[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Here is a link that says otherwise for Arista who loves Brexit

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47036119

US lobby groups for agriculture and pharmaceutical firms want UK standards changed to be closer to those of the US in a post-Brexit trade deal.

The meat lobby wants the sale of growth hormone-fed beef, currently banned in the UK and EU, to be allowed in the UK.

The drugs company lobby wants changes to the NHS drugs approval process to allow it to buy more of US drugs.

They are also asking US officials - who will hold a hearing later - to seek lower tariffs on agricultural goods.

The farming groups say any deal should move away from EU standards, including rules governing genetically modified crops, antibiotics in meats, and pesticides and herbicides, such as glyphosate.

brexit britain

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Americans with no health issues ...yeah me neither

Well if that's a result of chlorinated chicken then what's our excuse

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Well if that's a result of chlorinated chicken then what's our excuse

we have plenty of our own health issues without importing more

[Kazanne]

Fight back ,go veggie,you'll be healthier

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Fight back ,go veggie,you'll be healthier

You'll have to. When American big pharma comes here NHS drugs will be far more expensive

[Toy Soldier]

Tbh what you actually eat will still come down to personal choice... You can always go organic.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

You'll have to. When American big pharma comes here NHS drugs will be far more expensive

Tbh it's more complicated than that; the price will only increase if the American health insurance model comes with the big pharma. Of course with Tory governments that's always a risk, too.

Basically American drugs are so expensive because of the never ending insurance adjustments waltz between the hospitals / pharma companies / insurance companies.

[Toy Soldier]

Tbh tbh tbh. I'm tbh everything today tbh.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Tbh what you actually eat will still come down to personal choice... You can always go organic.

Lol if you can afford it?

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Cherie

[/B]





Lol if you can afford it?

True, but in all honesty our non-organic chicken is muck anyway. The hormones are more of a concern but if you're OK with eating cheap chicken currently, allowing it to be chlorinated realistically won't make a huge difference.

I'm more concerned about the pesticides they're likely to legalise when they have free reign.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

True, but in all honesty our non-organic chicken is muck anyway. The hormones are more of a concern but if you're OK with eating cheap chicken currently, allowing it to be chlorinated realistically won't make a huge difference.

I'm more concerned about the pesticides they're likely to legalise when they have free reign.

Im not addressing chlorinated chicken per se as I think that is the least worrying of the three in the OP, but its what most who have responded have seemed to hone in on, at least you can wash off chlorine, growth hormones and pesticides are another matter

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Fight back ,go veggie,you'll be healthier

I have done Kazanne.
I've been moving to it since my late teens anyway.

[Northern Monkey]

TS has a point.Just because US chicken will be available to us doesn’t mean we’ll have to buy it.Just vote with your pockets and buy UK/Euro chicken.
Let the market decide.

In restaurants if enough people explicitly say they don’t want US chicken then the restaurants won’t use it.
Infact there may end up being signs and notes on the menus.
‘All our chicken is from non US sources’.

They can’t force it on people’s plates.
Consumer power.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

TS has a point.Just because US chicken will be available to us doesn’t mean we’ll have to buy it.Just vote with your pockets and buy UK/Euro chicken.
Let the market decide.

In restaurants if enough people explicitly say they don’t want US chicken then the restaurants won’t use it.
Infact there may end up being signs and notes on the menus.
‘All our chicken is from non US sources’.

They can’t force it on people’s plates.
Consumer power.

They already like to mark fresh meat with "British", "Scottish" etc. as a selling point and I can't see that changing.

The main concern will be processed food I imagine, where to source of the meat is less clear. But honestly who is buying chikky nug-nugs expecting them to be the healthy additive-free choice? The problems in terms of individual consumption are only ever, as always, going to be from eating junk foods in excess.

If they change pesticide regulations to match the US, on the other hand, it's another story and quite a worrying one. It's not about what gets into the food, it's about the effect that these things are having on insect populations and pollenation.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

TS has a point.Just because US chicken will be available to us doesn’t mean we’ll have to buy it.Just vote with your pockets and buy UK/Euro chicken.
Let the market decide.

In restaurants if enough people explicitly say they don’t want US chicken then the restaurants won’t use it.
Infact there may end up being signs and notes on the menus.
‘All our chicken is from non US sources’.

They can’t force it on people’s plates.
Consumer power.

