[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by scarface95

I'm well aware that the Scummy Pervert is fully in the wrong thank you very much. I was just Pointing out that the Victims had/ Have the Power to Prevent such Horrible and Traumatizing Experiences to Occur to some other Unfortunate Innocent Lives and Rather than doing the right thing and reporting it to the Police and the authorities, They decide to keep quiet , Knowing full well the Psycho is still out there Hunting their next Victim.

If i was the Victim of an Assault, Knowing full well how horrible it is and not wanting a repeat, I would do everything in my power to make sure the perpetrator is Brought to Justice and Behind Bars and i would not rest until i have Accomplished it.

How lovely for you and your hypothetical scenario.

Meanwhile, people actually experiencing it in the real world know it's far more complicated than that.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

I doubt it , De Niro is an arrogant untouchable fella that will probably never be accused of anything . But then again anything is possible .

I have to say though i didn't think they'd target Morgan Freeman , i always wonder who's next to be accused though but didn't see it being Morgan freeman who's in his 80's . I call BS on the whole thing .

Why does it always take them so long to come forward to report these terrible "sexual harassment's" if it's so upsetting and traumatic why not say anything at the time , also i bet at the time Morgan was joking or being friendly and these women have spun the whole thing around with warped accusations .

As i've always said when it comes to these "sexual harassment" claims , what is sexual harassment ? because ever since weinstein it's now got to the stage where men can no longer compliment women , hug them or joke or have banter as it's now considered perverted & wrong.

Of course if these women were flirting with morgan or joking with him it's all ok of course ?? .

Omg??? He's in his 80s????

Well that's ok then. Phew. I thought he was like... 40.

But he's 80+ so he's a saint. Haha.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Bleating about what they SHOULD have done is blaming them.

Dress it up all you want Kirk, it is what it is.

Misrepresented? Maybe watch the words you're using and agreeing with in future. You're blaming the victim in the case.

That is YOUR skewed misinterpretation - READ Scarface's post and then mine and Kaz's responses.

Scarface made a relevant point and THAT point we agreed with.

It is no different to Jimmy The Bastard Saville's case where BBC Officials, Nurses and doctors, even Police Officers, KNEW what he had done and was still doing - in addition to certain MATURE victims - and if SOMEONE had found the courage to actually GO PUBLIC and accuse him way back then all the victims who followed might have been spared.

Even with Weinstein, the fact that some victims did not make complaints to the police through selfish reasons of fear of losing their careers meant that the bastard continued to traumatise later victims.

Ditto Bill Cosby.

That is MY opinion, and evidently, Scarface's and Kaz's and we are entitled to it for the most logical of reasons, so no one is dressing anything up.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

That is YOUR skewed misinterpretation - READ Scarface's post and then mine and Kaz's responses.

Scarface made a relevant point and THAT point we agreed with.

It is no different to Jimmy The Bastard Saville's case where BBC Officials, Nurses and doctors, even Police Officers, KNEW what he had done and was still doing - in addition to certain MATURE victims - and if SOMEONE had found the courage to actually GO PUBLIC and accuse him way back then all the victims who followed might have been spared.

Even with Weinstein, the fact that some victims did not make complaints to the police through selfish reasons of fear of losing their careers meant that the bastard continued to traumatise later victims.

Ditto Bill Cosby.

That is MY opinion, and evidently, Scarface's and Kaz's and we are entitled to it for the most logical of reasons, so no one is dressing anything up.

I've read them. I know it's your opinion, no need for capitals.

You're blaming the victims and let's hope you learn from this moving forward.

People covering up a man's sick rape of children is absolutely no comparison to rape and assault victims not reporting their own attacks. Well done on attempting to demonise them more.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

I've read them. I know it's your opinion, no need for capitals.

You're blaming the victims and let's hope you learn from this moving forward.

People covering up a man's sick rape of children is absolutely no comparison to rape and assault victims not reporting their own attacks. Well done on attempting to demonise them more.

A debate I will have, a sober discussion I will have, but I am not into futility and flogging dead horses.

Goodnight.

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Omg??? He's in his 80s????

Well that's ok then. Phew. I thought he was like... 40.

But he's 80+ so he's a saint. Haha.

Hilarious i forgot to laugh , the point i'm making is why is all this only coming out now ?? if he's been doing it for a while .

It's a sad world we live in , it use to be innocent until proven guilty but these days it's always 'GUILTY ARREST HIM ARREST HIM' .

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

A debate I will have, a sober discussion I will have, but I am not into futility and flogging dead horses.

Goodnight.

Saying you're not blaming victims and then blaming the victims is nonsensical Kirk.

Maybe you'll see that in the morning.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

Hilarious i forgot to laugh , the point i'm making is why is all this only coming out now ?? if he's been doing it for a while .

It's a sad world we live in , it use to be innocent until proven guilty but these days it's always 'GUILTY ARREST HIM ARREST HIM' .

2015 is hardly that long ago.

