Notices

Serious Debates & News Debate and discussion about political, moral, philosophical, celebrity and news topics.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 14-02-2019, 11:13 AM #26
Livia's Avatar
Livia Livia is offline
שטח זה להשכרה
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Brasov, Transylvania
Posts: 31,095


Livia Livia is offline
שטח זה להשכרה
Livia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Brasov, Transylvania
Posts: 31,095


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toy Soldier View Post
If she's a British citizen then she's our responsibility, is really the be all and end all of the discussion over whether or not she should be brought back into the UK. Countries can't just start saying "not our problem" and exiling. Why would anywhere else want her, either? So if she's dangerous / guilty and needs locked up, so be it, but if she's British then it's Britain that has to provide the cell I'm afraid.
Actually, she can deprived of her citizenship, whether she's naturalised or born here. Section 402 of the British Nationality Act 1981 says quite clearly that someone can be deprived of their citizenship of it's conducive to the public good.

They can also be left to face trial in the country they fled to, or they can be tried for war crimes in the International Criminal Court, although I don't think that would apply in this case.

Last edited by Livia; 14-02-2019 at 11:14 AM.
Livia is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 14-02-2019, 11:42 AM #27
Toy Soldier Toy Soldier is offline
-
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 30,350


Toy Soldier Toy Soldier is offline
-
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 30,350


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Livia View Post
Actually, she can deprived of her citizenship, whether she's naturalised or born here. Section 402 of the British Nationality Act 1981 says quite clearly that someone can be deprived of their citizenship of it's conducive to the public good.

They can also be left to face trial in the country they fled to, or they can be tried for war crimes in the International Criminal Court, although I don't think that would apply in this case.
I was thinking more along the lines of her being our moral responsibility rather than specifically a legal responsibility. If she was raised in the UK and ended up an extremist then IMO, while it is mainly the responsibility of her immediate family and those around her, there certainly isn't a country MORE responsible for it than the one she grew up in. If we don't want her in the UK, it's presumably because we think she's potentially a risk, and what does it say about us if we go down the route of "Well we think she's a risk so we're OK with her being out there in the world being a risk to everyone else; just so long as it isn't here!"

I suppose it's like... would you be happy if an extremist born and raised in the US was in the UK, saying they wanted to leave, but the US was like "Heck no we're not having them back, you can sort it out over there."
Toy Soldier is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 14-02-2019, 12:14 PM #28
parmnion's Avatar
parmnion parmnion is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: scotland
Posts: 41,477

Favourites (more):
BB2023: Hallie
BB18: Deborah


parmnion parmnion is offline
Senior Member
parmnion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: scotland
Posts: 41,477

Favourites (more):
BB2023: Hallie
BB18: Deborah


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by joeysteele View Post
That's what tipped the balance for me to say no too.
Absolutely right.
But do we know if she would have been in danger if she did denounce Isis?
parmnion is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 14-02-2019, 12:14 PM #29
LeatherTrumpet's Avatar
LeatherTrumpet LeatherTrumpet is offline
You know my methods
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 92,788


LeatherTrumpet LeatherTrumpet is offline
You know my methods
LeatherTrumpet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 92,788


Default

hopefully she will be brought back, assessed and jailed for her crime
LeatherTrumpet is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 14-02-2019, 12:14 PM #30
arista's Avatar
arista arista is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 165,081
arista arista is offline
Senior Member
arista's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 165,081
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn. View Post
Let her and her unborn suicide bomb rot tbh

She is British.


She is stuck in that Syria Camp
There is no British Consul at that wrecked nation.
So she must get to a Nation that has
a British Consul,
arista is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 14-02-2019, 12:32 PM #31
Livia's Avatar
Livia Livia is offline
שטח זה להשכרה
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Brasov, Transylvania
Posts: 31,095


Livia Livia is offline
שטח זה להשכרה
Livia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Brasov, Transylvania
Posts: 31,095


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toy Soldier View Post
I was thinking more along the lines of her being our moral responsibility rather than specifically a legal responsibility. If she was raised in the UK and ended up an extremist then IMO, while it is mainly the responsibility of her immediate family and those around her, there certainly isn't a country MORE responsible for it than the one she grew up in. If we don't want her in the UK, it's presumably because we think she's potentially a risk, and what does it say about us if we go down the route of "Well we think she's a risk so we're OK with her being out there in the world being a risk to everyone else; just so long as it isn't here!"

