[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Oh...... Like yours you mean?

'I wonder who should I believe has more credibility when it comes to an opinion on this - this clearly educated, intelligent and informed man who has given a very clear description of the whys and where fore’s or Withano. A very hard decision indeed! '

Last edited by Brillopad; Today at 02:16 PM.

Well as I have seen Withano talk about university and his studies I know he isn’t uneducated. I was talking in reference to his politics and his tendency to sarcasm and general attitude. So your point is what exactly!

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Well as I have seen Withano talk about university and his studies I know he isn’t uneducated. I was talking in reference to his politics and his tendency to sarcasm and general attitude. So your point is what exactly!

She says with a shouty exclamation and a patronising shrug...

[Cherie]

Any chance we could get back to the topic and you two take it to pm?

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Chewcobo

Indeed, Trump or Obama, it's still wrong and it needs to stop

.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Any chance we could get back to the topic and you two take it to pm?

I've made my point on the topic btw... where's yours?

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Chewcobo

Indeed, Trump or Obama, it's still wrong and it needs to stop

.

[parmnion]

Im sure i mentioned this at the time..

[Toy Soldier]

So we justify the fact that bad sh*t is happening on the US border right now, by pointing out that bad sh*t has also happened in the past?

What possible relevance?

"You killed him! You killed my brother!!"

"Err calm down mate, I think you'll find that others have killed people before "

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

So we justify the fact that bad sh*t is happening on the US border right now, by pointing out that bad sh*t has also happened in the past?

What possible relevance?

"You killed him! You killed my brother!!"

"Err calm down mate, I think you'll find that others have killed people before "

I don't think that is the point that is being made at all, just that the coverage was non existent and you have to wonder why?

[smudgie]

No human being should be treat like this, never mind innocent kids.

[Tom4784]

At the end of the day, Obama's mistakes do not overwrite Trump's, it does not lessen them. It does not change the fact that thousands of children had been separated from their parents for any reason other than cruelty and political leverage.

No amount of distractions is going to detract from that. No amount of left vs right bitching is going to undercut it. The treatment of those children under Trump's administration was unforgivable, the conditions for the few children under Obama's administration was awful too but it's only being brought up now to serve as a smokescreen to offset justified criticism towards Trump and his administration.

[bitontheslide]

I would have thought the difference was glaringly obvious. The past is the past, it can't be changed. Things can be done about what his happening NOW

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Cherie

I don't think that is the point that is being made at all, just that the coverage was non existent and you have to wonder why?

Precisely.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

I would have thought the difference was glaringly obvious. The past is the past, it can't be changed. Things can be done about what his happening NOW

would you say that about war crimes the past can be as important as the present especially when putting something into context.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Cherie

I don't think that is the point that is being made at all, just that the coverage was non existent and you have to wonder why?

I dont think thats the point... the point was somebody, apparently, mistook the image for being brand new, and thats worth discussing apparently.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Withano

I dont think thats the point... the point was somebody, apparently, mistook the image for being brand new, and thats worth discussing apparently.

it's my interpretation of the point, you are of course entitled to yours.

[jaxie]

I think the truth is somewhere between all the stories and it's likely children have been taken into care as a matter of course in many illegal immigration cases under different administration's and probably in countries apart from the US.

When adults are arrested they don't usually take their kids to jail with them and if there isn't another adult there to take care of them they probably go into the care of the social services in this country too. Children's homes in the UK aren't fairytale castles with free all you can eat cake and Pepsi either.

It's appalling to see children in those conditions. Are others kept like that and worse, you bet. This all kind of feels like throwing stones at glass houses.

Then we should have a look at all the small children on the streets of India who don't have anyone, where there is a lack of social care at all and it's left to charities to try to pick up the pieces on threadbare budgets. Oh I forgot, we can look away because we can't blame Trump for that one.

[bitontheslide]

Originally Posted by Cherie

would you say that about war crimes the past can be as important as the present especially when putting something into context.

i don't mean people shouldn't be held accountable if crimes were committed, but when we can actively stop something happening now, we should and I think these fake photos and their attention is purely designed to take the pressure of current events.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by jaxie

I think the truth is somewhere between all the stories and it's likely children have been taken into care as a matter of course in many illegal immigration cases under different administration's and probably in countries apart from the US.

When adults are arrested they don't usually take their kids to jail with them and if there isn't another adult there to take care of them they probably go into the care of the social services in this country too. Children's homes in the UK aren't fairytale castles with free all you can eat cake and Pepsi either.

It's appalling to see children in those conditions. Are others kept like that and worse, you bet. This all kind of feels like throwing stones at glass houses.

Then we should have a look at all the small children on the streets of India who don't have anyone, where there is a lack of social care at all and it's left to charities to try to pick up the pieces on threadbare budgets. Oh I forgot, we can look away because we can't blame Trump for that one.

Excellent post Jaxie!

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by jaxie

I think the truth is somewhere between all the stories and it's likely children have been taken into care as a matter of course in many illegal immigration cases under different administration's and probably in countries apart from the US.

