[Livia]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

No Livia
That's not what I said ,but they're getting less bad publicity it's do obvious what's happening.

I still don't believe Corbyn is anti-Semitic , he's probably associated or been linked with people who are but doesn't mean he is himself .

I think laying wreaths on the graves of terrorists colours my judgement about him. The IRA, the PLO, Hamas... there are plenty of terrorist causes he and his colleagues support. And he can't make the distinction between being Israeli and being Jewish.

Corbyn could have put an end to the antisemitism allegations a long, long time ago. But he didn't. Instead he's kept his silence and that can only lead me to believe he is antisemitic. And meanwhile his supporters respond with stuff like... It's all a smear campaign... and yeah, but what about the Tories!

[Livia]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

Are you kidding?? , Nothing Blair did was ever swept under the carpet . Even now he still gets blamed for the war on Iraq

And are YOU kidding by claiming the Tories selling arms to Saudi has been swept under the carpet? How come we're talking about it??

Who else should be blamed for the war on Iraq?

All the political parties get trolled by the press. Singling out the Labour party as being particularly affected is more ridiculous than the antisemitism denials.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Livia

And are YOU kidding by claiming the Tories selling arms to Saudi has been swept under the carpet? How come we're talking about it??

Who else should be blamed for the war on Iraq?

All the political parties get trolled by the press. Singling out the Labour party as being particularly affected is more ridiculous than the antisemitism denials.

The mainstream UK tabloid press is heavily skewed towards the Conservatives. We're not going to start denying that now too, surely?

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Livia

And are YOU kidding by claiming the Tories selling arms to Saudi has been swept under the carpet? How come we're talking about it??

Who else should be blamed for the war on Iraq?

All the political parties get trolled by the press. Singling out the Labour party as being particularly affected is more ridiculous than the antisemitism denials.

It's being downplayed , labour are getting a much negative backlash that's my point.

The war on Iraq was both Blair & Bush let's open our eyes , I never said Blair didn't have a part in it but it wasn't just him .

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

The war on Iraq was both Blair & Bush let's open our eyes , I never said Blair didn't have a part in it but it wasn't just him .

To be fair in my opinion there were far bigger global tides driving the Iraq war than individuals like Bush or Blair (it would have happened regardless of who was POTUS or PM) but I think that's a whooole other thread .

[Livia]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

It's being downplayed , labour are getting a much negative backlash that's my point.

The war on Iraq was both Blair & Bush let's open our eyes , I never said Blair didn't have a part in it but it wasn't just him .

Well I can tell you that the feeling amongst Jews is very different.

I mean, he's denied he laid a wreath on the graves of the terrorist who killed Israelis at the Munich Olympics. He ONLY laid a wreath on terrorists who were training at a PLO camp in Tunis. Oh well, that's fine then!

There's also the fact that Labour want to change the definition of antisemitism. Everyone else in the world uses the definition in its entirety... but Labour want to change it.

I have not personally seen a news story in this country affect the Jewish community so deeply.... ever.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

The mainstream UK tabloid press is heavily skewed towards the Conservatives. We're not going to start denying that now too, surely?

I don't read the tabloid press. And no one I know takes them seriously.

Antisemitism is a problem for Labour. With or without the tabloids.

And what do you mean, am I going to deny that "too".

Maybe I'm a little too close to this argument.

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

To be fair in my opinion there were far bigger global tides driving the Iraq war than individuals like Bush or Blair (it would have happened regardless of who was POTUS or PM) but I think that's a whooole other thread .

But what I'm saying is nobody ever let's Blair forget that huge mistake he made , but Bush had a part in it as well .

Yeah maybe regardless we would of still gone to war with Iraq, but we'll never know now.

I remember Lib dem's later on saying "oh we'd of never gone to war " , I remember thinking sure it's easier to say that once the damages have been done . Back then lib dem's converted a few people towards them with their no war peace campaign. Now look at what's happened to them .

[Livia]

Tony Blair took THIS country to war. Bush didn't... Tony Blair was the leader of this country at the time. And it was the wrong decision made on faulty information.

I don't see why he should ever be allowed to forget.

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Livia

Tony Blair took THIS country to war. Bush didn't... Tony Blair was the leader of this country at the time. And it was the wrong decision made on faulty information.

I don't see why he should ever be allowed to forget.

But DIDN'T you claim people swept Blair's actions under the carpet ?? .
I was pointing out that's NOT the case at all .

I never agreed with his decision , obviously we should NEVER of gone to war .

[kirklancaster]

Why is this thread being deflected onto Blair/May/The Size Of Donald Duck's Beak?

The subject here is ALL the decades of INCONTROVERTIBLE evidence that Corbyn is anti-Semitic and PRO-TERRORIST.

And as BOTS has pointed out the two are interrelated.

Mitigate all you want, deny all you want, deflect all you want, but the TRUTH is out there for all but the self-blind to see.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Why is this thread being deflected onto Blair/May/The Size Of Donald Duck's Beak?

The subject here is ALL the decades of INCONTROVERTIBLE evidence that Corbyn is anti-Semitic and PRO-TERRORIST.

And as BOTS has pointed out the two are interrelated.

Mitigate all you want, deny all you want, deflect all you want, but the TRUTH is out there for all but the self-blind to see.

Because it's a debate forum and - whilst they did unthinkably add "celeb news" into the mix - as far as I'm aware, the forum is still called "Serious debates and News (...and Celebrity stuff)", not "Serious Announcements, Proclamations and Soapbox Speeches".

