[arista]

Mid Devon
Conservative lose to NOC.

But West Devon
Conservative Hold.

[arista]

A 2nd Council has gone to a Independent Group
North Kesteven
was Conservative

https://election.news.sky.com/englan...kesteven-15921


Also
Brighton & Hove: No change - no overall control



Data:
Conservative - 1,132
Labour - 99
LibDem + 595

Data 5:30PM :BBC

[arista]

Amazing
From Ch4HD news
one zone up north the leavers voted Green
even though Green is a Remain.
So Labour lost,
the fella's all voted Green
even though they were Labour.


Also LibDem Now have 10 Councils , in all.

And
North Hertfordshire went from Conservative to No Overall Control



The long list of Council votes - better than the BBC
https://election.news.sky.com/englan...l-elections-26

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by arista

Amazing
From Ch4HD news
one zone up north the leavers voted Green
even though Green is a Remain.
So Labour lost,
the fella's all voted Green
even though they were Labour.


Also LibDem Now have 10 Councils , in all.

and this is why we need a second ref

[parmnion]

Originally Posted by Cherie

and this is why we need a second ref

As long as it's within a week of announcing it I'm all for that

[arista]

No the Conservative Leader
and Labour Leader
do want a 2nd vote.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by arista

No the Conservative Leader
and Labour Leader
do want a 2nd vote.

Let’s see if they are still of that mind next week

[joeysteele]

I float between having a new referendum and not.

My view is it's not wise.
The division, irritation and hostility from some more strong minded voters from the last one, could make a new one even more worrying than the last one.

However, I agree with Cherie, it is more likely now for a new vote.
The Lib Dems buoyed up by their success with the Greens too, in these elections will be pushing hard for one.

As arista says both main Party leaders are against one and neither will want to concede anything to the Lib Dens.

Why, pro a new vote and staying in the EU Parties have done so well is a puzzler to me.
I get voting UKIP and Independents as a protest.

However voting Lib Dem in such numbers is clouding the brexit issue further.

I fear the nsin Parties are in for greater challenges on this no matter what they do re brexit.

Two new leaders would help a bit probably, these 2 both look tired and incapable of uniting enough of the UK.

The European elections held under PR will give another uncertain picture.
A general election under first past the post, will have give it take a few seats, either Conservative or Labour as largest party.
On yesterday's results, a more likely Labour minority government supported by the SNP.

Who says politics is dull.
I don't think Change.UK will do that well but unless the main 2 parties get an act together.
Negative change for them is much more likely now across the board.

The hostilty on the doorsteps I found while canvassing these local elections was scary and unbelievable.
Never in elections have I come across it.

Although I did like the one who said to me, he started with a foul word then said, ''Labour sending schoolboys out now, ...... off''.
Clenching his fist.
However I am 27, so took it as a compliment.
Thanking.him for his time.

[bitontheslide]

i think labour and the tories will come to an agreement now and get brexit done. Neither want humiliation in the european elections and that will be a certainty if they go ahead

[arista]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

i think labour and the tories will come to an agreement now and get brexit done. Neither want humiliation in the european elections and that will be a certainty if they go ahead

Unless Labour stay still
to let the Conservatives get damaged , even more
helping Labour to get a Election.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by arista

Unless Labour stay still
to let the Conservatives get damaged , even more
helping Labour to get a Election.

I can see that from Corbyn.

In any election it's pretty clear no main Party can get an overall majority probably.

Whether Labour ended up just ahead of the Conservatives or just behind them in seats.
Apart from the DUP,.the anti Conservative vote in Parliament, would ensure a Labour led government.
Of course it will depend if the Brexit and Change.UK Parties can get any seats in Westminster too.

What happens then is anyone's guess.
I think your point to waiting for more chaos for the Conservatives is a valid one.
It suits Corbyn's agenda.

In hung Parliament territory again, he'd be more likely to get the support to govern.

[arista]

"In hung Parliament territory again, he'd be more likely to get the support to govern."


Or send us all again for a fast 2nd General Election

[Livia]

I worry about all the independents who are suddenly in council. I remember a few years ago there was a huge protest vote and loads of UKIP councillors were elected. None of them expected it, didn't really want to be in council, didn't go to meetings, didn't meet the Parish councils and in the end, stepped down causing a by election. The people who suffered were those they were meant to serve.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Livia

I worry about all the independents who are suddenly in council. I remember a few years ago there was a huge protest vote and loads of UKIP councillors were elected. None of them expected it, didn't really want to be in council, didn't go to meetings, didn't meet the Parish councils and in the end, stepped down causing a by election. The people who suffered were those they were meant to serve.

That's another strong point re the Independents.
As is your last sentence.

[Vicky.]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...I2Br3nRfj842mg

A ballot paper marked with the word “Brexit” and a large arrow across the page pointing to the Conservative candidate has been ruled to be a vote for a councillor who won by a majority of one.

Sorry but this is ****ing hilarious if true

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...I2Br3nRfj842mg



Sorry but this is ****ing hilarious if true

yes I believe it is

[joeysteele]

If anything other than a cross as a vote is on the ballot paper, it is a spolied ballot.

