Notices

Serious Debates & News Debate and discussion about political, moral, philosophical, celebrity and news topics.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-08-2019, 03:32 PM   #1
LaLaLand
Senior Member
 
LaLaLand's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 15,133


Default The 50th Anniversary of "The Manson Murders"

Today, August 9th 2019 marks 50 years since the shocking Manson Family cult murders that took place over two nights in 1969 Los Angeles in crimes that shocked the world and "killed the Sixties".



Within 48 hours, seven people (including almost-9 month pregnant rising actress Sharon Tate) were massacred in the most brutal ways, shot, stabbed and mutilated repeatedly in two properties across the city by young "Hippy" followers of Charles Manson. Why? The hopes that it would fuel the already building racial tensions within America at the time and start a global race war called "Helter Skelter" that Manson had supposedly foreshadowed to them that he had got wind of from listening to The Beatles "White Album", a war that would pit black people vs. white people, ending with black people "winning the war" and taking over the world.

While all of this was happening, Manson and "his Family" would be hiding out in an underground city in the desert where they would not age (seriously) and when the dust had settled, would rise up back to Earth and take control over the black people because, in his words, black people are naturally submissive to whites, and thus Manson would be king of the world...

Many, however, believe that the reason Manson told his followers to commit the first set of murders (at Tate and husband Roman Polanski's home on Cielo Drive, was because the home was owned by music producer and son of Doris Day, Terry Melcher, who had declined to give Manson, who was an aspiring musician, a recording contract. The house symbolised everything that Manson was told he could not have, and was owned by the man who told him he couldn't have it.

A further two people, musician Gary Hinman and "Shorty" Shea, would later be revealed as victims of the Family also. With many others, even including a lawyer from Manson's trial who died in very mysterious circumstances, being suspected as more victims. It's unknown just how many people died at the hands of this cult.

Concise yet detailed coverage of Manson's life and how he got to become the maniacal cult leader we all know:

Youtube video
Click to view this video on Youtube


A really great article covering the whole thing: https://www.vox.com/2019/8/7/2069528...lter-explained

It's important to be reminded of these I feel, as sadly Manson has become some kind of weird icon of the 60's when in fact he's a total evil monster who orchestrated all of these killings through heavy drug use and manipulation of young, naive, runaway teenagers.

It's a crazy story involving the whole counterculture of the 1960's, sex, drugs, Hollywood's elite, the Hollywood class system and, strangely, The Beach Boys.

Is anyone here old enough to remember these happening?

Last edited by LaLaLand; 09-08-2019 at 03:41 PM.
LaLaLand is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2019, 04:21 PM   #2
Jordan.
literally a nightmare
 
Jordan.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 61,262


Default

I've only really dipped my toe in this whole case but it's seem so interesting, in the most morbid way

Last edited by Jordan.; 09-08-2019 at 08:40 PM.
Jordan. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2019, 04:22 PM   #3
LaLaLand
Senior Member
 
LaLaLand's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 15,133


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordan. View Post
I've only really dipped my toe in this whole care but it's seem so interesting, in the most morbid way
It is, morbidly fascinating.

Just the whole development of it, the people along the way that were involved (FAMOUS people) and stuff, it's absolutely crazy what went down. From the beginnings of "the cult" to the murders to the trial both in and out of the courthouse.

It's scary to think too that most of the people in the cult who were in the know with the murders but didn't "participate" (one man has been released and is a musician in a band now even though he killed a man and helped hide his body under Manson's orders) are now living out their later years freely in America, including one who was released recently for trying to assassinate President Ford in the 70's .

They're all still very much crazy and most still say they don't regret a thing.

Last edited by LaLaLand; 09-08-2019 at 04:26 PM.
LaLaLand is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2019, 04:49 PM   #4
bitontheslide
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 20,152

Favourites:
BB19: Sian


Default

it was a combination of the way things were at the time with the hippy movement together with powerful drugs and a persuasive nutter.

So many murders have happened in America in a similar vein ... a few cults, but most from crazy ****ers that had a bad upbringing
bitontheslide is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2019, 04:58 PM   #5
Marsh.
Observer
 
Marsh.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 71,519


Default

So black people go to war with white people and win. But black people are submissive to white people, so shouldn't be winning any war.

I prefer serial killers with more logic.
Marsh. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2019, 05:02 PM   #6
bitontheslide
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 20,152

Favourites:
BB19: Sian


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marsh. View Post
So black people go to war with white people and win. But black people are submissive to white people, so shouldn't be winning any war.

I prefer serial killers with more logic.
living underground because you don't age is perfectly logical
bitontheslide is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2019, 05:07 PM   #7
LaLaLand
Senior Member
 
LaLaLand's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 15,133


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marsh. View Post
So black people go to war with white people and win. But black people are submissive to white people, so shouldn't be winning any war.

I prefer serial killers with more logic.
LaLaLand is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2019, 05:14 PM   #8
LaLaLand
Senior Member
 
LaLaLand's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 15,133


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bitontheslide View Post
living underground because you don't age is perfectly logical


Or the fact that The Beatles are telling YOU specifically through their songs that an apocalyptic race war is coming and that you need to kick-start it by trying to pin murders on the Black Panthers.
LaLaLand is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2019, 06:05 PM   #9
Marsh.
Observer
 
Marsh.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 71,519


Default

Do we know why they picked Sharon Tate specifically?
Marsh. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2019, 06:49 PM   #10
LaLaLand
Senior Member
 
LaLaLand's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 15,133


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marsh. View Post
Do we know why they picked Sharon Tate specifically?
They didn't. They targeted the house.