I suppose it's like... would you be happy if an extremist born and raised in the US was in the UK, saying they wanted to leave, but the US was like "Heck no we're not having them back, you can sort it out over there."
If we're not looking at the legal implications, but looking at it morally... she's not denounced IS, she doesn't regret joining them, she said seeing decapitated heads in a bin "did not faze her"... She has shown no remorse and expects us to take her back because she's pregnant. I'd say our moral responsibility to the wider British public means that will not happen. Also, if she does come back, they will have to "radicalise" her, she'd have to be kept under surveillance... denying her re-entry sets a precedent for anyone else thinking of joining a terrorist organisation who is at war with this country and imagining they can just come back here.

Regarding the last paragraph, I wouldn't be happy that we had to feed and clothe the American, who would be in a British prison for this scenario I imagine, but I'd understand the right of the USA to strip someone of their citizenship and would expect a quid pro quo from the US.
Livia is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 14-02-2019, 12:33 PM #32
Livia's Avatar
Livia Livia is offline
שטח זה להשכרה
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Brasov, Transylvania
Posts: 31,095


Livia Livia is offline
שטח זה להשכרה
Livia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Brasov, Transylvania
Posts: 31,095


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by arista View Post
She is British.


She is stuck in that Syria Camp
There is no British Consul at that wrecked nation.
So she must get to a Nation that has
a British Consul,
She is British... at the moment. Any minute now hopefully she'll be stateless and/or in prison.
Livia is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 14-02-2019, 12:38 PM #33
Oliver_W's Avatar
Oliver_W Oliver_W is offline
POW! BLAM!
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Bill's Secret Garden
Posts: 15,939

Favourites (more):
BBCanada 8: Chris
Apprentice 2019: Lottie


Oliver_W Oliver_W is offline
POW! BLAM!
Oliver_W's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Bill's Secret Garden
Posts: 15,939

Favourites (more):
BBCanada 8: Chris
Apprentice 2019: Lottie


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toy Soldier View Post
I was thinking more along the lines of her being our moral responsibility rather than specifically a legal responsibility.
Why should we have any moral responsibility for her?
__________________


Oliver_W is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 14-02-2019, 12:45 PM #34
Tom4784 Tom4784 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 45,095
Tom4784 Tom4784 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 45,095
Default

It's a difficult one, really. She was obviously radicalised young and indoctrinated but the lack of remorse is concerning. I'd say let her come back, have her face charges for crimes she's committed and hopefully in the process de-radicalise her so that her and her children may have a future. If that doesn't work then keep her locked up for as long as possible and hopefully the children's UK family can insure that history doesn't repeat itself when it comes to the next generation.

I'm reluctant to condemn her children for her errors in judgement.
Tom4784 is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 14-02-2019, 12:50 PM #35
arista's Avatar
arista arista is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 165,081
arista arista is offline
Senior Member
arista's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 165,081
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dezzy View Post
It's a difficult one, really. She was obviously radicalised young and indoctrinated but the lack of remorse is concerning. I'd say let her come back, have her face charges for crimes she's committed and hopefully in the process de-radicalise her so that her and her children may have a future. If that doesn't work then keep her locked up for as long as possible and hopefully the children's UK family can insure that history doesn't repeat itself when it comes to the next generation.

I'm reluctant to condemn her children for her errors in judgement.
She has to leave Syria
first

Last edited by arista; 14-02-2019 at 12:50 PM.
arista is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 14-02-2019, 12:55 PM #36
Niamh.'s Avatar
Niamh. Niamh. is offline
I Love my brick
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Ireland-The peoples Republic of Cork!
Posts: 142,140

Favourites (more):
BB19: Cian
IAC2018: Rita Simons


Niamh. Niamh. is offline
I Love my brick
Niamh.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Ireland-The peoples Republic of Cork!
Posts: 142,140

Favourites (more):
BB19: Cian
IAC2018: Rita Simons


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver_W View Post
Why should we have any moral responsibility for her?
I would imagine the "moral responsibility" is as a country rather than morally towards that girl
__________________

