[Niamh.]

Thanks for the timeline LT, but unlike you I've been following this case very closely all the way through so it's unnecessary

@Vicky, I know right? It makes zero logical sense to say she felt humiliated so then decides to draw as much attention to it as possible.......weird logic indeed

[LeatherTrumpet]

This comment from a member of the public who was at the trial..

"I was in the public gallery with work purposes for the most of the duration of this trial. While I wasn't comfortable with a lot of the treatment the complaint had during the trial, on hearing all of the evidence the verdict was correct. I'm going to guess all the #IBelieveHer supporters didn't hear every single detail of this case otherwise they'd have the same conclusion as the jurors. I think while these men have shown how they speak about women is disgusting on many levels, it isn't against the law and they should now be left alone. I'd also like to add I went in to report on this case wanting to believe this woman and to an extend I did, but after the 10 weeks I couldn't upon hearing everything."


From the DM article

[ethanjames]

#ibelieveher my heart breaks for the victims </3

[smudgie]

#scumbags either way.

[Underscore]

#ibelieveher

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by smudgie

#scumbags either way.

indeed, lets hope the IRFU make the right call and drop the scumbags

[AnnieK]

Having sat through a rape trial of a close family member, the treatment they get really is what makes rape reports so low. In my case she knew the guy, went back to his willingly and was trying to leave when he raped her. She had slept with him before, was single and a fun loving girl. On this night, she did not want to sleep with him. He forced her. I was called on the night, saw her covered in bruises and in obvious pain down below. Went through the trial (oh and the delightful threats from his friends and family before the trial), the defence brought up her sexual past but the prosecution were unable to bring up he had previous charges against him for similar. He got found not guilty.....no way he didn't do it but not enough evidence as his word against his. This girl has now said she would never recommend anyone reports a rape - it near on destroyed her.
#ibelieveher

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

Having sat through a rape trial of a close family member, the treatment they get really is what makes rape reports so low. In my case she knew the guy, went back to his willingly and was trying to leave when he raped her. She had slept with him before, was single and a fun loving girl. On this night, she did not want to sleep with him. He forced her. I was called on the night, saw her covered in bruises and in obvious pain down below. Went through the trial (oh and the delightful threats from his friends and family before the trial), the defence brought up her sexual past but the prosecution were unable to bring up he had previous charges against him for similar. He got found not guilty.....no way he didn't do it but not enough evidence as his word against his. This girl has now said she would never recommend anyone reports a rape - it near on destroyed her.
#ibelieveher

That's awful Annie but unfortunately not at all surprising. I'm baffled that people still come out with the "oh she regretted it so cried rape" it just makes no logical sense what so ever

[thesheriff443]

Spit roasts have been going for years especially footballers and they get treated like gods.
These are not men but animals.

But a woman has to keep her wits about her going home with and a man you just met and to go with more than one man you have only just met is asking for trouble.

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

That's awful Annie but unfortunately not at all surprising. I'm baffled that people still come out with the "of she regretted it so cried rape" it just makes no logical sense what so ever

The problem is Niamh women have been found guilty of crying rape.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

The problem is Niamh women have been found guilty of crying rape.

Found guilty of crying rape, how many cases of that can you find?

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

Spit roasts have been going for years especially footballers and they get treated like gods.
These are not men but animals.

But a woman has to keep her wits about her going home with and a man you just met and to go with more than one man you have only just met is asking for trouble.

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

The problem is Niamh women have been found guilty of crying rape.

The vicious circle a woman gets trapped in - your responsibility to not put yourself in a position where you could get raped and also you're a liar if you say you are but you don't need safe spaces because not not all men are bad, why are you so paranoid?

[bitontheslide]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

The problem is Niamh women have been found guilty of crying rape.

the problem is that many women have been raped and said nothing for fear of not being believed

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

Having sat through a rape trial of a close family member, the treatment they get really is what makes rape reports so low. In my case she knew the guy, went back to his willingly and was trying to leave when he raped her. She had slept with him before, was single and a fun loving girl. On this night, she did not want to sleep with him. He forced her. I was called on the night, saw her covered in bruises and in obvious pain down below. Went through the trial (oh and the delightful threats from his friends and family before the trial), the defence brought up her sexual past but the prosecution were unable to bring up he had previous charges against him for similar. He got found not guilty.....no way he didn't do it but not enough evidence as his word against his. This girl has now said she would never recommend anyone reports a rape - it near on destroyed her.
#ibelieveher

Thats awful, but not surprising.

I did not report when I was raped as I knew the guy, and I had also had a drink...literally one drink mind (which I suspect was spiked too) but even a tiny bit of alcohol makes it the womans fault. I knew there would be nothing came of it if I did report, I would just have to relive it over and over (the parts I could remember, which luckily was not very much) and be called a liar and such so **** that. I would also have been told that I had consented, whilst in and out of consciousness, and no doubt that I consented to the multiple injuries I was left with,. as women just like it rough right..rough enough to be left black and blue and in pain for days.

