[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

But surely schools in this country must explain that pretty early
And then every day life, the media
I know in this country teaching history becomes optional far too early but still
We are not talking of some distant shores ffs

FYI I missed a lot of school as I had bad health problems,but carry on being better educated and clever, we cant all be like that unfortunately,I have never been good at geography, history etc,I was more on the arty side,but as I said I wont comment on this subject anymore , I try to learn as I go along ,but , seems that its to be looked down on too.FFS

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Tbf to Kazanne, I recall Smithy doing much the same thing, there does seem to be a genuine lack of understanding about the Irish situation, I have had people ask me before the is it safe to travel to the Republic because of the bombs I don't believe Irish history makes it onto the curriculum here, but it should

Really? It's just kind of disappointing more than anything else, considering we're so close and it's both of our history and Geography and how do people even understand the whole border issue at all if they don't even know that Ireland is a separate country?

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Really? It's just kind of disappointing more than anything else, considering we're so close and it's both of our history and Geography and how do people even understand the whole border issue at all if they don't even know that Ireland is a separate country?

I don't remember either of my kids learning about Irish history but then neither took history for GCSE so maybe they study if it they take history as an option, not sure tbh

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Really? It's just kind of disappointing more than anything else, considering we're so close and it's both of our history and Geography and how do people even understand the whole border issue at all if they don't even know that Ireland is a separate country?

Pre referendum the Irish border was never mentioned at all, this is why I think there should be a second referendum, people are much more aware of a lot of the sticking points now, rather than the whitewash of its going to be easy to leave

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Tbf to Kazanne, I recall Smithy doing much the same thing, there does seem to be a genuine lack of understanding about the Irish situation, I have had people ask me before the is it safe to travel to the Republic because of the bombs I don't believe Irish history makes it onto the curriculum here, but it should

Theres no excuse imo if you show any interest in politics and have opinions on it not to know the basics.
These things are mentioned on the news a fair bit.

And theres no need to know Irish history to know the basic makeup of your own country

It's almost like thinking France is part of uk bc we own some channel islands

[Withano]

Leave winning and still having a following makes more sense to me now

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Pre referendum the Irish border was never mentioned at all, this is why I think there should be a second referendum, people are much more aware of a lot of the sticking points now, rather than the whitewash of its going to be easy to leave

Not true. What about the peace process, that's been on the news since the 90s

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

FYI I missed a lot of school as I had bad health problems,but carry on being better educated and clever, we cant all be like that unfortunately,I have never been good at geography, history etc,I was more on the arty side,but as I said I wont comment on this subject anymore , I try to learn as I go along ,but , seems that its to be looked down on too.FFS

It's not about looking down, it's the shock of it.
Just dont know how to deal with it tbh.
And you never realized from the news?

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

It's not about looking down, it's the shock of it.
Just dont know how to deal with it tbh.
And you never realized from the news?

I have a family and a job,i am not stuck in the news every 5 mins, and I sometimes have programs on but cant always pay that much attention,and sometimes I miss stuff as I am patially deaf,and why the **** am I explaining anything to you anyway, you know nothing about my background or education,if I have an interest in whats going on then why shouldn't I have an opinion and learn by some of them , but you are just nasty and I'm done even explaining anything to you.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

Not true. What about the peace process, that's been on the news since the 90s

I am talking about the Leave and Remain referendum campaigns, did either mention the border in their arguments for and against? If you can find me a link that would be great, there was a guy on a phone in recently who mentioned this as well so its just not me that didn't hear anything about it, I cant claim to have listened to every argument but I listen to a fair deal so if it was mentioned it wasn't particularly often

[bitontheslide]

Honestly, i don't think the irish border issues are a big thing to many on the UK mainland. It becomes an issue if some group like the ira start bombing us, but other than that it's jut not important to many. Why would it be unless it directly affected them. That was the whole reason the ira started bombing places like london in the first place.

[lime]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Pre referendum the Irish border was never mentioned at all, this is why I think there should be a second referendum, people are much more aware of a lot of the sticking points now, rather than the whitewash of its going to be easy to leave

But surely they who voted either to remain...or leave knew about the irish Border and Ireland as a whole.

After reading Kazanne post's
I hate the use of the word "troubles"

that's something I am in when i can't find my phone or car keys..Not a massacre

[lime]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

Honestly, i don't think the irish border issues are a big thing to many on the UK mainland. It becomes an issue if some group like the ira start bombing us, but other than that it's jut not important to many. Why would it be unless it directly affected them. That was the whole reason the ira started bombing places like london in the first place.

Brexit in a nutshell

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by lime

But surely they who voted either to remain...or leave knew about the irish Border and Ireland as a whole.

After reading Kazanne post's
I hate the use of the word "troubles"

that's something I am in when i can't find my phone or car keys..Not a massacre

It was never brought up by either campaign, the UK is made up of many nationalities who can vote, its not just British people who have the right to vote, I have Pakistani and Indian friends who voted who would have no idea of the past problems in NI, there has been peace for 20 years so why would they, some of them would have been in their early teens when the Good Friday Agreement was passed, none of the politicians mentioned in in either the leave or remain campaign, although I am waiting for Two Sugars to clarify this

I remember on the day before the ref an Indian friend saying all her family were voting to go out, because of the possible trade deal with India and visa free movement, everyone has their own reasons for voting the way they did, they are considering themselves and their families first and foremost

[lime]

Originally Posted by Cherie

It was never brought up by either campaign, the UK is made up of many nationalities who can vote, its not just British people who have the right to vote, I have Pakistani and Indian friends who voted who would have no idea of the past problems in NI, there has been peace for 20 years so why would they, some of them would have been in their early teens when the Good Friday Agreement was passed, none of the politicians mentioned in in either the leave or remain campaign, although I am waiting for Two Sugars to clarify this

I think that's Ireland's biggest mistake ..i think in Ireland we thought that the GFA was welcomed in UK as much as Ireland .