Spoiler:

Quote:
Originally Posted by GiRTh View Post
You compare Jim Davidson to Nelson Mandela?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesus. View Post
I know, how stupid? He's more like Gandhi.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Isaiah 7:14 View Post



Katie Hopkins reveals epilepsy made her suicidal - and says she identifies as a MAN
Quote:
Originally Posted by Livia View Post
Just because she is a giant cock, doesn't make her a man.
Niamh. is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 14-02-2019, 01:00 PM #37
Northern Monkey Northern Monkey is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 13,269

Favourites (more):
CBB21: Ann Widdecombe
BB18: Tom


Northern Monkey Northern Monkey is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 13,269

Favourites (more):
CBB21: Ann Widdecombe
BB18: Tom


Default

If she committed crimes in Syria then surely she should face trial there.Hand her to the Syrian government.
Northern Monkey is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 14-02-2019, 01:19 PM #38
bitontheslide's Avatar
bitontheslide bitontheslide is offline
self-oscillating
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 45,261

Favourites:
BB2023: Noky
BB19: Sian


bitontheslide bitontheslide is offline
self-oscillating
bitontheslide's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 45,261

Favourites:
BB2023: Noky
BB19: Sian


Default

i have no particular issue with her facing her crimes here. At a minimum she will be on a watch list for the rest of her life and it stops her from being a modern day martyr which is clearly the angle she is going for.
bitontheslide is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 14-02-2019, 02:41 PM #39
arista's Avatar
arista arista is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 165,081
arista arista is offline
Senior Member
arista's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 165,081
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Northern Monkey View Post
If she committed crimes in Syria then surely she should face trial there.Hand her to the Syrian government.


She does not trust them
and wants to return to London.

No one can prove anything
She left in after lust type Videos from Isis
arista is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 14-02-2019, 03:09 PM #40
Glenn. Glenn. is offline
Adios
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 19,818


Glenn. Glenn. is offline
Adios
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 19,818


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by arista View Post
She is British.


She is stuck in that Syria Camp
There is no British Consul at that wrecked nation.
So she must get to a Nation that has
a British Consul,
And holds none of our values.

Ok yeh the baby is at no fault. Let it slop out of her and bring that back. She can literally rot
__________________


“Stay away from people who act like a victim in a problem they created”
Glenn. is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 14-02-2019, 03:13 PM #41
Toy Soldier Toy Soldier is offline
-
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 30,350


Toy Soldier Toy Soldier is offline
-
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 30,350


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver_W View Post
Why should we have any moral responsibility for her?
Because she's a British citizen and was clearly radicalised in Britain. We have far more responsibility for her than any OTHER country does, so it's morally questionable to say "lol she's ur problem now, we don't want her here."

Again this is probably being confused with "her rights". I'm saying if she's a dangerous individual, she's our dangerous individual, and it's the UK's responsibility to make sure she's monitored. Not anyone else's. It's not OK to pretend that everything is fine so long as she's off "being dangerous overseas" and not on British soil.

Honestly, the double standards are staggering in Britain.

"Here's a dangerous individual living in Britain but born and raised elsewhere. Send him back there!!

...oh there's a dangerous individual born and raised in THIS country living over there? Keep them! Don't send them here!!"


At some point you have to pick a lane .
Toy Soldier is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 14-02-2019, 04:23 PM #42
parmnion's Avatar
parmnion parmnion is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: scotland
Posts: 41,477

Favourites (more):
BB2023: Hallie
BB18: Deborah


parmnion parmnion is offline
Senior Member
parmnion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: scotland
Posts: 41,477

Favourites (more):
BB2023: Hallie
BB18: Deborah


Default

Good points ts about her being radicalised here...a failing by the British authorities on allowing this to happen to her on our soil to me means we failed her....we allowed this to happen...therefore we need to see what can be done for her and especially her unborn child.

