[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

As i've already said in this topic Christians are an easy target when it comes to political debates like this and different views .

The guy in the bakery still offered to bake them another type of cake , so if the couple are so persistent to go with this particular baker then why not just accept another type of cake but just use it as a wedding cake? just don't have the writing "happy birthday" on the cake . Infact birthday cakes can even say "congratulations" on it but that's besides the point .

Or like i said they could just take their business elsewhere but noo it's more fun to take the baker to court and shame him and kick up a petty fuss about it

They kicked up a fuss about having "happy birthday" written on it?

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

They kicked up a fuss about having "happy birthday" written on it?

Did you read what i just said ? , birthday cakes don't have to say "happy birthday" . What about a plain cake that somebody makes and passes as a birthday cake for a family member or dear friend . You can decorate a cake whichever way you want .

I 'm guessing the difference is a birthday cake is usually butter cream or chocolate, whereas traditionally wedding cakes are made of fruit and maybe even a bit of alcohol . But these days people have all kinds of wedding cakes & birthday cakes.

So the point i'm making is if they were so persistent to go with this baker even though they were offended then why not just accept the birthday cake option minus the birthday message on the cake . But if you're that upset and offended why not take business elsewhere that's what i don't understand .

And i bet if it was a jewish or muslim bakery they would just accept their beliefs and be on their way somewhere else .

I think somebody even mentioned when religious people don't serve ham and pork , you going to demand they make you a pork sandwich or just go somewhere else like a normal person ?.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

Did you read what i just said ? , birthday cakes don't have to say "happy birthday" . What about a plain cake that somebody makes and passes as a birthday cake for a family member or dear friend . You can decorate a cake whichever way you want .

I 'm guessing the difference is a birthday cake is usually butter cream or chocolate, whereas traditionally wedding cakes are made of fruit and maybe even a bit of alcohol . But these days people have all kinds of wedding cakes & birthday cakes.

So the point i'm making is if they were so persistent to go with this baker even though they were offended then why not just accept the birthday cake option minus the birthday message on the cake . But if you're that upset and offended why not take business elsewhere that's what i don't understand .

And i bet if it was a jewish or muslim bakery they would just accept their beliefs and be on their way somewhere else .

I think somebody even mentioned when religious people don't serve ham and pork , you going to demand they make you a pork sandwich or just go somewhere else like a normal person ?.

If they could decorate/make a cake of their own they wouldn't have gone to a bakery? People go to these places to pay for people's expertise.

Yeah, people who don't serve ham or pork is not a valid comparison.
You wouldn't go to them for meats if they did not sell them, just as you wouldn't go to an ice cream parlour for DIY supplies. That's neither here nor there. This man refused the service that they DO OFFER on the basis of the sexuality of the couple. That is discrimination no matter how many invalid comparisons you make.

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

If they could decorate/make a cake of their own they wouldn't have gone to a bakery? People go to these places to pay for people's expertise.

Yeah, people who don't serve ham or pork is not a valid comparison.
You wouldn't go to them for meats if they did not sell them, just as you wouldn't go to an ice cream parlour for DIY supplies. That's neither here nor there. This man refused the service that they DO OFFER on the basis of the sexuality of the couple. That is discrimination no matter how many invalid comparisons you make.

One again you're not listening to what i said , i never said the gay couple should "make their own cake and decorate it " . I'm merely saying a birthday cake doesn't have to have "Happy birthday" written on it (wow this is hard work) You can have a birthday cake that says congratulations or just a plain cake or one with just balloons decorated on .

It's usually the mixture that defines a birthday cake and the fact that it's 1 cake as usually a wedding cake consists of tiers and several cakes .But in this modern world all kinds of cakes have different mixtures and ingredients.

Like i said the couple could of gone elsewhere or accepted an alternative cake option .

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

One again you're not listening to what i said , i never said the gay couple should "make their own cake and decorate it " . I'm merely saying a birthday cake doesn't have to have "Happy birthday" written on it (wow this is hard work) You can have a birthday cake that says congratulations or just a plain cake or one with just balloons decorated on .

It's usually the mixture that defines a birthday cake and the fact that it's 1 cake as usually a wedding cake consists of tiers and several cakes .But in this modern world all kinds of cakes have different mixtures and ingredients.

Like i said the couple could of gone elsewhere or accepted an alternative cake option .

I never said that's what you said, THAT'S WHAT I SAID, hence it appearing in MY post.

People go to bakeries for special occasion cakes because they might want something a bit more than a plain cake, especially for a wedding. Because they want personalised detail on that makes it unique. That tends to be the whole point, otherwise you could buy generic birthday/wedding/balloon whatever cakes from a supermarket.

Yes, they could go anywhere else and try alternative options. BUT the issue isn't solely about them getting the cake they want/need (I'm sure, in the end, they got the cake they wanted elsewhere?), but about being discriminated against by a business for their sexuality, which in 2018 is not acceptable.