Now I think the Irish are seeing it is irrelavent to the British.

Hard lesson to learn.. but important

[Twosugars]

Cherie I'm not talking about the referendum and whether it was mentioned or not..

I'm talking about being aware what your country consist of.
I cant imagine not knowing who your neighbouring countries are.

I dont think anybody in the referendum campaign was explaining Britain doesnt own Ireland bc doubt anybody thought it needed explaining.

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

I have a family and a job,i am not stuck in the news every 5 mins, and I sometimes have programs on but cant always pay that much attention,and sometimes I miss stuff as I am patially deaf,and why the **** am I explaining anything to you anyway, you know nothing about my background or education,if I have an interest in whats going on then why shouldn't I have an opinion and learn by some of them , but you are just nasty and I'm done even explaining anything to you.

Whatever.

Carry on thinking I'm nasty.
I will consider it worth it as long as you now know that Britain owns only a small part of the island of Ireland, Northern Ireland. The rest of it is an independent republic of Ireland, a very proud and successful country.
They used to be under English occupation but gained independence in 1921.
For obvious historical reasons Ireland is very protective of and sensitive about its independence. It's best every Briton remembers that.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

But surely schools in this country must explain that pretty early

Heh... no. You get like Vikings and Romans, and other distant European history, then some kings / queens etc MAYBE up to the Victorian era but tbh more often stopping around Elizabeth 1 / Mary Queen of Scots / James.

Maybe a bit of WWII *if* you take history as a selection at high school - other than that, I don't think you even get the modern wars.

Definitely no modern political history unless you specifically take politics. Which in my experience, most schools don't even offer.

I don't think the political situation in Ireland was mentioned at all when I was at school, honestly. Here in Scotland I think people become a bit more socially aware of it because there's still quite heavy sectarianism that has significant links with N.I. so anyone vaguely "socially aware" learns about it that way.

[Twosugars]

Yeah my partner told me the same, TS

I dont get it. How can you pick and choose your history? It is a continuous thing

[Twosugars]

But geography and general knowledge? If you look at a map you can see ireland is there, an independent country

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

I have a family and a job,i am not stuck in the news every 5 mins, and I sometimes have programs on but cant always pay that much attention,and sometimes I miss stuff as I am patially deaf,and why the **** am I explaining anything to you anyway, you know nothing about my background or education,if I have an interest in whats going on then why shouldn't I have an opinion and learn by some of them , but you are just nasty and I'm done even explaining anything to you.

The issue is though, you've had some very strong views on the Brexit situation... so it's quite jarring to hear someone who has expressed strong views say something that indicates they have a complete misunderstanding of one of the most fundamental aspects of the Brexit debate. Like I said... it's not a judgment... there's no moral imperative to be actively engaged in politics... but I just have to reiterate that if you didn't even know that Ireland is not part of Britain, you literally can't have a valid opinion on the current Brexit situation. It *is* the current situation.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

Yeah my partner told me the same, TS

I dont get it. How can you pick and choose your history? It is a continuous thing

They just don't spend much time on it at all is the honest answer, unless you take it as an optional subject in your teens. Most time is taken up with English and Maths, then "oldschool" sciences (Physics/Chem/Bio) then these days, tech subjects. And physical education. Then probably practical subjects like woodworking, art, Home Ec... THEN you have things like history, geography and politics tacked on like an afterthought.

When people do have a more than absolutely basic understanding of these topics in the UK, it's generally because of self-driven interest.

[Nicky91]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

Whatever.

Carry on thinking I'm nasty.
I will consider it worth it as long as you now know that Britain owns only a small part of the island of Ireland, Northern Ireland. The rest of it is an independent republic of Ireland, a very proud and successful country.
They used to be under English occupation but gained independence in 1921.
For obvious historical reasons Ireland is very protective of and sensitive about its independence. It's best every Briton remembers that.

why not an idea to break up britain, but i guess england would hate that idea LOL

in various sports events they are already competing as independent countries anyway, like rugby, football, cricket

in junior eurovision contest (kids eurovision) Wales make their own language shine, and even scotland is interested to also join that next year with of course the scottish language


just a simple thought of course, a britain break up

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

They just don't spend much time on it at all is the honest answer, unless you take it as an optional subject in your teens. Most time is taken up with English and Maths, then "oldschool" sciences (Physics/Chem/Bio) then these days, tech subjects. And physical education. Then probably practical subjects like woodworking, art, Home Ec... THEN you have things like history, geography and politics tacked on like an afterthought.

When people do have a more than absolutely basic understanding of these topics in the UK, it's generally because of self-driven interest.

Idg this arrangement.
And then governments moan people have not enough of a sense of identity.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

Cherie I'm not talking about the referendum and whether it was mentioned or not..

I'm talking about being aware what your country consist of.
I cant imagine not knowing who your neighbouring countries are.

I dont think anybody in the referendum campaign was explaining Britain doesnt own Ireland bc doubt anybody thought it needed explaining.

and I am talking about the border, can you confirm that you heard it mentioned as part of any argument in the remain campaign? it was never mentioned