[Twosugars]

Talking of peoples awareness of basic geography and history is very much on topic here.
It may well have a bearing on how they voted and why.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by lime

That's the thing kazanne...You don't need to be a brainbox to understand we Irish.

Absouletley amazing to watch a Brexiteer in action.No comprehension about the Border and so true you can laugh all you want at what the border means

I have never said I was a Brexiteer though,people just presume, I just want something ,done,anything to stop this mess we are in at the moment,but, I said I wont comment anymore,so I will leave it at that, I will cope whether we leave or stay.

[lime]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

I have never said I was a Brexiteer though,people just presume, I just want something ,done,anything to stop this mess we are in at the moment,but, I said I wont comment anymore,so I will leave it at that, I will cope whether we leave or stay.

You will cope..true

Leave or stay means nothing to YOU

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by lime

You will cope..true

Leave or stay means nothing to YOU

We will have to cope wont we ? whatever we want it will not be up to us ,as proven.

[Twosugars]

British government has a legal obligation to safeguard GFA.

If we leave without a deal I'd expect the government will be taken to court for failing that obligation

[Kizzy]

Did anyone genuinely have faith that bojo and Co would safeguard anything especially the GFA?

Nah mate....

[arista]

[arista]

[Twosugars]

Germany has a strong socialist element to their capitalism, a regulated capitalism.
So mr prick should not talk bollox. The scandinavians are doing well and also have the same arrangement.
Our fat cats need putting on a diet.

[arista]

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

Talking of peoples awareness of basic geography and history is very much on topic here.
It may well have a bearing on how they voted and why.

and so is the fact that that problem with the Irish border was barely afforded a mention during the pre referendum campaign.

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by Cherie

and so is the fact that that problem with the Irish border was barely afforded a mention during the pre referendum campaign.

Let's face it, the whole of the campaign was at worst lies and at best crap, from both sides.
The country needed, alongside the campaign, public education programmes impartially informing of the facts of our membership and of not being a member.
The lies, as well as scaremongering, have been able to take root bc people are not adequately informed.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by MTVN

I heard it discussed leading up to the referendum but then I'm a massive nerd who never missed a Daily Politics episode

Obviously the Leave side didn't want to talk about it but some on the Remain side expressed their concerns

...I must be a nerd as well because I’m pretty sure that it was discussed...not just the complication of the Northern Ireland border, but that a leave vote would probably lead to a second Scottish Independence referendum as well... I recall a phrase that was used...(...although I don’t recall who said it...)...of the U.K. being ‘torn apart..’...by a Brexit majority vote if it were to happen...


...anyways, this is a take by Dara O’Briain, which is very interesting and gave me lots of thoughts...whereas other EU countries have embraced the union and the benefits of and the multi culture etc...in the U.K., many people have obviously seen it entirely differently...more as an imposition on them and on ‘their’ country...

Youtube video

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...I must be a nerd as well because I’m pretty sure that it was discussed...not just the complication of the Northern Ireland border, but that a leave vote would probably lead to a second Scottish Independence referendum as well... I recall a phrase that was used...(...although I don’t recall who said it...)...of the U.K. being ‘torn apart..’...by a Brexit majority vote if it were to happen...


...anyways, this is a take by Dara O’Briain, which is very interesting and gave me lots of thoughts...whereas other EU countries have embraced the union and the benefits of and the multi culture etc...in the U.K., many people have obviously seen it entirely differently...more as an imposition on them and on ‘their’ country...

Youtube video

You are pretty sure? so that would indicate that its wasn't widely discussed, someone somewhere mentioned it somewhere, but it didn't form part of anything that would stay in peoples consciousness, like the slogan on the bus or the picture of marching immigrants, such a huge issue should have had its own slogans and pictures so it left a lasting impression, not just a comment here and there on a political programme.

[Alf]

They thought they were gonna win, and didn't think they had to put the work in to do so. It was down to pure arrogance.

[Alf]

They still think they're gonna win, even after they've already lost.

