[Elliot]

I feel like if it isn’t a collective say it’s not a very healthy relationship. Having a baby and being a parent is a pretty ****ing life changing decision. It’s unfair on either party if anyone goes behind anyone’s back to do something this important. Of course this situation is a bit different and it is as if he wanted to force her to be a mom, but this is more @ people in this thread that it’s only up to the women, which seems a bit unfair

[Tom4784]

Until men can find a way to carry babies to term then it's completely the woman's decision. To suggest otherwise is a slippery slope.

As men, we must accept that our role in the child birth process is at the beginning and at the end. We're there for conception, We'll raise the child when it's born but during pregnancy, we can't take that burden for the woman instead, we can only watch and be supportive so we shouldn't have a say if a woman wants an abortion.

[Denver]

Originally Posted by Elliot

I feel like if it isn’t a collective say it’s not a very healthy relationship. Having a baby and being a parent is a pretty ****ing life changing decision. It’s unfair on either party if anyone goes behind anyone’s back to do something this important. Of course this situation is a bit different and it is as if he wanted to force her to be a mom, but this is more @ people in this thread that it’s only up to the women, which seems a bit unfair

But the same people would expect a man to pay child maintenance even if he said he didnt want the child

[Tom4784]

Then he should have worn a condom.

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Until men can find a way to carry babies to term then it's completely the woman's decision. To suggest otherwise is a slippery slope.

As men, we must accept that our role in the child birth process is at the beginning and at the end. We're there for conception, We'll raise the child when it's born but during pregnancy, we can't take that burden for the woman instead, we can only watch and be supportive so we shouldn't have a say if a woman wants an abortion.

No man would stay in a relationship if a woman aborted his and her baby without a discussion

or at least i hope he wouldn't

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

No man would stay in a relationship if a woman aborted his and her baby without a discussion

or at least i hope he wouldn't

Considering the man in the story, that sounds like a blessing for her.

[Denver]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Then he should have worn a condom.

So your saying women cant be forced in to being a parent but men can? do you know how ****ed up that is?

women are just as guilty for unprotected sex its not a one way blame

[Tom4784]

Also, you can keep calling it a baby but it won't make it so, using emotive language won't make a bunch a cells a baby no matter how hard you try to push that false narrative.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Adam.

So your saying women cant be forced in to being a parent but men can? do you know how ****ed up that is?

women are just as guilty for unprotected sex its not a one way blame

I've never gotten anyone pregnant because I'm careful, I don't want a baby, I don't want to risk having a baby. I only get into relationships with people who feel the same way.

I doubt there will ever be an occasion where I get someone pregnant unless it's mutually decided that it's what we both want, if men aren't that careful then it's their own fault that they'll have to put money forward for a baby in nine months time.

You can't compare men being forced to pay for a baby they created to forcing a woman through pregnancy. It's a stupid comparison.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

He pleaded with her not to have an abortion so he knew. It's not like she just upped and popped an abo-bo pill one day and even if she did, it's her right to do so.

It's down to the women's discretion whether they want to discuss it or not.

I'm talking more "in general" than this specific case, it doesn't sound like it was a very healthy relationship (if it even was one?) in the first place so that's not what I'm really talking about.

I guess I agree with the BIB, however...

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

No man would stay in a relationship if a woman aborted his and her baby without a discussion

or at least i hope he wouldn't

I also am inclined to agree with LT on this one. It's entirely at the woman's discretion if she chooses to discuss it, yes, BUT I would say that if she chooses not to it should be a MAJOR red flag that there is something very wrong and unhealthy with that relationship, and it should prompt both parties to seriously reconsider being in that relationship at all. Again the final decision is the womans and I'm not disputing that; but the attitude of "meh I'll just away and do it without mentioning it" being acceptable in a respectful adult relationship? Just... no. That relationship is trash.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

I've never gotten anyone pregnant because I'm careful, I don't want a baby, I don't want to risk having a baby. I only get into relationships with people who feel the same way.

I doubt there will ever be an occasion where I get someone pregnant unless it's mutually decided that it's what we both want, if men aren't that careful then it's their own fault

Dezzy honestly this is so naive that I'm wondering if you've actually been in a long or long-ish term heterosexual sexual relationship? I'm sorry as that's obviously a very personal question but... it's so far from that simple, that I can only assume someone who hasn't been there would think this is accurate .

Biology is strong, we exist to reproduce, life finds a way. Unless one or both partners is actually infertile, there is no way to eliminate the risk of pregnancy. "Careful" just doesn't cut it.

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Also, you can keep calling it a baby but it won't make it so, using emotive language won't make a bunch a cells a baby no matter how hard you try to push that false narrative.

er

we are all a bunch of cells

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Dezzy honestly this is so naive that I'm wondering if you've actually been in a long or long-ish term heterosexual sexual relationship? I'm sorry as that's obviously a very personal question but... it's so far from that simple, that I can only assume someone who hasn't been there would think this is accurate .

Biology is strong, we exist to reproduce, life finds a way. Unless one or both partners is actually infertile, there is no way to eliminate the risk of pregnancy. "Careful" just doesn't cut it.

Oh cool, attack me. That's reasonable. Your experiences aren't universal, your relationships are different to mine but that doesn't mean I'm gonna make you out to be a liar just because your outlook doesn't line up with mine. What you've done is just try to undermine me personally instead of arguing against my opinion.