Last edited by parmnion; 14-02-2019 at 04:24 PM.
parmnion is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 14-02-2019, 04:31 PM #43
Denver's Avatar
Denver Denver is offline
I Cant Breathe
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: HomeTown
Posts: 57,017

Favourites (more):
BB2023: Tom
Strictly 2020: Bill Bailey


Denver Denver is offline
I Cant Breathe
Denver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: HomeTown
Posts: 57,017

Favourites (more):
BB2023: Tom
Strictly 2020: Bill Bailey


Default

Am I the only one thinking it's a plan to make an attack on Brotian
__________________

Spoiler:

[/CENTER]

Denver is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 14-02-2019, 04:32 PM #44
arista's Avatar
arista arista is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 165,081
arista arista is offline
Senior Member
arista's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 165,081
Default

The Home Office
has said they are not going out to get her back.
So she must
Get back on her own.

Her dad claims its not her fault
https://news.sky.com/story/father-of...given-11637331
arista is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 14-02-2019, 04:33 PM #45
arista's Avatar
arista arista is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 165,081
arista arista is offline
Senior Member
arista's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 165,081
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam. View Post
Am I the only one thinking it's a plan to make an attack on Britain

Not so far


Isis Sleeper cells are in the UK already
arista is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 14-02-2019, 04:43 PM #46
Oliver_W's Avatar
Oliver_W Oliver_W is offline
POW! BLAM!
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Bill's Secret Garden
Posts: 15,939

Favourites (more):
BBCanada 8: Chris
Apprentice 2019: Lottie


Oliver_W Oliver_W is offline
POW! BLAM!
Oliver_W's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Bill's Secret Garden
Posts: 15,939

Favourites (more):
BBCanada 8: Chris
Apprentice 2019: Lottie


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam. View Post
Am I the only one thinking it's a plan to make an attack on Brotian
Who's Brotian?
__________________


Oliver_W is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 14-02-2019, 05:03 PM #47
arista's Avatar
arista arista is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 165,081
arista arista is offline
Senior Member
arista's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 165,081
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver_W View Post
Who's Brotian?

Typo
arista is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 14-02-2019, 05:05 PM #48
Livia's Avatar
Livia Livia is offline
שטח זה להשכרה
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Brasov, Transylvania
Posts: 31,095


Livia Livia is offline
שטח זה להשכרה
Livia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Brasov, Transylvania
Posts: 31,095


Default

If we allowed her back she'd have to be deradicalized and then she'd be under surveillance. All those resources, when we're already overstretched dealing with her fellow IS supporters. It's not good enough to say she's British and we must take her back. We really don't have to. There is a line and she crossed it, and she said herself that she doesn't regret it.

I wonder if her Dutch husband will be welcomed home?
Livia is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 14-02-2019, 05:32 PM #49
arista's Avatar
arista arista is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 165,081
arista arista is offline
Senior Member
arista's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 165,081
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Livia View Post
If we allowed her back she'd have to be deradicalized and then she'd be under surveillance. All those resources, when we're already overstretched dealing with her fellow IS supporters. It's not good enough to say she's British and we must take her back. We really don't have to. There is a line and she crossed it, and she said herself that she doesn't regret it.

I wonder if her Dutch husband will be welcomed home?

Is he Alive?
arista is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 14-02-2019, 05:33 PM #50
Oliver_W's Avatar
Oliver_W Oliver_W is offline
POW! BLAM!
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Bill's Secret Garden
Posts: 15,939

Favourites (more):
BBCanada 8: Chris
Apprentice 2019: Lottie


Oliver_W Oliver_W is offline
POW! BLAM!
Oliver_W's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Bill's Secret Garden
Posts: 15,939

Favourites (more):
BBCanada 8: Chris
Apprentice 2019: Lottie


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Livia View Post
If we allowed her back she'd have to be deradicalized and then she'd be under surveillance. All those resources, when we're already overstretched dealing with her fellow IS supporters. It's not good enough to say she's British and we must take her back. We really don't have to. There is a line and she crossed it, and she said herself that she doesn't regret it.

I wonder if her Dutch husband will be welcomed home?
Exactly, it would be less costly and safer to just keep her away.
__________________


Oliver_W is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Reply

Bookmark/share this topic

Tags
19, exlondon, home, isis, join, ran, schoolgirl, uk

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 05:18 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
 

About Us ThisisBigBrother.com

"Big Brother and UK Television Forum. Est. 2001"

 

© 2023
no new posts