[Tony Montana]

A hospital has been forced to apologise after a nurse called a transgender woman dressed in an Ann Summers Mrs Claus outfit a man.
Chantelle Saunders, 34, said she was "very, very upset" by the remark from a nurse at Royal Devon and Exeter hospital.She claims the nurse said "er... it's a man" and replied with "erggh" after Chantelle told her she is actually transgender.
Chantelle, from Exeter, is transitioning from male to female and had visited the hospital on Christmas Eve last year in full make-up, wig and costume to spread some festive cheer.
In a letter the hospital told Chantelle that the nurse thought she was male because "you had a full beard and were dressed in male attire".
But bosses have now apologised and said they are keen to speak to Chantelle to see if they can "explore how we can resolve any remaining issues she has". Chantelle said she has never had a beard, even before she began her three year transition, and blasted the nurse's actions.
She said: "I was very, very upset. I'm a transgender woman - transitioning from male to female.
"I went to visit my friend in hospital on Christmas Eve on one of the RD&E ward.
"She was in having an operation and there was a nurse in the cubicle. I said 'Happy Christmas' and the nurse replied 'Er... it's a man'.
"I said 'No I'm a transgender woman' and she said 'errgh'.
"I complained at first to the NHS PALS (Patient Advice and Liaison Service) and I received a comment back from the assistant head of nursing who said they apologised for saying 'Happy Christmas Sir'.
"But I appealed and made another complaint about that because they didn't speak to me or speak to my two witnesses."Now I have had a letter back from the deputy chief executive/chief nurse which basically says that the nurse involved has no recollection of making the comment - but again they never spoke to my two witnesses."
The letter said: "All our staff undergo equality and diversity training as standard. Any form of discrimination is unacceptable to us as an organisation.
"If a patient is admitted we always enquire how they wish to be addressed (Mr, Mrs or by first name)'.
"The bit of the letter that has really upset me is this bit, it says 'However when a person is visited we are advised to address the person as they are seen.
"In your case I understand you had a full beard and were dressed in male attire."
Chantelle said if the hospital had contacted her witnesses they would all testify that she was dressed as a woman, as she has for the last three years since she began transitioning and taking female hormones.
She said: "I am always dressed as a woman. I had full make-up. I had my hair on. I am on female hormones and do not have a beard.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-new...calls-14252377

[bitontheslide]

i can understand confusion on a busy ward when someone is dressed up as Santa

Yeah, it's unfortunate, but I think this is more of a publicity crusade more than anything else.

[chuff me dizzy]

I smell a rat here Why would the nurse say "Sir" ? Ive never had anyone in the same position call me "Madam " you say "Merry Christmas" no need for the title

[Lostie!]

She claims the nurse said "er... it's a man" and replied with "erggh" after Chantelle told her she is actually transgender

[Livia]

Good that they take the time to make a grovelling apology to a transsexual woman, while elderly people are sitting in their own piss and not being given enough to eat or drink. Nice to see the NHS has it's ducks in a row when it comes to grovelling apologies and who gets them.

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

Good that they take the time to make a grovelling apology to a transsexual woman, while elderly people are sitting in their own piss and not being given enough to eat or drink. Nice to see the NHS has it's ducks in a row when it comes to grovelling apologies and who gets them.

The world has gone mad Livia, time the NHS got its priorities right !!

[Amy Jade]

The nurse was wrong for responding the way she did to be fair but is it really worth complaining about?

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Livia

Good that they take the time to make a grovelling apology to a transsexual woman, while elderly people are sitting in their own piss and not being given enough to eat or drink. Nice to see the NHS has it's ducks in a row when it comes to grovelling apologies and who gets them.

I mean I agree to an extent but surely it should be that care, compassion and apology is forthcoming to ALL... nit that "if the most deserving don't get one then NO ONE gets one".

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Livia

Good that they take the time to make a grovelling apology to a transsexual woman, while elderly people are sitting in their own piss and not being given enough to eat or drink. Nice to see the NHS has it's ducks in a row when it comes to grovelling apologies and who gets them.

Very forcefully put.
I'm in full agreement

I was visiting a relative in Hospital a couple of weeks ago.

Another old person in the bay with them, said they needed the toilet.

The Nurse said, we only took you an hour ago, we are busy now, we'll take you in half an hour.
Staggering and unacceptable.

[Matthew.]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I was visiting a relative in Hospital a couple of weeks ago.

Another old person in the bay with them, said they needed the toilet.

The Nurse said, we only took you an hour ago, we are busy now, we'll take you in half an hour.
Staggering and unacceptable.

Are you serious

That’s disgraceful

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Matthew.

Are you serious

That’s disgraceful

Deadly serious.
I and the person visiting with me have raised the issue which will likely get lip service only, it disregarded as we are not that person's next if kin or relative.

It is actually, although a minority of instances, terrifying what loved ones are treated like in some Hospitals by some staff.

I'm sorry but for me being overworked and understaffed doesn't cut it with me as an excuse for the removal of anyone's dignity.

[AnnieK]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Very forcefully put.
I'm in full agreement

I was visiting a relative in Hospital a couple of weeks ago.