The chances of a condom breaking or not working in any way is critically low, if that did happen to me and whoever I was with at the time wanted to keep the baby then I'd accept it and do the best I can. I don't want babies but you can sure as hell bet I wouldn't demand she have an abortion or think that I was right to. Like I said before though, I only tend to enter relationships with people are on the same page as me when it comes to the big picture. It's a conversation I always have early on because it's a deal breaker if we don't agree.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

er

we are all a bunch of cells

We can support our own existence, a six week old fetus (more like a microscopic egg at that point) can not.

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

We can support our own existence, a six week old fetus (more like a microscopic egg at that point) can not.

a baby/child cannot either

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Oh cool, attack me. That's reasonable. Your experiences aren't universal, your relationships are different to mine but that doesn't mean I'm gonna make you out to be a liar just because your outlook doesn't line up with mine. What you've done is just try to undermine me personally instead of arguing against my opinion.

The chances of a condom breaking or not working in any way is critically low, if that did happen to me and whoever I was with at the time wanted to keep the baby then I'd accept it and do the best I can. I don't want babies but you can sure as hell bet I wouldn't demand she have an abortion or think that I was right to. Like I said before though, I only tend to enter relationships with people are on the same page as me when it comes to the big picture. It's a conversation I always have early on because it's a deal breaker if we don't agree.

Personally I don't see how it was an attack, I'm not making any judgement based on the extent of your male-female relationships and I said I know it's an overly personal question. However, I don't know of anyone - literally anyone - who has regularly (as in several times per week) been engaging in heterosexual "fertile" sex for a prolonged period of time, be that with a long term partner or several partners, who has not had at least one "pregnancy scare". Condom failure rates are critically low, sure. 98%+. Which means that if you've had sex 500+ times you are pretty much statistically certain to have had at least one failure.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Considering the man in the story, that sounds like a blessing for her.

Indeed

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

a baby/child cannot either

If you separate a fetus from the womb, it will die pretty quickly because it can't exist outside of the womb or a womb-like environment.

Babies can support their own life but not their needs, just like any other person, they'll die without food or water.

You can't compare the two with a straight face.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Personally I don't see how it was an attack, I'm not making any judgement based on the extent of your male-female relationships and I said I know it's an overly personal question. However, I don't know of anyone - literally anyone - who has regularly (as in several times per week) been engaging in heterosexual "fertile" sex for a prolonged period of time, be that with a long term partner or several partners, who has not had at least one "pregnancy scare". Condom failure rates are critically low, sure. 98%+. Which means that if you've had sex 500+ times you are pretty much statistically certain to have had at least one failure.

It did come across as patronising towards Dezzy tbf TS, if someone has very strong feelings on not wanting kids they well be extra careful, I have a very close friend who's like this, she's married and my age and has never had a pregnancy scare because she really really doesn't want kids.......

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Personally I don't see how it was an attack, I'm not making any judgement based on the extent of your male-female relationships and I said I know it's an overly personal question. However, I don't know of anyone - literally anyone - who has regularly (as in several times per week) been engaging in heterosexual "fertile" sex for a prolonged period of time, be that with a long term partner or several partners, who has not had at least one "pregnancy scare". Condom failure rates are critically low, sure. 98%+. Which means that if you've had sex 500+ times you are pretty much statistically certain to have had at least one failure.

It was an attack because you basically tried to put doubt on my experiences because they weren't like your own.

As for the condom argument, that is why most of the women I've been with are either on the pill or have an implant, it's nigh on impossible for both to fail at the same time.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

It was an attack because you basically tried to put doubt on my experiences because they weren't like your own.



As for the condom argument, that is why most of the women I've been with are either on the pill or have an implant, it's nigh on impossible for both to fail at the same time.

I mean it was pointing out a mathematical fact (that the more possible-pregnancy sex situations you're in, the higher the likelihood of contraceptive failure) but I suppose "Argh I've been attacked" is as good a counter argument to that as any, since there aren't any.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I mean it was pointing out a mathematical fact (that the more possible-pregnancy sex situations you're in, the higher the likelihood of contraceptive failure) but I suppose "Argh I've been attacked" is as good a counter argument to that as any, since there aren't any.

Except the one I said in the post you quoted but you do you, sis.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Except the one I said in the post you quoted but you do you, sis.

Well not to do a Livia and jobgasm, but if you understand odds and probability, you also understand that increasing the number of fixed variables doesn't change the fact that more chances = more likelihood. I mean if you want actual figures;

Condom failure is 98% (thus odds of failure are 50/1)

The pill has a "perfect" (lab) rate of 99% but a "real terms" rate of 91%, we'll split the difference and call that 95% or 20/1

The combined odds therefore are 50/1x20/1 = 1000/1, or 99.99% effective.

Which means if a couple is together for 10 years and has sex 100 times per year, using condoms and the pill, it is probable that they will experience one failure. I personally think with the best will in the world perfect usage is unlikely and even that 1000/1 figure is unrealistic, but I suppose with extreme vigilance possible. That doesn't really mean much in real world scenarios, though.

As most are only using one form of contraception the failure rate is 1 or 2 in 100, which means if a couple has sex 100 times a year, they will have 1 or 2 failures a year. If they have sex 200 times a year, they will have 2 to 4 failures. And so on. Again... you literally cannot argue against the maths of probability, it's not possible. If it was the scumbags I work for wouldn't be in business .

[Vicky.]

My sister is pregnant currently. Her partner was using condoms and she was on contraception too. Very very rare, but it does happen still even with multiple contraception methods. The only way to definitely not get pregnant/get someone pregnant is to never have sex. I was going to say be sterilized, however a man I know got that done and then got his wife pregnant a few years later!

Obviously condoms lessen the risks though, massively.

[LeatherTrumpet]

Sex 100 times a year?

Bloody Hell TS this isnt Caligula