[Toy Soldier]

"We would like a cake please"
"Is it a wedding cake u look like gays "
"No, it is a birthday cake"
"Oh... that's OK then. What would you like."
"We would like it to have three tiers please."
"Three tiers... OK. What about icing?"
"Just white icing please all over."
"Just... just white icing you say... ... OK what about writing?"
"No writing on our birthday cake thanks."
"Decorations?"
"We would like two small figurines of men in tuxedos on the top of the cake please."
"EY! Wait a damn minute, what is this?? I said no wedding cakes!"
"No no no! It's a birthday cake. For twins. Can you have them holding hands please?"

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

I never said that's what you said, THAT'S WHAT I SAID, hence it appearing in MY post.

People go to bakeries for special occasion cakes because they might want something a bit more than a plain cake, especially for a wedding. Because they want personalised detail on that makes it unique. That tends to be the whole point, otherwise you could buy generic birthday/wedding/balloon whatever cakes from a supermarket.

Yes, they could go anywhere else and try alternative options. BUT the issue isn't solely about them getting the cake they want/need (I'm sure, in the end, they got the cake they wanted elsewhere?), but about being discriminated against by a business for their sexuality, which in 2018 is not acceptable.

I Doubt they'd feel the same way though if it was another religious bakery refusing to make a wedding cake (ie muslim or jewish) . I've seen it time after time same overreaction for particular religion and the same people who are upset turn a blind eye to other relgiions with either the same views or even stricter views smh .

I've even been around people that have contradicted themselves when it comes to accepting religious beliefs , i've heard people berate the bible and slag off christian beliefs and in the same breath they respect islam beleivers hmm... . surely all religions should be respected ?

We're not all going to have the same views but i can't stand the hypocrisy .

I don't know the ins and outs of what a birthday cake would entail that this baker would make ? , but i don't like the idea of someone being pushed into a corner forced into something he doesn't want to do .

And do we even know if the supreme judge is religious aswell or not? he could even be atheist for all we know ? but that's besides the point.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

"We would like a cake please"
"Is it a wedding cake u look like gays "
"No, it is a birthday cake"
"Oh... that's OK then. What would you like."
"We would like it to have three tiers please."
"Three tiers... OK. What about icing?"
"Just white icing please all over."
"Just... just white icing you say... ... OK what about writing?"
"No writing on our birthday cake thanks."
"Decorations?"
"We would like two small figurines of men in tuxedos on the top of the cake please."
"EY! Wait a damn minute, what is this?? I said no wedding cakes!"
"No no no! It's a birthday cake. For twins. Can you have them holding hands please?"

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

[/B]


I Doubt they'd feel the same way though if it was another religious bakery refusing to make a wedding cake (ie muslim or jewish) . I've seen it time after time same overreaction for particular religion and the same people who are upset turn a blind eye to other relgiions with either the same views or even stricter views smh .

I've even been around people that have contradicted themselves when it comes to accepting religious beliefs , i've heard people berate the bible and slag off christian beliefs and in the same breath they respect islam beleivers hmm... . surely all religions should be respected ?

We're not all going to have the same views but i can't stand the hypocrisy .

I don't know the ins and outs of what a birthday cake would entail that this baker would make ? , but i don't like the idea of someone being pushed into a corner forced into something he doesn't want to do .

And do we even know if the supreme judge is religious aswell or not? he could even be atheist for all we know ? but that's besides the point.

So these men don't mind homophobic discrimination from anyone but Christians?

Ok.

"Pushed into a corner and forced to do something they don't wanna do". Let's go back to what we're talking about "A baker being asked by a paying customer for a cake". Hardly being dragged to Syria to fight in a war.

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

So these men don't mind homophobic discrimination from anyone but Christians?

Ok.

I didn't say that but they wouldn't take them to court over it i bet

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

I didn't say that but they wouldn't take them to court over it i bet

Well, if you're just going to make things up and argue about things that haven't actually happened because of your own conspiracy theories we'll just stop there.

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

"We would like a cake please"
"Is it a wedding cake u look like gays "
"No, it is a birthday cake"
"Oh... that's OK then. What would you like."
"We would like it to have three tiers please."
"Three tiers... OK. What about icing?"
"Just white icing please all over."
"Just... just white icing you say... ... OK what about writing?"
"No writing on our birthday cake thanks."
"Decorations?"
"We would like two small figurines of men in tuxedos on the top of the cake please."
"EY! Wait a damn minute, what is this?? I said no wedding cakes!"
"No no no! It's a birthday cake. For twins. Can you have them holding hands please?"

Very funny . A birthday cake wouldn't have tiers or figurines lol .

I was just saying some weddings have extra stand alone cakes with other messages and decorations ie baloons or congratulations writted on .
A birthday cake doesn't have to be a traditional HAPPY BIRTHDAY one .

[Marsh.]

Again, the issue is not the cake, it's the discrimination.

