and Vicky's posts and their moderating across a number of years.