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Because it's a debate forum and - whilst they did unthinkably add "celeb news" into the mix - as far as I'm aware, the forum is still called "Serious debates and News (...and Celebrity stuff)", not "Serious Announcements, Proclamations and Soapbox Speeches".

You KNOW all about 'soapbox speeches' T.S. being the greatest exponent, but your post still does not answer why the thread topic is being diverted away from Corbyn.

[Greg!]

[arista]

Yes he did a New TV news Interview saying it was about
the Attack on Tunisia

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

You KNOW all about 'soapbox speeches' T.S. being the greatest exponent, but your post still does not answer why the thread topic is being diverted away from Corbyn.

I have strong opinions but I've never discouraged anyone from sharing their own opinion, nor tried to discount opinions on the basis that it "isn't exactly on the thread title topic", as debates evolve as they progress. Discussing other current politicians as a compare / contrast is perfectly valid within a discussion about Corbyn (a current politician).

The idea that we MUST only mention Corbyn and we MUST only talk about the "newspaper facts" that he is antisemitic / a fan of terrorist groups, and that any other discussion is irrelevant, is an agenda-driven attempt to create a one-sided "announcement or proclamation", or soap-box speech.

"Hear ye hear ye! Corbyn hates Jews and loves Terrorism! What's that? Yes, you in the back, what did you say? Wait no, IRRELEVANT. Hear yeee hear ye."

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Why is this thread being deflected onto Blair/May/The Size Of Donald Duck's Beak?

The subject here is ALL the decades of INCONTROVERTIBLE evidence that Corbyn is anti-Semitic and PRO-TERRORIST.

And as BOTS has pointed out the two are interrelated.

Mitigate all you want, deny all you want, deflect all you want, but the TRUTH is out there for all but the self-blind to see.

Nothing is being deflected , it's a political thread therefore politics is talked about.

Corbyn is still the main topic

[Nicky91]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

Nothing is being deflected , it's a political thread therefore politics is talked about.

Corbyn is still the main topic

true it's still very much on topic about Corbyn, i'd wish he wouldn't be a trending topic anymore tbh, i'm also the same tired about all the trump news, who is the only trending subject to talk about in america ugh


like there isn't anything other in the news than a corbyn or trump

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Nicky91

true it's still very much on topic about Corbyn, i'd wish he wouldn't be a trending topic anymore tbh, i'm also the same tired about all the trump news, who is the only trending subject to talk about in america ugh


like there isn't anything other in the news than a corbyn or trump

That's the nature of propaganda Nicky... mass media over-exposure is all part of it.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Greg!

While they're not buried in that cemetery, there is a plaque memorialising the Black September terrorists from 1972, which is where he was laying the wreath.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Greg!

That's it? That's your contribution?

[Livia]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Why is this thread being deflected onto Blair/May/The Size Of Donald Duck's Beak?

The subject here is ALL the decades of INCONTROVERTIBLE evidence that Corbyn is anti-Semitic and PRO-TERRORIST.

And as BOTS has pointed out the two are interrelated.

Mitigate all you want, deny all you want, deflect all you want, but the TRUTH is out there for all but the self-blind to see.

Because all the gentile Corbyn supporters say that he's not antisemitic. Just like we knew they would. Even Corbyn himself has admitted he was there... but no, he was just there as an innocent bystander. Allegedly.

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I have strong opinions but I've never discouraged anyone from sharing their own opinion, nor tried to discount opinions on the basis that it "isn't exactly on the thread title topic", as debates evolve as they progress. Discussing other current politicians as a compare / contrast is perfectly valid within a discussion about Corbyn (a current politician).

The idea that we MUST only mention Corbyn and we MUST only talk about the "newspaper facts" that he is antisemitic / a fan of terrorist groups, and that any other discussion is irrelevant, is an agenda-driven attempt to create a one-sided "announcement or proclamation", or soap-box speech.

"Hear ye hear ye! Corbyn hates Jews and loves Terrorism! What's that? Yes, you in the back, what did you say? Wait no, IRRELEVANT. Hear yeee hear ye."

Thank you, TS, for standing up for what SD&N should be. A debating forum.

[bitontheslide]

I always have a problem when deflection tactics are used. Does someone elses deeds that is not the topic of the thread somehow reduce the actions of the person in the topic?

I mean really, what has selling arms to Saudi Arabia got to do with it? Which, just for the record is not breaking any embargo's. The UK has a defense industry employing thousands upon thousands of people. Would the preference be for these people to lose their jobs? I might also add that labour has been just as keen to supply the very same countries with arms.

The subject of the thread is another example of a potential future prime minister of this country's link and support for terrorists.

[Maru]

I think we can simply point out (as bits just eloquently did), hey I think that is deflecting here, the reasons why and then just go back to the original issue, and let that be part of the debate...

Though one of my biggest pet peeves during conversation, real life especially, is when it's with folk who almost always want to bring up their annoyances on how they wish the discussion would proceed rather than simply having one. It happens often with certain people, and I almost always end up rage-quitting internally every time... it's usually indicative of defensiveness for me, though there are some people who like too much to referee discussions. I tend to think they suck at conversation for that reason.

Anyway I think off-topic rule should apply here to an extent. Though I should mention quite a few of us are very bad at this at the moment tbqf*f (like right now) ...