That not the point though, we shouldn't be importing sub standard products after Brexit just to get 'a deal' otherwise the UK is being held hostage to an even worse scenario than we currently have....I thought the whole point of Brexit was that we held our own destiny in our hands, not that you best take this sub standard crap otherwise we aint playing ......the idea that Brexiteers are even on board with this scenario is pretty laughable...looks like a case of well obvs I won’t be eating it but some other mug can have the pleasure

[Twosugars]

Brexiteers are free marketeers, Fox wants zero import tariffs. That'd wipe out British agriculture and manufacturing.
All these factory workers voting for brexit are like turkeys voting for Christmas.
I'd laugh if it wasn't so tragic
People were conned. Nothing was said about that, only immigration.
And non eu immigration is already soaring.
But that's ok according to Gove bc now we have a democratic control. Bollox. UK always had control over non eu immigration. People were expecting reduction in numbers. One big con.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Cherie

That not the point though, we shouldn't be importing sub standard products after Brexit just to get 'a deal' otherwise the UK is being held hostage to an even worse scenario than we currently have....I thought the whole point of Brexit was that we held our own destiny in our hands, not that you best take this sub standard crap otherwise we aint playing ......the idea that Brexiteers are even on board with this scenario is pretty laughable...looks like a case of well obvs I won’t be eating it but some other mug can have the pleasure

Well Brexit does allow us to accept chlorinated chicken where previously the EU barred it. Whether we want to or not is our own decision but I find it odd that it can excite passions so much when people very rarely look into the background of the food they eat, when they'd probably never known about this aspect of farming before now and when it's not exactly had disastrous effects in the US

Imo this is a completely trivial issue which has become a lightning rod for anti Brexit campaigners

[joeysteele]

It is an issue because as the USA is indicating trade deals with the USA could have some reliance on accepting these meats.

Which our governments have refused to do in line with EU guidelines on the issue.
If we do start breaking down our standards as to any food, just to acquire new trading deals.
What does that really say about us.

It's actually quite an issue, a choice too, however it is an issue relating to possible welfare of those pro or anti brexit who eat these types of meat.

No one has made much noise of even wanting USA imports of these meats before.
Being content with the standards we already have and not liking much the USA standards at all.
So is clearly an issue, for all meat eaters.

[MTVN]

Yes but people act as if we'd be adopting some barbaric practice which will be disastrous for our food quality which is all just hyperbole. The US would strongly disagree with the EU that it lowers food standards so its within our gift to approach the issue independently and make our own decision now rather than being bound by what the EU had decided. If you actually read what the US ambassador said its quite reasonable:

This week the United States published our objectives for a future trade deal with the UK. We are now ready to negotiate the most ambitious and comprehensive trade deal in the history of our special relationship. And of course we want agriculture to be part of those negotiations – it is a great opportunity for both of us.

You have been presented with a false choice: either stick to EU directives, or find yourselves flooded with American food of the lowest quality. Inflammatory and misleading terms like “chlorinated chicken” and “hormone beef” are deployed to cast American farming in the worst possible light.

It is time the myths are called out for what they really are: a smear campaign from people with their own protectionist agenda. There is a difference between American and European agriculture. It is not a question of quality but philosophy.

The EU approach prizes history and tradition over innovation and science. In the United States, we look at the bigger picture. We have to. We export more food than any other country. We take our responsibility to produce safe, affordable food for the rest of the world incredibly seriously.

We cannot overlook the fact that the world population is expected to reach almost 10 billion by 2050. Global food security is absolutely critical. We have to face up to the full range of health, resource and environmental pressures that come from a growing population. It is not sustainable for the whole world to follow the EU’s “Museum of Agriculture” approach. We have to look to the future of farming, not just the past.

American farmers are using all the scientific and technological tools at their disposal to address the challenges ahead. We have developed crops which are more resistant to drought. We have bred innovative new varieties of fruit and vegetables which can stay fresh and help us combat food waste. We have boosted the ability of our animals to fight devastating diseases. We have developed agricultural tools which radically cut the amount of carbon emissions on our farms.

American farmers are making a vital contribution to the rest of the world. Their efforts deserve to be recognised. Instead, they are being dismissed with misleading scare-stories which only tell you half the story. The reality is, as ever, a lot more nuanced.

Take the case of so-called chlorinated chicken. It is true that we wash our chicken to eliminate harmful pathogens – just as European producers do with their fruit and vegetables.

There is very good reason for doing so. The EU’s own Food Safety Authority has found that doing these washes in the processing plant is the most effective and economical way of dealing with potentially lethal bacteria like salmonella and campylobacter. It is not only safe to wash our chicken like this – it is a public safety no-brainer.

American beef has also been unfairly attacked for decades. The EU claims the moral high ground for its choice not to use growth hormones in cattle production. But again, there are good reasons American farmers choose a different path.

They want to produce meat using fewer resources at a lower cost to both the environment and the consumer. The scientific consensus has been very clear that it remains completely safe to eat meat from animals raised in this way. There is no reason to limit imports of American beef – which is why the World Trade Organisation ruled we were fully within our rights to take action against the EU for not complying with its obligations.

The picture you are being painted of American agriculture bears no resemblance to the reality on the ground. The fact is that farmers in America have the same priorities as farmers in Britain. They pass on their farms from one generation to the next. They care deeply about their land and livestock and they take tremendous pride in the food they produce.