Why now? Because the current climate is supporting the victims of this kind of systematic abuse.

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Saying you're not blaming victims and then blaming the victims is nonsensical Kirk.

Maybe you'll see that in the morning.

But what about people who get falsely accused all the time?!

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

But what about people who get falsely accused all the time?!

So... he's innocent until proven guilty.... but you can say they're "falsely accused"?

Who's falsely accused all the time? Names? Proof?

You can't have it both ways.

In this specific case with Morgan Freeman, he's apologising. You don't apologise for things you didn't do.

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

2015 is hardly that long ago.

Why now? Because the current climate is supporting the victims of this kind of systematic abuse.

Again why is it only just coming out now ? and it wasn't just 2015 apparently in 2013 on the set of now you see me he leered at women and told them to "twirl for him" seriously it all sounds ridiculous and it sounds like any little thing is being blown out of proportion .

We've gone from inappropriate touching to just looking at a woman? and both are considered "harassment" ? Hmm i wonder if Michael Cain will be in trouble next .

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

Again why is it only just coming out now ?

I answered that.

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

So... he's innocent until proven guilty.... but you can say they're "falsely accused"?

Who's falsely accused all the time? Names? Proof?

You can't have it both ways.

In this specific case with Morgan Freeman, he's apologising. You don't apologise for things you didn't do.

But what is he apologising for exactly though !??? it isn't as straight forward as that , he could be just apologising incase he's worried he made women feel uncomfortable . As like i said men are afraid to compliment or joke with women as they get accused of being a pervert etc .

Sometimes people just apologise in general even when they've done nothing wrong as they feel it shows respect .

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

But what is he apologising for exactly though !??? it isn't as straight forward as that , he could be just apologising incase he's worried he made women feel uncomfortable . As like i said men are afraid to compliment or joke with women as they get accused of being a pervert etc .

And making women feel uncomfortable isn't a bad thing?

Where has anyone been accused of being a pervert for giving a compliment?

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

Sometimes people just apologise in general even when they've done nothing wrong as they feel it shows respect .

He's publicly apologising for sexual assault even when he's done nothing wrong as he feels it shows respect?

Yeah, ok.

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

And making women feel uncomfortable isn't a bad thing?

Where has anyone been accused of being a pervert for giving a compliment?



He's publicly apologising for sexual assault even when he's done nothing wrong as he feels it shows respect?

Yeah, ok.

Well as the whole thing unravels more maybe more light will be shed on it . It just doesn't sound right .

You love twisting people's words don't you ? , of course it's not ok to make people feel uncomfortable .

His apology sounds vague is all i'm saying , he hasn't actually mentioned the things he's accused of . Anyone can apologise for upsetting & making people feel uncomfortable and it's left for us to interpret it whichever way .

Also looking at someone and telling them to twirl is not on the same level of physically trying to pull someones skirt up .

when 1 person decides to come forward then all of a sudden these other ones come out the wood work exactly the same time . the whole thing is weird.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

Well as the whole thing unravels more maybe more light will be shed on it . It just doesn't sound right .

You love twisting people's words don't you ? , of course it's not ok to make people feel uncomfortable .

His apology sounds vague is all i'm saying , he hasn't actually mentioned the things he's accused of . Anyone can apologise for upsetting & making people feel uncomfortable and it's left for us to interpret it whichever way .

Also looking at someone and telling them to twirl is not on the same level of physically trying to pull someones skirt up .

when 1 person decides to come forward then all of a sudden these other ones come out the wood work exactly the same time . the whole thing is weird.

Well, no, because wouldn't his first reaction be to deny any criminal wrongdoing?

Apologise if he's caused offence or made someone feel uncomfortable but also stress that he's not guilty of any harassment or assault. He isn't. That speaks volumes.

But your post highlights exactly why they're damned if they do and damned if they don't. They keep quiet, they're blamed for any future victims or for selfishly thinking of themselves, they come forward and they're automatically accused of jumping on bandwagons and gold digging. Either way, it's their fault.

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

So... he's innocent until proven guilty.... but you can say they're "falsely accused"?

Who's falsely accused all the time? Names? Proof?

You can't have it both ways.

In this specific case with Morgan Freeman, he's apologising. You don't apologise for things you didn't do.

Michael Jackson was FALSELY accused by several kids & their parents
Cliff Richard was WRONGLY accused
Michael Le Vell (Kevin Webster)

And recently there was a guy on tv (he wasn't a celebrity) but he was wrongly accused of rape just because he wouldn't date some psycho woman that was obsessed with him ,so she destroyed his life by reporting him to the police and it took a few years for the police to finally realise she was lying and they finally investigated and found evidence to prove his innocence.

Turns out she was harassing him in text messages i think .

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

Michael Jackson was FALSELY accused by several kids & their parents
Cliff Richard was WRONGLY accused
Michael Le Vell (Kevin Webster)

And recently there was a guy on tv (he wasn't a celebrity) but he was wrongly accused of rape just because he wouldn't date some psycho woman that was obsessed with him ,so she destroyed his life by reporting him to the police and it took a few years for the police to finally realise she was lying and they finally investigated and found evidence to prove his innocence.

