[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

You misunderstood.
I don't blame Olivier (or myself) for past acts of discrimination of non-white people.
But I do take issue with people on the right claiming ignorance of where right wing extremism comes from and why it's a problem.
Parmnion asked if whites get accused of racism more bc there's more of them, Olivier thinks the history or inter-race relations doesn't matter bc it started before he was born. Others questioned why we should discuss right wing terrorism at all. That's what I object to, this attempt at pretending the issue doesn't exist or bc we have anti-discrimination laws so it must be ok. Truly Trumpian view of the world.

Of course right wing terrorism should be discussed, I never took issue with that. What I did mean was any reason to dislike whites for the past can be applied to muslims in the present, and both are stupid. "Imperialism" doesn't excuse screeching on about how whites are inherently evil, just as islamic terror attacks don't mean all muslims are terrorists.

[parmnion]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

now let me think

who invaded and colonised most of non-white countries? whites... is that really true?
who treated the indigenous populations as inferior and expoited them? whites.......We're they the only ones ?+
who established slave-trade and supremacist ideologies like nazism? whites.....can you post proof.

...go away with your baiting facepalm thingy.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

He’s right though.Just because he doesn’t agree with you doesn’t mean he lacks knowledge.

Some of the people who shout the loudest of not judging every Muslim by the actions of a minority then go on to judge white people on the actions of their distant ancestors.

Race will always be an issue if we’re constantly bringing it up.

Defining people of a certain ethnicity by the actions of other people of that ethnicity is racism.
We’re all human.Let’s stop trying to put everyone in categories.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Moniqua

educate them

So by that logic you as an Irish person are responsible for all past IRA atrocities?

[parmnion]

Originally Posted by Cherie

So by that logic you as an Irish person are responsible for all past IRA atrocities?

Don't really matter, she will be pardoned.

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by parmnion

...go away with your baiting facepalm thingy.

the emoji is there to be used if appropriate
if you don't like it take it up with the mods

and stop editing my posts! look at the mess in the last post of mine you quoted
I won't be answering to it btw; if you've never heard of colonialism (or pretend you haven't) go and read up

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by Cherie

So by that logic you as an Irish person are responsible for all past IRA atrocities?

nobody's claiming that so stop

[parmnion]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

the emoji is there to be used if appropriate
if you don't like it take it up with the mods

and stop editing my posts! look at the mess in the last post of mine you quoted
I won't be answering to it btw; if you've never heard of colonialism (or pretend you haven't) go and read up

Only white people did that in your eyes....go fact check your history lesson.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

nobody's claiming that so stop

what are you claiming then?

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by Cherie

what are you claiming then?

I replied to NM about that.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

I won't be answering to it btw; if you've never heard of colonialism (or pretend you haven't) go and read up

Your first mention of colonialism was in reply to this, from Parm: So why is it that white people for want of a better phrase always get the most anger aimed at them for being what is described as racist these days?

Colonialism isn't "these days", it's in the past. May as well blame current muslims for the Ottomon Empire.

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

Your first mention of colonialism was in reply to this, from Parm: So why is it that white people for want of a better phrase always get the most anger aimed at them for being what is described as racist these days?

Colonialism isn't "these days", it's in the past. May as well blame current muslims for the Ottomon Empire.

Only fair to seek answers in historical context.

What would be your answer to Parm's question?

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Don't really matter, she will be pardoned.

Are you saying the Irish get preferential treatment?

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

Only fair to seek answers in historical context.

What would be your answer to Parm's question?

My flippant answer "people are stupid", but the real answer is that some people get caught up in tribalism and identity politics, which bang on about "white privilege" and various forms of critical theory, so it gets to the point where in their heads, every single white person is representative of an apocryphal oppressive system. Every person is representative and responsible for themself and their own actions, there's never an excuse for collective blame.

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

My flippant answer "people are stupid", but the real answer is that some people get caught up in tribalism and identity politics, which bang on about "white privilege" and various forms of critical theory, so it gets to the point where in their heads, every single white person is representative of an apocryphal oppressive system. Every person is representative and responsible for themself and their own actions, there's never an excuse for collective blame.

Difficult not get "caught up" in tribalism and identity politics if these very things are quoted as justification for attrocities by the perpetrators themselves.
This last atrocity comes with a long manifesto for example. Previous ones also came with justifications.
I'm not blaming every person, but I'd certainly blame the perpetrators, their supporters and their apologists. I think that's fair enough, as you say they are responsible for their actions.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

Difficult not get "caught up" in tribalism and identity politics if these very things are quoted as justification for attrocities by the perpetrators themselves.
This last atrocity comes with a long manifesto for example. Previous ones also came with justifications.
I'm not blaming every person, but I'd certainly blame the perpetrators, their supporters and their apologists. I think that's fair enough, as you say they are responsible for their actions.

I prefer not to sink to the level of thinking the same way as terrorists, thanks.
I'm not gonna dignify the manifesto by reading it, any more than I'd read a charter by ISIS.

[parmnion]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

Are you saying the Irish get preferential treatment?

Are you really going to dispute that after this week's events?

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Are you really going to dispute that after this week's events?

No, I'm not. I don't know enough about it.
But I wonder what people who do know more, like Niamh, Cherie or Ramsay, would say.

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

I prefer not to sink to the level of thinking the same way as terrorists, thanks.
I'm not gonna dignify the manifesto by reading it, any more than I'd read a charter by ISIS.

Nobody's asking you to think like them. But it's only fair to read their justifications if you engage in detailed discussion about it.
It's called knowing what you're talking about. It may be an old-fashioned notion these days, but useful.

[JerseyWins]

Heard about this at work yesterday, that's tragic.. Apparently the guy recorded it all with like a go pro cam on his head so it was like a first person viewing like COD And he said "Let's get this party started" before he began the attack?

It's probably sickening to watch but I'm kinda curious, is the video online?

[Denver]

A 50th person has sadly died

[Denver]

Also a man from Oldham was arrested for posting support towards the attack

[Denver]

A truly remarkable woman the world needs more leaders like her

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Adam.

A truly remarkable woman the world needs more leaders like her

Gotta hand it to her and her government, they've handled the aftermath of this tragedy fantastically.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

Your first mention of colonialism was in reply to this, from Parm: So why is it that white people for want of a better phrase always get the most anger aimed at them for being what is described as racist these days?

Colonialism isn't "these days", it's in the past. May as well blame current muslims for the Ottomon Empire.

Things don't exist in a bubble. Society isn't the way it is "these days" just because, it's informed by its history both good and bad. It can't just be ignored.

Nobody's "blaming" anyone, they're putting things into context.