When adults are arrested they don't usually take their kids to jail with them and if there isn't another adult there to take care of them they probably go into the care of the social services in this country too. Children's homes in the UK aren't fairytale castles with free all you can eat cake and Pepsi either.

It's appalling to see children in those conditions. Are others kept like that and worse, you bet. This all kind of feels like throwing stones at glass houses.

Then we should have a look at all the small children on the streets of India who don't have anyone, where there is a lack of social care at all and it's left to charities to try to pick up the pieces on threadbare budgets. Oh I forgot, we can look away because we can't blame Trump for that one.

[Kizzy]

That's some deflection... Let's not talk about the US or the UK because little ragged Indian kids.... :/

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

That's some deflection... Let's not talk about the US or the UK because little ragged Indian kids.... :/

Its called perspective and a few left wing liberals would be well set to embrace it

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Cherie

it's my interpretation of the point, you are of course entitled to yours.

Well you kinda ignored literally everything in the OP and ran on a hunch

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Its called perspective and a few left wing liberals would be well set to embrace it

ok

[Maru]

Originally Posted by jaxie

I think the truth is somewhere between all the stories and it's likely children have been taken into care as a matter of course in many illegal immigration cases under different administration's and probably in countries apart from the US.

When adults are arrested they don't usually take their kids to jail with them and if there isn't another adult there to take care of them they probably go into the care of the social services in this country too. Children's homes in the UK aren't fairytale castles with free all you can eat cake and Pepsi either.

It's appalling to see children in those conditions. Are others kept like that and worse, you bet. This all kind of feels like throwing stones at glass houses.

Then we should have a look at all the small children on the streets of India who don't have anyone, where there is a lack of social care at all and it's left to charities to try to pick up the pieces on threadbare budgets. Oh I forgot, we can look away because we can't blame Trump for that one.

Right. The politicians who are blaming Trump for this policy in some cases were aware of what was going on in detentions. So the issue really belongs to our legislators imo. The only reason it became an issue now is because Trump began enforcing our immigration laws as it is on the books. (i.e., criminal prosecution). So while he can set priorities, he's not responsible for how the laws as they are written. It is on Congress to rewrite the laws. It's not even the President's priority, so I wouldn't even blame Obama either.

Schumer rejects GOP proposal to address border crisis
http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/3...-border-crisis

Senate Democratic Leader Charles Schumer (N.Y.) on Tuesday dismissed a legislative proposal backed by Republican leaders to keep immigrant families together at the border, arguing that President Trump could fix the problem more easily with a flick of his pen.

“There are so many obstacles to legislation and when the president can do it with his own pen, it makes no sense,” Schumer told reporters. “Legislation is not the way to go here when it’s so easy for the president to sign it.”

Asked if that meant Democrats would not support a bill backed by Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) to keep immigrant families together while seeking asylum on the U.S. border, Schumer said they want to keep the focus on Trump.

“Again, the president can change it with his pen,” he said, warning that Republicans would likely try to add poison-pill provisions to any immigration bill that came to the floor.

“Unacceptable additions have bogged down every piece of legislation we’ve done,” he said.

Schumer’s opposition to a legislative fix means there likely won’t be a quick end to the emotional images of immigrant children being separated from their families unless Trump backs down and reverses his “zero tolerance” policy.

Democrats want to keep the pressure on Trump instead of having Congress assume responsibility for the growing crisis.

Schumer’s position immediately raised speculation over how long Democrats would stick to their position if Trump refuses to change his mind.

“Let’s hope we never get to that. Let’s hope the president does the right thing and solves the problem, which he can do. That’s the simple, easiest and most likely way this will happen,” Schumer said.

Trump claims the burden is on Congress to keep immigrant children from being separated from their parents after 20 days if they are detained by law enforcement.

Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen on Monday told reporters “Congress alone can fix it.”

McConnell on Tuesday sided with the administration and called for legislation.

“I support, and all of the senators of the Republican conference support, a plan that keeps families together,” McConnell told reporters.

“We need to fix the problem and it requires a legislative solution,” he added.

The GOP leadership supports a bill that would require that immigrant families be kept together in a humane setting while waiting for an immigration judge. Furthermore, it would expedite their hearings to minimize their time in detention.

Again, it's no wonder Congress has such an abysmal approval rating... I don't know why we bother electing anyone to it sometimes. Most of the time they just sit around with their fingers up their butt except to go on CNN/Fox News and point fingers.... couldn't be arsed to do a single thing for us to actually alleviate all the issues that are dividing up the country politically. If we had actual compromise again and legislature was actually moving through at a pace that addressed most people's concerns (especially Immigration and the economy...), then there would be no need for at least half the cringe in our politics.

Both parties have been kicking the Immigration ball back and forth even though it's been clear for decades now that Americans really want the system to be reformed and for illegal immigration to at least addressed. It's no accident that this was the straw that broke the camel's back.

Edit: Oh and it really pays to harass companies through their Twitter handles... so much easier to get ahold of Retentions now. It used to be you had to find the corporate "executive" customer service phone # hidden somewhere on a bulletin board... now most companies find these "problem accounts" on social media... just complain about the company in a tweet and they'll tweet you in a few minutes asking if they can help.