Basically, that house was owned by Terry Melcher who was Doris Day's son and a successful record producer (behind The Byrds and The Beach Boys early success and many more acts of the 60's, basically pioneered the "California Sound"). Back in the day, record producers and musicians addresses were well known and it wasn't uncommon for people to just rock up and "audition" for these people in the hopes of them putting in a good word or even better getting signed to a record contract. Mama Cass and Frank Zappa to name just a couple would basically hold open mic nights/parties in their homes, this was the culture at the time. It's how the likes of Joni Mitchell and Crosby/Stills/Nash/Young got discovered.

Anyway, through Manson's brief but intense "friendship" with Dennis Wilson (Beach Boys drummer), he was put in touch with Melcher and Terry actually went up to the Spahn Ranch where The Family were living and had Manson "audition" there for him. Long story short, Melcher didn't sign him and Manson was fuming. Also, not long after, Manson gave his song "Cease to Exist" to Dennis Wilson basically and The Beach Boys recorded it on one of their albums with different lyrics/format, this also made Manson furious because he didn't understand that they could record/change/release it without his permission.

So basically on the night, he sent them "to that house Melcher lived in" as it was a symbol of Melcher and the music industry that had shunned him. Melcher and his girlfriend, actress Candice Bergen, had moved out some time prior and had rented it to Roman Polanski and Sharon. Manson knew that Melcher didn't live there anymore though as he'd been to the property a few times looking for him.

Last edited by LaLaLand; 09-08-2019 at 06:59 PM.
LaLaLand is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2019, 07:04 PM   #11
LaLaLand
Senior Member
 
LaLaLand's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 15,133


Default

As for the the murders of Mr & Mrs LaBianca the night after, that house was picked simply because Manson knew where it was as he'd been to parties at the house next door previously. There was no personal connection between Manson/The Family and that innocent couple.

This night was more to heighten the emphasis of it being racially motivated (they ramped up the writing in blood on the walls, "Death to Pigs", "Helter Skelter" and they also carved the word "WAR" into Mr LaBianca's stomach). Awful.

Unbelievably, the LAPD apparently did not think the two sets of killings were in any way related, despite the obvious similarities.

Last edited by LaLaLand; 09-08-2019 at 07:07 PM.
LaLaLand is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2019, 07:52 PM   #12
Vicky.
0_o
 
Vicky.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 62,929


Default

Another saying how..morbidly fascinating this whole thing is. I really do need to read up on it all properly (I do with so many serial killers and..disasters) because the story behind it all..its so weird. How on earth do you get so many people to actually go and murder strangers, just on your say so?! Mental.

Was he actually done for murder, if he didn't actually commit any?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissKittyFantastico View Post


I wasn't aware you could vote with your vagina. I'm so behind the times, I still use my phone
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marsh. View Post
It's Big Brother, not Brexit. Adjust your seriousness accordingly.
Quote:
In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way. If the Remain campaign win two-thirds to one-third that ends it.

Last edited by Vicky.; 09-08-2019 at 07:52 PM.
Vicky. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2019, 08:21 PM   #13
LaLaLand
Senior Member
 
LaLaLand's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 15,133


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicky. View Post
Another saying how..morbidly fascinating this whole thing is. I really do need to read up on it all properly (I do with so many serial killers and..disasters) because the story behind it all..its so weird. How on earth do you get so many people to actually go and murder strangers, just on your say so?! Mental.

Was he actually done for murder, if he didn't actually commit any?
It really is fascinating. Twisted, shocking and brutal yes, but fascinating all the same. I recommend the book “Helter Skelter”, it’s by Vincent Bugliosi who was the main attorney on the case. It has all of the ins and outs it’s incredible, from the cult to the crime scenes to the trial and interviews. It’s like an all-time bestseller.

According to Wiki:

Quote:
In 1971, he was convicted of first-degree murder and conspiracy to commit murder for the deaths of seven people. Although the prosecution conceded that Manson never literally ordered the murders, they contended that his ideology constituted an overt act of conspiracy.[4] Manson was also convicted of first-degree murder for the deaths of Gary Hinman and Donald Shea.
They would have been put to death if they’d done it any earlier but that was abolished in the early 70’s so what were originally death penalties were later changed to life in prison.

Last edited by LaLaLand; 09-08-2019 at 08:24 PM.
LaLaLand is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2019, 08:40 PM   #14
Jordan.
literally a nightmare
 
Jordan.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 61,262


Default

Youtube video
Click to view this video on Youtube


Jordan. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2019, 09:06 PM   #15
LaLaLand
Senior Member
 
LaLaLand's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 15,133


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordan. View Post
I know mate, give you the creeps! Hard to believe looking at them they're cold blooded killers.

Here's a HQ version of what they're singing, think it's from their album "The Family Jams" (recorded a year after the murders, so Manson and the killers aren't on it but the other nutters are in all their glory) This features in the new movie "Once Upon a Time in... Hollywood". Makes me feel funny, so eerie.

Youtube video
Click to view this video on Youtube

Last edited by LaLaLand; 09-08-2019 at 09:18 PM.
LaLaLand is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmark/share this topic

Tags
50th, anniversary, the manson murders

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 12:27 AM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
no new posts