Another old person in the bay with them, said they needed the toilet.

The Nurse said, we only took you an hour ago, we are busy now, we'll take you in half an hour.
Staggering and unacceptable.

I agree its unacceptable but the nurses could have been dispensing time critical meds, assisting other patients, the lady who said she needed the toilet could say that every 5 minutes....nurses are stretched to the limits due to budget cuts, there could have been.more pressing things.on the ward at that time, they cannot split themselves in half.

The day my mum was told she had terminal cancer and had weeks to live, bearing in mind at her admission to hospital, she thought she had pulled something in her back, when we left for the evening, she had a massive panic attack, the nurses sat with her to calm her breathing and did not leave her until she was calm. If another patient had needed the bathroom they would have had a judgement call to make....its not always that they are uncaring, sometimes they need to prioritise.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

I agree its unacceptable but the nurses could have been dispensing time critical meds, assisting other patients, the lady who said she needed the toilet could say that every 5 minutes....nurses are stretched to the limits due to budget cuts, there could have been.more pressing things.on the ward at that time, they cannot split themselves in half.

The day my mum was told she had terminal cancer and had weeks to live, bearing in mind at her admission to hospital, she thought she had pulled something in her back, when we left for the evening, she had a massive panic attack, the nurses sat with her to calm her breathing and did not leave her until she was calm. If another patient had needed the bathroom they would have had a judgement call to make....its not always that they are uncaring, sometimes they need to prioritise.

We were there visiting just under an hour and that patient hadn't asked in all that time, until the instance I highlighted.

Furthermore, even had they offered a bedpan would have been more acceptable.

Livia was right.
Literally people are left lying in wet beds, which ends up being even more time consuming for staff to deal with.
Then they likely moan at said patient.

Would you like to think your Parent got treated like that in hospital.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

I agree its unacceptable but the nurses could have been dispensing time critical meds, assisting other patients, the lady who said she needed the toilet could say that every 5 minutes....nurses are stretched to the limits due to budget cuts, there could have been.more pressing things.on the ward at that time, they cannot split themselves in half.

The day my mum was told she had terminal cancer and had weeks to live, bearing in mind at her admission to hospital, she thought she had pulled something in her back, when we left for the evening, she had a massive panic attack, the nurses sat with her to calm her breathing and did not leave her until she was calm. If another patient had needed the bathroom they would have had a judgement call to make....its not always that they are uncaring, sometimes they need to prioritise.

Yeah. This.

It's terrible, but not necessarily the staff themselves at fault. There should be more of them, but that's not on them.

[Ammi]

...misgendering ...(..in the context of this story and we can’t ever tell on the accuracy of media stories..)...is something which awareness should be being raised...it is something which is of extreme importance to the person going through their transformation...I do believe an apology was probably appropriate and that apology was made...and in giving that apology...?...it hasn’t stretched further the NHS service as it is at the moment...which is already very stretched with everyone or most people doing their very best...it isn’t a one thing or another situation for me though....an apology is completely in the control of a person/organisation to do...so when it’s required it should be done...other issues within the NHS and its struggles as mentioned in the thread are a lot more difficult to tackle...but yeah, I don’t see why one thing has any bearing on another....

[Cherie]

"I complained at first to the NHS PALS (Patient Advice and Liaison Service) and I received a comment back from the assistant head of nursing who said they apologised for saying 'Happy Christmas Sir'.
"But I appealed and made another complaint about that because they didn't speak to me or speak to my two witnesses."Now I have had a letter back from the deputy chief executive/chief nurse which basically says that the nurse involved has no recollection of making the comment - but again they never spoke to my two witnesses."


an apology had already been issued though, but this lady wanted to take further...I appreciate they might have been hurt, but I am not sure this warranted a meeting with everyone including witnesses, we all get hurt in life...we need to deal with it in an appropriate way

[Ammi]

...I guess there’s being hurt or upset in life and there’s making a stand for something you believe in, in life as well...and this was obviously something she felt she wanted or needed to pursue further ..which I also think is appropriate if that’s what she felt...for me I don’t feel that this in any way takes from other issues within the NHS...and it’s something that hopefully can be dealt with satisfactorily for everyone...some things sadly can’t be ‘fixed’....

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...misgendering ...(..in the context of this story and we can’t ever tell on the accuracy of media stories..)...is something which awareness should be being raised...it is something which is of extreme importance to the person going through their transformation...I do believe an apology was probably appropriate and that apology was made...and in giving that apology...?...it hasn’t stretched further the NHS service as it is at the moment...which is already very stretched with everyone or most people doing their very best...it isn’t a one thing or another situation for me though....an apology is completely in the control of a person/organisation to do...so when it’s required it should be done...other issues within the NHS and its struggles as mentioned in the thread are a lot more difficult to tackle...but yeah, I don’t see why one thing has any bearing on another....