[Ammi]

..no, I can only speak for myself as any of us can...what it indicates to me is that there are many things that I can’t have a precise memory of because of the course and journey of my own life...I do feel that people find their own ‘importance’ and obviously their own Brexit voting reasons...for me, the border has always been a huge focus and something I have knowledge about because of my heritage...for others without those connections...?...then I doubt any knowledge would have made a notable difference to a vote...

[Vicky.]

Well I definitely remember it being on that leaflet (mind quite sure, given the quality..it was a kind of 'independant' group sending them out rather than official). But even then, it was kind of in a passing 'nothing to worry about here' way, rather than any actual seriousness. Mind, same leaflet also said we would absolutely not have shortages of anything and...as usual..that reaching a deal would be so easy. I don't remember getting the remain one that that leave one was 'ripping apart' though, so I assume the remain one also mentioned Ireland..given the bullet points were 'refuting' all the stuff in the remain one. Or..more honestly, just yelling 'scaremongering!!!' at each point made, near all of which are coming up today, so yeah, sure it was just scare tactics

It was NOT discussed enough though, by any stretch.

And I agree with Alf that the remain side was arrogant as ****. More specifically, Cameron, with no plan for if it didnt go his way man..how ridiculous

I might have a look for all that later, fairly sure I 'put it away somewhere safe'..all the brexit campaign material we got. Only isue is, as usual, the safe place I put them in is so safe I have no ****ing clue where it is now

[Ammi]

...the thing that was ‘sold’ the most was immigration and that was also run with by the media...but I do recall also that if that was suggested as a Brexit voting reason..?...then there were many voices of..’we have done our research etc..’...and obviously that would have highlighted the borders plus a possible future exit from Scotland as well, as being huge factors to consider in this ‘forever’ vote....

[arista]

"It was NOT discussed enough though, by any stretch."


It was on TV News and Political programmes.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...the thing that was ‘sold’ the most was immigration and that was also run with by the media...but I do recall also that if that was suggested as a Brexit voting reason..?...then there were many voices of..’we have done our research etc..’...and obviously that would have highlighted the borders plus a possible future exit from Scotland as well, as being huge factors to consider in this ‘forever’ vote....

I remember a whole crapload of 'experts are all colluding in this to stop us leaving, they are all lying and/or have no clue what they are talking about, ignore them' stuff.

Didn't help that some of the stuff from the remain side was bollocks though, as it made it easier to point to the dodgy ones and make out all of it was lies. One I remember very cleary (again may have been on an independant one...) was that there would be no pensions for anyone from 2020 onwards, if we left. Which..is obvious bull. At some stage pensions will not be possible, I agree on that. But its not really going to be tied to brexit, and not that quickly either.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by arista

"It was NOT discussed enough though, by any stretch."


It was on TV News and Political programmes.

As much as 'rargh immigration' was? It was barely talked about on tv or in the media..and only seems to have really became a 'thing' after the vote!

[Ammi]

...but then everything has only become a thing after the vote...Obama tried to say that the U.K. would be last in the queue for a trade deal and outrage was screamed at him for ‘butting in’ and overstepping his knowledge...now the government are storing body bags in fear of trading costing lives...it’s all become ‘a thing’....

[MTVN]

Tbh if it was really amplified it would have just been seen as more 'Project Fear'. What would you put on the side of a bus anyway? 'It will be tricky to avoid a hard border in Northern Ireland without some form of regulatory divergence from the rest of the UK'. It's not gonna resonate. If you went nuclear and said 'Leave will lead to violence in Northern Ireland' it would be seen as irresponsible scaremongering

In the end I think Leave just had the emotional arguments and succeeded in connecting with people who don't normally care about politics while Remain tried to campaign on the same old battlegrounds of the economy which people were tired of hearing about

[Ammi]

...Leave also had the lies, it has to be said...they knew how to appeal to votes...(...even those who rarely voted...)...regardless of truth or lie...