If that one has been counted and allowed it has to be surely wrong.
I've been at counts, anything with writing on the ballot paper is discarded.

[arista]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

If anything other than a cross as a vote is on the ballot paper, it is a spolied ballot.

If that one has been counted and allowed it has to be surely wrong.
I've been at counts, anything with writing on the ballot paper is discarded.

Yes its a error
those counting the forms get tired
and the checkers also get tired.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by arista

Yes its a error
those counting the forms get tired
and the checkers also get tired.

Crikey, tired counting local election ballot papers.
There's hardly that many votes to count.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

If anything other than a cross as a vote is on the ballot paper, it is a spolied ballot.

If that one has been counted and allowed it has to be surely wrong.
I've been at counts, anything with writing on the ballot paper is discarded.

But Joey, you know a half-decent agent will argue for every spoilt ballot paper. If I'd seen this one I would have argued for it for my candidate, and so would you probably! I remember having argued over a paper where the voter dad drawn a penis next to the Conservative candidate and nothing next to any of the others and I ended up having it counted. You have to be willing to argue and it depends on the returning officer... but when all the agents and reps gather round to inspect the spoilt papers, you can guarantee a couple will be argued for and added to the result.

[Underscore]

Originally Posted by Livia

I worry about all the independents who are suddenly in council. I remember a few years ago there was a huge protest vote and loads of UKIP councillors were elected. None of them expected it, didn't really want to be in council, didn't go to meetings, didn't meet the Parish councils and in the end, stepped down causing a by election. The people who suffered were those they were meant to serve.

In personal experience, Independents tend to perform better/as good as any other major party candidate. They tend to have the local people more at heart rather than those who are aligned to a party who sometimes think about their political careers.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Underscore

In personal experience, Independents tend to perform better/as good as any other major party candidate. They tend to have the local people more at heart rather than those who are aligned to a party who sometimes think about their political careers.

In my experience they are happy amateurs. Also the parties have a 'group' in council' where they plan work together. I don't at all find that they have the local people at heart more than the parties, because you have to either live in the ward you stand in, or have some other proper connection to the area, and party councillors tend to stand for the same ward election after election. I'm not sure anyone who stands as a councillor think of it as furthering a political career, not for around Ł4000 a year. Whether they belong to a party or not, people who stand for council tend to be focused and serious... it's just that those connected to a political party tend to stand long term and less likely to stand for just one term.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Livia

But Joey, you know a half-decent agent will argue for every spoilt ballot paper. If I'd seen this one I would have argued for it for my candidate, and so would you probably! I remember having argued over a paper where the voter dad drawn a penis next to the Conservative candidate and nothing next to any of the others and I ended up having it counted. You have to be willing to argue and it depends on the returning officer... but when all the agents and reps gather round to inspect the spoilt papers, you can guarantee a couple will be argued for and added to the result.

Hmm I don't know Livia.

I know when I've been at a count I've noticed votes that hadn't a cross.
Which were discounted.

There was a ballot paper too where a cross was more in the Conservative candidates box, with a smaller part of the cross in the box below him.
It was discounted.

As you point out it will depend on the returning officer.

Personally, I wouldn't accept a single ballot paper that had more than a cross on it.

It's simple enough to do, just put even the smallest or largest cross beside a candidates name.
Anything else should warrant it being a vote thrown out and wasted by the voter.

I agree though,if the returning officer included this one,.that's his or her right.
To me however and I think as to the rules of voting, it's wrong.

Even moreso in a tight contest as this one appears to have been.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Hmm I don't know Livia.

I know when I've been at a count I've noticed votes that hadn't a cross.
Which were discounted.

There was a ballot paper too where a cross was more in the Conservative candidates box, with a smaller part of the cross in the box below him.
It was discounted.

As you point out it will depend on the returning officer.

Personally, I wouldn't accept a single ballot paper that had more than a cross on it.

It's simple enough to do, just put even the smallest or largest cross beside a candidates name.
Anything else should warrant it being a vote thrown out and wasted by the voter.

I agree though,if the returning officer included this one,.that's his or her right.
To me however and I think as to the rules of voting, it's wrong.

Even moreso in a tight contest as this one appears to have been.

Well, that's more than one mark on the paper. The penis that was drawn on the paper I was talking about was a single mark, next to the Conservative candidate and I argued it was a clear vote, no other mark existed anywhere so the intention must have been there. You know what it's like when you're scrabbling around for every vote, and it's reeeeeally tight... you'll fight for every vote you can.

I have to say I've met returning officers I wouldn't have tried that on though.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Livia

Well, that's more than one mark on the paper. The penis that was drawn on the paper I was talking about was a single mark, next to the Conservative candidate and I argued it was a clear vote, no other mark existed anywhere so the intention must have been there. You know what it's like when you're scrabbling around for every vote, and it's reeeeeally tight... you'll fight for every vote you can.

I have to say I've met returning officers I wouldn't have tried that on though.

I love going to counts.

I doubt I'd argue with you if you were battling for a ballot paper to still stand.

Some people find being at a count tedious but I love it.