NO Ammi, if they take the time to apologise to this lady then they won't have time to apologise to all the elderly people they're neglecting!! Come on a bit of common sense.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Cherie

"I complained at first to the NHS PALS (Patient Advice and Liaison Service) and I received a comment back from the assistant head of nursing who said they apologised for saying 'Happy Christmas Sir'.
"But I appealed and made another complaint about that because they didn't speak to me or speak to my two witnesses."Now I have had a letter back from the deputy chief executive/chief nurse which basically says that the nurse involved has no recollection of making the comment - but again they never spoke to my two witnesses."


an apology had already been issued though, but this lady wanted to take further...I appreciate they might have been hurt, but I am not sure this warranted a meeting with everyone including witnesses, we all get hurt in life...we need to deal with it in an appropriate way

To be fair, piecing it together, it sounds like the nurse may have been blatantly and openly transphobic and that was the complaint but when quizzed by her boss, she has (for obvious reasons) said that it was a mistake / misunderstanding and that she simply hadn't realised... and the apology will have been issued on those grounds. If the real issue was that she was CLEARLY aware that this individual was trans and was choosing to make comments such as pointedly calling her "SIR" and saying "urgh" / showing distaste... and other witnesses can attest to that... then I can understand why the reaction would be "Err this apology is BS and this is not what happened I want a real apology plz".

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

To be fair, piecing it together, it sounds like the nurse may have been blatantly and openly transphobic and that was the complaint but when quizzed by her boss, she has (for obvious reasons) said that it was a mistake / misunderstanding and that she simply hadn't realised... and the apology will have been issued on those grounds. If the real issue was that she was CLEARLY aware that this individual was trans and was choosing to make comments such as pointedly calling her "SIR" and saying "urgh" / showing distaste... and other witnesses can attest to that... then I can understand why the reaction would be "Err this apology is BS and this is not what happened I want a real apology plz".

...yeah it does seem the reason she was pursuing it further was because the apology didn’t feel to have any weight to her...in that none of the witnesses she had were being questioned but the staff member appeared to have been...and she was obviously going to be defensive and very biased in her ‘story’..so none of the apology having a fair understanding...one defence which had been used was that she had a beard at the time as well ..which was obviously not the case...interesting though that the nurse didn’t seem to recall Chantelle or anything about the meeting and yet she was the one being questioned in the hospital investigation...

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

To be fair, piecing it together, it sounds like the nurse may have been blatantly and openly transphobic and that was the complaint but when quizzed by her boss, she has (for obvious reasons) said that it was a mistake / misunderstanding and that she simply hadn't realised... and the apology will have been issued on those grounds. If the real issue was that she was CLEARLY aware that this individual was trans and was choosing to make comments such as pointedly calling her "SIR" and saying "urgh" / showing distaste... and other witnesses can attest to that... then I can understand why the reaction would be "Err this apology is BS and this is not what happened I want a real apology plz".

What is a real apology though? The time to have asked for an apology for there and then, if someone insults you in a hospital setting, do you go home and write to PALS, if it were me I would have asked to see the nurse in charge, in the presence of the witnesses, tbf any apology coming forth is going to be lip service either way if the nurse felt like that, I appreciate she might feel sorry she didn't do that at the time, but lesson learned.

[Ammi]

...I have to say I do think personally that she raised the issue in exactly the correct way..in that she didn’t at the time detract from any medical care, which was the thing of prime importance...then it would most definitely had been...’well what’s misgendering in terms of importance compared to potential required medical treatment’..you know...she had witnesses (...apparently according to the article..)...so with those witnesses prepared to speak as to the incident...(...but they were never called to speak..)...she officially wrote to the hospital administration because what had happened to her had breached their non discrimination policy...to me she did it all exactly right in raising the issue...

[Ammi]

...not in a hospital care setting where those requiring medical assistance are the only thing to immediately address...

[Elliot]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

To be fair, piecing it together, it sounds like the nurse may have been blatantly and openly transphobic and that was the complaint but when quizzed by her boss, she has (for obvious reasons) said that it was a mistake / misunderstanding and that she simply hadn't realised... and the apology will have been issued on those grounds. If the real issue was that she was CLEARLY aware that this individual was trans and was choosing to make comments such as pointedly calling her "SIR" and saying "urgh" / showing distaste... and other witnesses can attest to that... then I can understand why the reaction would be "Err this apology is BS and this is not what happened I want a real apology plz".

I mean that’s the thing tho. She could’ve been intentionally and maliciously misgendered and it would be pretty hard to prove. Fsr when it comes to this debate the ball seems to be in the park of the person misgendering, and without going around audio recording everything or without a witness, it can’t be proved otherwise. It’s kinda like that with everything but there seems to be a LOT more sympathy for other marginalised people. Trans ppl have to go out of their way to make themselves heard when it comes to stuff like this, and in a lot of places they’re not listened to, which is a shame.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I mean I agree to an extent but surely it should be that care, compassion and apology is forthcoming to ALL... nit that "if the most deserving don't get one then NO ONE gets one".

My late husband and his mates dressed up in women's clothes for a couple of drunken stag nights... you know what straight blokes are like, can't wait to get into a pair of tights and a sock-stuffed bra. How is anyone supposed to tell the difference between them, and a man who identifies as a woman but is still physically, a man. And really, is it worth a news story and a grovelling public apology?

No.