[Alf]

Originally Posted by Withano

I agree, but if the world turned vegan tomorrow, the planet will die even sooner. Probably within the next ten years... all the factories we’d have to build to make the vegan food just is less sustainable for the planet.

A mass cull of humans is the only answer. I nominate brexiteers to be first for the cut :hee:

The answers always genocide with you lefties.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Alf

The answers always genocide with you lefties.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Alf

Do you have any ideas which 5% you don't want to face genocide, or does everyone just get a ticket in a raffle?

I think there should be a TiBB committee to decide. I'd happy to chair it.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Alf

Do you have any ideas which 5% you don't want to face genocide, or does everyone just get a ticket in a raffle?

Well for one, it's irrelevant "which 5%". For two, it isn't genocide if it isn't race or culture specific (it has to be targetted to be genocide, by definition). For three, you don't necessarily have to kill anyone to reduce population, you just have to stop reproducing.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

humans are by far the most dangerous animal on earth Alf,have you seen what they have done to it? even when we are told something is in danger and destroying the planet,what do we do ? not a lot,we are a greedy,selfish species imo,but to want veganism as a religion is silly,and I say that as a veggie myself,,we have enough problems with the religions we have got.

To be fair, ALL species are greedy and selfish, that's not really something different about us or what's causing us to ruin the world. In fact, humans on the whole are far less greedy and selfish than most species, as we're the only ones with advanced empathy.

The problem with humans is that we're intelligent and skilled and therefore far too good at being greedy and selfish... and too good at adapting, surviving and reproducing. That's what makes us really dangerous.

[Livia]

Humans have a capacity for cruelty not seen in the animal kingdom. There are only a handful of species that will kill you and not eat you. Humans torture and kill animals every day, in every country of the world... not for food, for fun.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Livia

Humans have a capacity for cruelty not seen in the animal kingdom. There are only a handful of species that will kill you and not eat you. Humans torture and kill animals every day, in every country of the world... not for food, for fun.

For "sport" which is an unfortunate by-product of intelligence and boredom. Sports (including blood sports) originated as practice, for hunting and for warfare, just like for other animals e.g. all species of cats engage in blood sports (killing for thrills and not eating the prey) but it's not actually for fun. They keep hunting and killing even when they don't actually want or need to eat, so that they'll maintain the skills needed to hunt and kill effectively when they DO need them. I don't think my cat has EVER eaten a mouse, but her campaign against the local mice is sustained and brutal .

I'm not saying that I agree with hunting for sport - I don't, and I think humans at this point are advanced enough that we should know better (and most people do) but I think the urge to do it, on an instinctual level, is understandable and not necessarily borne of cruelty. Obviously there are some people who are just genuinely and deliberately cruel, but again, I would suggest that the reason most animals aren't "cruel" in the same way is that cruelty involves a more advanced set of emotions and motivations that most animal species just don't have... and if they evolved to the same level of intelligence as humans, it's inevitable that some of them WOULD be cruel, too.

[Livia]

We've infested this planet, filled the ocean up with plastic in just 50-odd years... we never learn from our mistakes and if Nature doesn't find a way to wipe at least some of us out, our future is doomed. People won't slow reproduction, they'll say "It's my right to have a child"... and the poor, uneducated people will still reproduce while the richer, more educated people won't. It's a nightmarish scenario and I have no idea if we'll ever be able to do enough to claw back some kind of future.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Livia

We've infested this planet, filled the ocean up with plastic in just 50-odd years... we never learn from our mistakes and if Nature doesn't find a way to wipe at least some of us out, our future is doomed. People won't slow reproduction, they'll say "It's my right to have a child"... and the poor, uneducated people will still reproduce while the richer, more educated people won't. It's a nightmarish scenario and I have no idea if we'll ever be able to do enough to claw back some kind of future.

Spill that tea sis,

[Redway]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Absolutely. People seem to get very defensive when it comes to vegetarians and vegans, like they need to prove they're wrong somehow to make themselves feel better, it's really odd, atleast own it, like you do.

Part of it’s down to the attitudes of vegans themselves and their hate for all things meat. I’m yet to come across a vegan who doesn’t rub it in your face.

[Redway]

To all the cat and dog lovers on this thread - would you honestly save an animal life over a human life? If the answer’s no then there’s your answer re. which life form is superior. Capable of cruelty or not.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Redway

Part of it’s down to the attitudes of vegans themselves and their hate for all things meat. I’m yet to come across a vegan who doesn’t rub it in your face.

How would you know they were vegan if they didn't mention it?