Turns out she was harassing him in text messages i think .

So, now anytime someone comes forward they're automatically lying?

You've provided 4 examples over a 20 year period out of how many?

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Well, no, because wouldn't his first reaction be to deny any criminal wrongdoing?

Apologise if he's caused offence or made someone feel uncomfortable but also stress that he's not guilty of any harassment or assault. He isn't. That speaks volumes.

But your post highlights exactly why they're damned if they do and damned if they don't. They keep quiet, they're blamed for any future victims or for selfishly thinking of themselves, they come forward and they're automatically accused of jumping on bandwagons and gold digging. Either way, it's their fault.

By that logic it makes no difference if they deny it aka these celebrities or whoever get's accused as people will always say they're GUILTY .

Bill Cosby denied it but obviously people still think he's guilty and he's going to jail , as there's too many women that have come forward .

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

By that logic it makes no difference if they deny it aka these celebrities or whoever get's accused as people will always say they're GUILTY .

Bill Cosby denied it but obviously people still think he's guilty and he's going to jail , as there's too many women that have come forward .

Eh? Nobody's said anyone is guilty unless they've been convicted.
Morgan Freeman is apologising for what he's been accused of so it isn't looking good.

You keep bringing Bill Cosby up, do you know something the courts don't? His trial has started, give them a call.

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

So, now anytime someone comes forward they're automatically lying?

You've provided 4 examples over a 20 year period out of how many?

Listen Marsh

i'm not going to spend all night writing a list of the past 20 years of men being FALSELY accused , if you want more evidence then maybe google some more cases when you have time . Those were just a few at the top of my head of ones that stick in my head the most .

And lets not be silly , of course any serious accusation has to be investigated but just as long as ACTUAL JUSTICE happens and we find out the truth .

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

Listen Marsh

i'm not going to spend all night writing a list of the past 20 years of men being FALSELY accused , if you want more evidence then maybe google some more cases when you have time . Those were just a few at the top of my head of ones that stick in my head the most .

I wouldn't want you to because it's irrelevant.

I could also list dozens of convicted rapists and convicted assaults.

Listing people falsely accused in the past has **** all to do with Morgan Freeman. Also, you seem to confuse "not guilty" with "proven innocent" anyway. They're very different things.

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Eh? Nobody's said anyone is guilty unless they've been convicted.
Morgan Freeman is apologising for what he's been accused of so it isn't looking good.

You keep bringing Bill Cosby up, do you know something the courts don't? His trial has started, give them a call.

I'm pretty sure i mentioned him once but OKAY . You totally misunderstood what i was saying, you used the example of "they're damned if they do and damned if they don't"

So i merely said what about the other way around when the accused denies it but people still think they did it regardless ? .

Courts have the final say but people will always have their doubts even if someone is acquitted as mud sticks .

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

I'm pretty sure i mentioned him once but OKAY . You totally misunderstood what i was saying, you used the example of "they're damned if they do and damned if they don't"

You mentioned him twice.

And, yes, I did say that because in this thread victims have been painted in the wrong for both coming forward and for not.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by scarface95

I'm well aware that the Scummy Pervert is fully in the wrong thank you very much. I was just Pointing out that the Victims had/ Have the Power to Prevent such Horrible and Traumatizing Experiences to Occur to some other Unfortunate Innocent Lives and Rather than doing the right thing and reporting it to the Police and the authorities, They decide to keep quiet , Knowing full well the Psycho is still out there Hunting their next Victim.

If i was the Victim of an Assault, Knowing full well how horrible it is and not wanting a repeat, I would do everything in my power to make sure the perpetrator is Brought to Justice and Behind Bars and i would not rest until i have Accomplished it.

...the thing is with ‘power’ though...by definition a victim doesn’t feel or have a sense of any power...the harasser or the abuser etc have removed that power as it were...and with things like this in the Hollywood scene with the #metoo movement...it’s only the movement atm that is giving the power I would say...the courage to speak out now...it’s interesting that Alan Arkin asked him to stop with one incident because Alan would have been more of ‘equal power’ I would say...but a production assistant who had her skirt lifted..at that time would have felt fairly powerless to speak out when it involved someone who was of power within Hollywood...she would have felt quite helpless...whereas now #metoo has given and is giving power to victims to find their voices...and obviously there are also victims with these type of accusations for instance who are only finding their power and their courage now because of their own Hollywood standing and also because of the movement...but at the time the harasser or the abuser etc was the one with the ‘power’ which would have made victims feel unable and powerless to speak out ....I don’t think in situations like this, people ‘decide’ to keep quiet as it were...I think it’s more that they feel powerless because their voice has no power over someone like Morgan Freeman’s ...maybe things were voiced and known within the Hollywood industry but it’s taken things like #metoo for public voices to find their strength and power....