You will find the highest quality food in the world in the United States – from our wild salmon, to our world-beating wines, and beef used in only the finest restaurants. If you want food made to the highest standards of sustainability, animal welfare or organic farming, America can offer all of that.

It is always worth hearing the full story. It would be a genuine missed opportunity to buy into the idea that the EU’s traditionalist approach to agriculture is Britain’s only option for a quality and efficient agriculture sector moving forward. You now have the freedom to make your own choices about the way you farm and fish, the products you import, and the technology you utilise. This is the country that once changed the world with the innovations and revolutions that took place on British farms. You could do the same thing again now and together we could shape the agricultural revolution of the future.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...m-agriculture/

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Well Brexit does allow us to accept chlorinated chicken where previously the EU barred it. Whether we want to or not is our own decision but I find it odd that it can excite passions so much when people very rarely look into the background of the food they eat, when they'd probably never known about this aspect of farming before now and when it's not exactly had disastrous effects in the US

Imo this is a completely trivial issue which has become a lightning rod for anti Brexit campaigners

Well that is certainly a spin on we are in control....

its very patronising to say the British consumer is not conscious of where their food comes from, since the BSE scandal consumers are very keen know where their food comes

Its all very well saying consumers will have a choice of what to buy, but this food will find its way into school dinners, hospitals and care homes where cost is the bottom line

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Yes but people act as if we'd be adopting some barbaric practice which will be disastrous for our food quality which is all just hyperbole. The US would strongly disagree with the EU that it lowers food standards so its within our gift to approach the issue independently and make our own decision now rather than being bound by what the EU had decided. If you actually read what the US ambassador said its quite reasonable:

The Americans saving the environment by pumping their cattle with hormones, wow that's some claim, I assume everyone washes their own vegetables before they eat them? so what they were previously washed in is immaterial? The advice is never to wash chicken before cooking

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I have done Kazanne.
I've been moving to it since my late teens anyway.

Good for you Joey,you soon get used to it,they have some lovely veggie foods now.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Cherie

The advice is never to wash chicken before cooking

The reason for that, though, is that it invariably leads to "splashback" spreading the bacteria from raw chicken to the sink area / any nearby dishes or cutlery and that's where contamination occurs whereas if chicken is in date and properly cooked through there shouldn't really be any risk of food poisoning. Although a lot of people undercook chicken.

As you know Cherie I'm firmly anti-Brexit but I think this particular issue is a red herring; I have some concerns about American farming METHODS such as overuse of pesticide / use of pesticides banned here but that's an environmental concern. I honestly don't think there's anything at all wrong with the quality of US produced fresh food. The American health crisis (just like our own) is down to what's done with those products afterwards... i.e. their processed foods, which are full of vast quantities of high fructose corn syrup, MSG, hydrogenated fats and other chemical additives. That "extra-specially fat American" image that you see, that seems to be far less common across the rest of the world, is largely down to snacks full of corn syrup and hydrogenated fats being widely available and very cheap.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

The reason for that, though, is that it invariably leads to "splashback" spreading the bacteria from raw chicken to the sink area / any nearby dishes or cutlery and that's where contamination occurs whereas if chicken is in date and properly cooked through there shouldn't really be any risk of food poisoning. Although a lot of people undercook chicken.

As you know Cherie I'm firmly anti-Brexit but I think this particular issue is a red herring; I have some concerns about American farming METHODS such as overuse of pesticide / use of pesticides banned here but that's an environmental concern. I honestly don't think there's anything at all wrong with the quality of US produced fresh food. The American health crisis (just like our own) is down to what's done with those products afterwards... i.e. their processed foods, which are full of vast quantities of high fructose corn syrup, MSG, hydrogenated fats and other chemical additives. That "extra-specially fat American" image that you see, that seems to be far less common across the rest of the world, is largely down to snacks full of corn syrup and hydrogenated fats being widely available and very cheap.

Should we not be learning from our past mistakes? Obesity in Britain is down to our love and import of many things American in particular their fast food chains, in this new dawn, and when 'we are in control of our own trade deals' the brave thing to do would be to pick and choose what we import, I don't know why you are saying its a red herring I was just listening to Liam Fox talking about this, and the alternative to not taking this type of product is to import more American organic but of course that wont be a money spinner now will it and won't be taken up by our Acadamys, hospitals and care homes, and again I reiterate not sure why everyone is foccused on chlorination when the other two issues are a far grimmer prospect

[Toy Soldier]

I disagree Cherie; obesity / diabetes crisis is caused by a combination of abundantly available processed food in supermarkets (which didn't used to be available), and poor mental health (which has always been a thing but is increasing). Emotionally healthy people don't become obese no matter what food is available. It's not the food.