[Redway]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

How would you know they were vegan if they didn't mention it?

I think you got my point.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Redway

To all the cat and dog lovers on this thread - would you honestly save an animal life over a human life? If the answer’s no then there’s your answer re. which life form is superior. Capable of cruelty or not.

It's not actually answering which life form is more superior, why did you reach that conclusion?

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Redway

I think you got my point.

No I didn't. Obviously the ones that didn't "rub it in your face" probably wouldn't have even mentioned it so you wouldn't even know, most people don't actually talk about what they eat unless the topic comes up like on here or you're in a restaurant :/

[Redway]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

It's not actually answering which life form is more superior, why did you reach that conclusion?

Why did I reach the conclusion that humans are the superior life form? Not being funny but are you serious?

[Redway]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

No I didn't. Obviously the ones that didn't "rub it in your face" probably wouldn't have even mentioned it so you wouldn't even know, most people don't actually talk about what they eat unless the topic comes up like on here or you're in a restaurant :/

You can go all literal on me but you knew what I meant. My personal anecdotes don’t need to be quantified to a T because you disagree with them.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Redway

Why did I reach the conclusion that humans are the superior life form? Not being funny but are you serious?

Why do you start threads if your answer to everything is "you know what I mean" or "are you being serious?" if you don't want to discuss points you make on a forum, why even bother saying them?

Yes I'm being serious.

Originally Posted by Redway

You can go all literal on me but you knew what I meant. My personal anecdotes don’t need to be quantified to a T because you disagree with them.

Here we go again with "you know what I mean" ffs Just ignore the pretty valid point I made then because it doesn't suit you.

[Redway]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Why do you start threads if your answer to everything is "you know what I mean" or "are you being serious?" if you don't want to discuss points you make on a forum, why even bother saying them?

Yes I'm being serious.



Here we go again with "you know what I mean" ffs Just ignore the pretty valid point I made then because it doesn't suit you.

And what point were you trying to make?

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Redway

And what point were you trying to make?

Did you not read my post?

The point I was making was How would you know you were talking to a vegan unless they told you that they were vegans? You said every vegan you met "rubbed it in your face" so basically that's how you knew they were vegans, most people don't bring up their diets in ordinary circumstances, so you could have have been talking to plenty who didn't rub it in your face.

As an anecdote, my sons Karate teacher is vegan, I've known him for years, been on trips away with him and the group for competitions, I only found out a couple of months ago that he was vegan because my son mentioned it because he literally never spoke about it whenever I met him..because people don't usually talk about what they eat in normal life unless the topic specifically arises.

[Redway]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Did you not read my post?

The point I was making was How would you know you were talking to a vegan unless they told you they were the were vegans? You said every vegan you met "rubbed it in your face" so basically that's how you knew they were vegans, most people don't bring up their diets in ordinary circumstances, so you could have have been talking to plenty who didn't rub it in your face.

As an anecdote, my sons Karate teacher is vegan, I've known him for years, been on trips away with him and the group for competitions, I only found out a couple of months ago that he was vegan because my son mentioned it because he literally never spoke about it whenever I met him..because people don't usually talk about what they eat in normal life unless the topic specifically arises.

Imagine if I flipped my own personal anecdote the other way round and said the vast majority of vegans are tolerant of meat eaters and non-imposing. Would you still be asking how I could make such a broad generalisation about vegans without knowing the food status of everyone unless it specifically came up in conversation?

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Redway

Imagine if I flipped my own personal anecdote the other way round and said the vast majority of vegans are tolerant of meat eaters and non-imposing. Would you still be asking how I could make such a broad generalisation about vegans without knowing the food status of everyone unless it specifically came up in conversation?

I probably wouldn't because it's not a nasty, inflammatory statement to make about a group of people. That's not to say it would be more correct than what you did actually say though.

[Redway]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I probably wouldn't because it's not a nasty, inflammatory statement to make about a group of people. That's not to say it would be more correct than what you did actually say though.

I don’t remember saying anything overly nasty about vegans.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Redway

I don’t remember saying anything overly nasty about vegans.

Let me remind you :

Originally Posted by Redway

Two words: weak and sentimentality.

Not to mention intolerant and all-imposing.

[Redway]

Yup. I won’t deny that I think veganism’s rooted in weak sentimentality for the most part. Like I’ve already said. Or that too big a number of vegans are intolerant and all-imposing on meat and dairy consumers.

I still don’t see how that’s overly nasty towards vegans specifically though. Maybe because I’m not ultra-PC about describing movements like veganism or on the lookout to take offense from meat eaters at the drop of a hat.