[Maru]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

"We would like a cake please"
"Is it a wedding cake u look like gays "
"No, it is a birthday cake"
"Oh... that's OK then. What would you like."
"We would like it to have three tiers please."
"Three tiers... OK. What about icing?"
"Just white icing please all over."
"Just... just white icing you say... ... OK what about writing?"
"No writing on our birthday cake thanks."
"Decorations?"
"We would like two small figurines of men in tuxedos on the top of the cake please."
"EY! Wait a damn minute, what is this?? I said no wedding cakes!"
"No no no! It's a birthday cake. For twins. Can you have them holding hands please?"

Also TS...

Spoiler:

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Again, the issue is not the cake, it's the discrimination.

Actually the issue is the cake aswell as they insist on a special cake and won't accept other alternatives.

Discrimination happens to all kinds of people , but the baker still gave them another option of cake . It's not like he completely shunned them and refused to serve them .

Like other people have said it's not like it's a huge chain or big supermarket shop. It's a small bakery isn't it? .

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

Actually the issue is the cake aswell as they insist on a special cake and won't accept other alternatives.

Discrimination happens to all kinds of people , but the baker still gave them another option of cake . It's not like he completely shunned them and refused to serve them .

Like other people have said it's not like it's a huge chain or big supermarket shop. It's a small bakery isn't it? .

It's a small bakery so they have a right to discrimination?

Nah, don't work like that.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Maru

Also TS...

Spoiler:

...

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

It's a small bakery so they have a right to discrimination?

Nah, don't work like that.

What if there was a bakery that only offered birthday cakes would that be discrimination to other events ? . Or what if there was a bakery that didn't do bar mitzvah celebration cakes? is that offensive to jewish people? .

It's not as simple as to just say "oh it's discrimination" , is that the answer to everything when you don't get what you want? go to court ? i don't agree with that .

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

What if there was a bakery that only offered birthday cakes would that be discrimination to other events ? . Or what if there was a bakery that didn't do bar mitzvah celebration cakes? is that offensive to jewish people? .

It's not as simple as to just say "oh it's discrimination" , is that the answer to everything when you don't get what you want? go to court ? i don't agree with that .

That's not what happened? So, again, you're debating something no one else is.

The bakery doesn't "only offer birthday cakes" he declined to make a cake for a wedding because they are gay. That's what actually happened. Discrimination, no matter what silly diversionary arguments you make.

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

That's not what happened? So, again, you're debating something no one else is.

You're not addressing what i just said . If you don't get what you want or if somebody has offended you ? is the answer to always go to court? no matter how petty it is ?

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

You're not addressing what i just said . If you don't get what you want or if somebody has offended you ? is the answer to always go to court? no matter how petty it is ?

No. Because, again, that's not what happened here and is not what's being discussed.

They didn't rock up to an ice cream shop and ask for a pork sandwich.
They didn't rock up to a "Birthday Cake Bakery" and ask for a wedding cake.
They turned up at a bakery that bakes cakes for weddings and other occasions and were declined what they asked for on the basis that they are a same sex couple. (ie. discrimination).

That's what happened.

So, go off on a tangent with stories and examples that mock them, but the facts don't change.

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

No. Because, again, that's not what happened here and is not what's being discussed.

They didn't rock up to an ice cream shop and ask for a pork sandwich.
They didn't rock up to a "Birthday Cake Bakery" and ask for a wedding cake.
They turned up at a bakery that bakes cakes for weddings and other occasions and were declined what they asked for on the basis that they are a same sex couple. (ie. discrimination).

That's what happened.

So, go off on a tangent with stories and examples that mock them, but the facts don't change.

I never mocked anyone , i'm just giving my opinion .

There was a story about a bakery in indonesia who refused to write "merry Christmas" on a cake for a customer due to religious beliefs is that discrimination? .

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

I never mocked anyone , i'm just giving my opinion .

There was a story about a bakery in indonesia who refused to write "merry Christmas" on a cake for a customer due to religious beliefs is that discrimination? .

You are.

"What if there was a bakery that only offered birthday cakes would that be discrimination to other events ? . Or what if there was a bakery that didn't do bar mitzvah celebration cakes? is that offensive to jewish people?"

This is not a comparison but a complete exaggeration and mocking of the facts.
This didn't happen.

As for the Indonesian bakery, I don't know, I haven't heard/read that story.

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

You are.

"What if there was a bakery that only offered birthday cakes would that be discrimination to other events ? . Or what if there was a bakery that didn't do bar mitzvah celebration cakes? is that offensive to jewish people?"

This is not a comparison but a complete exaggeration and mocking of the facts.
This didn't happen.

As for the Indonesian bakery, I don't know, I haven't heard/read that story.

https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/se...-religious-row

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/se...-religious-row

That's discrimination too.

Refusing to serve someone on the basis of their colour, race, sexuality, gender, creed etc is discrimination.

So, mocking with "You wouldn't go into a book shop and ask for a wedding cake" type facetiousness is pointless.

If they were refusing actual offensive/hateful/criminal material then that would be one thing. They're not. They're applying religious discrimination, just as the US bakery were discriminatory on the basis of sexuality.

It would be like a bakery over here turning away a Jewish family for a bar mitzvah cake on the grounds they are Christian. It's completely ridiculous.