Was talking about this in the admin thread yesterday actually. I don't think I would even report it if it was what people view as a 'real rape'...violent and by a stranger in an alley. It would still be my fault, and no matter how much physical evidence, it would be disregarded as women just lie all the time in order to ruin mens lives of course. Even random men they do not know, coz women are just spiteful. Or I would be doing it for compensation, despite turning down cash offered in order to shush. Its always the womans fault, and when it cannot be blamed on her, then she is just lying

I could not deal with reliving over and over. I could not deal with people deciding that because he was found not guilty, this means I lied. I could not deal with any of it and would rather internalize everything and just try to get past it tbh.

I did not realise until this case either, that videos of your vagina can be shown to the courtroom. Thats yet another reason to not report.

Originally Posted by Niamh.

The vicious circle a woman gets trapped in - your responsibility to not put yourself in a position where you could get raped and also you're a liar if you say you are but you don't need safe spaces because not not all men are bad, why are you so paranoid?

Indeed..

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

The vicious circle a woman gets trapped in - your responsibility to not put yourself in a position where you could get raped and also you're a liar if you say you are but you don't need safe spaces because not not all men are bad, why are you so paranoid?

Very true

[Withano]

Hardly any rape cases get justice, because how are you gonna compile the evidence. Rapists dont tend to choose a spot with witnesses, nor let the victim take photographic evidence during the act.

I dont have a solution, just a complaint.

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Withano

Hardly any rape cases get justice, because how are you gonna compile the evidence. Rapists dont tend to choose a spot with witnesses, nor let the victim take photographic evidence during the act.

I dont have a solution, just a complaint.

like murders, muggings etc you mean?

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

Spit roasts have been going for years especially footballers and they get treated like gods.
These are not men but animals.

But a woman has to keep her wits about her going home with and a man you just met and to go with more than one man you have only just met is asking for trouble.

correct.

[Toy Soldier]

To be fair, the more I think about this, I am starting to find the hashtagging / twitter campaigning sort of worrying? It's not that I don't believe her, it's not that I don't think these guys are scumbags, but I do think it's part of a dangerous precedent. What will be the point of the justice system AT ALL if, when the verdict isn't agreed with, social media en-masse can simply carry out a new "trial", minus all of the evidence of an actual trial, and effectively "create a new result"? Isn't it all a bit dystopian? These guys may well be guilty, but how long until going to trial at all is as good as being found guilty of any crime, thanks to "viral justice"? How long before someone who is actually innocent, and whose case is thrown out of court on solid evidence, is nonetheless a victim of vigilante re-trial where that evidence isn't available or isn't widely seen?

I dunno. It just isn't sitting well. Our justice system isn't perfect but it's something that's been refined over centuries to try to get the right result at least MOST of the time... and for that system to go out the window in favour of Facebook and Twitter - the most emotionally unstable and dim-witted platforms in existence - presents a huge problem.

[Amy Jade]

I believe her. Disgusting outcome.

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

To be fair, the more I think about this, I am starting to find the hashtagging / twitter campaigning sort of worrying? It's not that I don't believe her, it's not that I don't think these guys are scumbags, but I do think it's part of a dangerous precedent. What will be the point of the justice system AT ALL if, when the verdict isn't agreed with, social media en-masse can simply carry out a new "trial", minus all of the evidence of an actual trial, and effectively "create a new result"? Isn't it all a bit dystopian? These guys may well be guilty, but how long until going to trial at all is as good as being found guilty of any crime, thanks to "viral justice"? How long before someone who is actually innocent, and whose case is thrown out of court on solid evidence, is nonetheless a victim of vigilante re-trial where that evidence isn't available or isn't widely seen?

I dunno. It just isn't sitting well. Our justice system isn't perfect but it's something that's been refined over centuries to try to get the right result at least MOST of the time... and for that system to go out the window in favour of Facebook and Twitter - the most emotionally unstable and dim-witted platforms in existence - presents a huge problem.

Precisely. It's mob justice at its worst

[Tom4784]

It's a complete travesty of a trial but indicative of how most rape trials go. Rape trials are just character assassinations of the victims where they are untrustworthy until proven otherwise, it's not wonder report rates of rape is so low, who would want to put themselves through that?

The way rape trials are handled must change because the way this and so many other rape trials were handled were beyond disgusting, these rugby players were not on trial, it wasn't a trial about rape, it was a trial determining how many ways the court could blame the victim for what happened.

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

It's a complete travesty of a trial but indicative of how most rape trials go. Rape trials are just character assassinations of the victims where they are untrustworthy until proven otherwise, it's not wonder report rates of rape is so low, who would want to put themselves through that?

The way rape trials are handled must change because the way this and so many other rape trials were handled were beyond disgusting, these rugby players were not on trial, it wasn't a trial about rape, it was a trial determining how many ways the court could blame the victim for what happened.

How many days were you there?

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

the problem is that many women have been raped and said nothing for fear of not being believed

That's also true

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

How many days were you there?

I'm not going to debate with you if you don't even believe what you are saying.