Notices

Serious Debates & News Debate and discussion about political, moral, philosophical, celebrity and news topics.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 15-01-2020, 01:38 PM   #1
Twosugars
Stiff Member
 
Twosugars's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: London
Posts: 7,894
Default BAME offenders 'far more likely than others' to be jailed for drug offences

Black and minority ethnic offenders are far more likely to be sent to prison for drug offences than other defendants, according to groundbreaking research commissioned by the Sentencing Council.

The stark disparity in courtroom outcomes is exposed by the official body that advises judges as it prepares to update guidelines for dealing with drug offenders in England and Wales.

The investigation reinforces concerns raised by the review conducted by the Labour MP David Lammy on behalf of the Ministry of Justice in 2017 that found that BAME individuals face bias in court.

The Sentencing Council’s research concentrated on associations between an offender’s sex and ethnicity and the type and length of sentence they received in three supply-related drug crimes. It drew on statistics from crown court records between 2012 and 2015.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...search-reveals

Last edited by Twosugars; 15-01-2020 at 05:14 PM.
Twosugars is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-01-2020, 05:00 PM   #2
Kizzy
Cool mom
 
Kizzy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 38,214


Default

There are disparities between many groups men/ women, black/ white, privileged/ underprivileged, white collar/ blue collar the whole system is flawed.

Seeing examples like this exposes it, our justice system is better than some but needs improvement.
__________________
Kizzy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 15-01-2020, 05:15 PM   #3
Twosugars
Stiff Member
 
Twosugars's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: London
Posts: 7,894
Default

Bias in court.
Twosugars is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-01-2020, 05:34 PM   #4
Twosugars
Stiff Member
 
Twosugars's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: London
Posts: 7,894
Default

Where is Oliver to argue we are all equal?
Twosugars is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-01-2020, 05:40 PM   #5
Shaun
#Annabelindabee2020
 
Shaun's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 103,560
Blog Entries: 17

Favourites (more):
IAC2019: Ian Wright
X Factor Celebrity: V5
Strictly 2019: Dev Griffin
BB19: Kay


Default

Water is wet
__________________


Season 11 Faves: Nina, A'Keria, Shuga & Mercedes
DRUK Faves: The Vivienne, Divina, Baga, Blu, Vinegar & Sum Ting Wong (but basically all of them???)
Bake-Off Faves: axe this series
Strictly Faves: Michelle, Anneka, Mike, Dev & Kelvin

Spoiler:

Quote:
Originally Posted by T* View Post
Christopher Maloney is the new judge of the voice 2019! my cat is the producer
Quote:
Originally Posted by MB. View Post
Him to throw up every time he spins round?
Shaun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-01-2020, 06:24 PM   #6
Oliver_W
NCC-1701
 
Oliver_W's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Bill's Secret Garden
Posts: 7,036

Favourites (more):
Apprentice 2019: Lottie
BB19: Cameron
CBB22: Kirstie Alley
CBB21: Ann Widdecombe
Default

Is this a similar thing to the "wage gap" where different positions and hours worked different specific drug crimes result in different pay sentencing? The article didn't say the same drug crimes resulted in different sentences.

Smoking weed while walking down the street is a drug crime, as is pushing class A drugs onto kids. Both drug crimes, both deserve different responses.
__________________
Oliver_W is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-01-2020, 06:26 PM   #7
Marsh.
Observer
 
Marsh.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 73,781


Default

And you're saying all white drug offences are guilty of smoking weed and the BAME ones are pushing A class drugs onto kids.

Yeah, definitely not racist.
Marsh. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-01-2020, 06:35 PM   #8
Oliver_W
NCC-1701
 
Oliver_W's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Bill's Secret Garden
Posts: 7,036

Favourites (more):
Apprentice 2019: Lottie
BB19: Cameron
CBB22: Kirstie Alley
CBB21: Ann Widdecombe
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marsh. View Post
And you're saying all white drug offences are guilty of smoking weed and the BAME ones are pushing A class drugs onto kids.

Yeah, definitely not racist.
Not at all people of all races do both things, but they don't all get caught.
__________________
Oliver_W is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-01-2020, 06:36 PM   #9
Marsh.
Observer
 
Marsh.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 73,781


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver_W View Post
Not at all people of all races do both things, but they don't all get caught.
And women don't work as many hours as men.
Marsh. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-01-2020, 06:42 PM   #10
Oliver_W
NCC-1701
 
Oliver_W's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Bill's Secret Garden
Posts: 7,036

Favourites (more):
Apprentice 2019: Lottie
BB19: Cameron
CBB22: Kirstie Alley
CBB21: Ann Widdecombe
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marsh. View Post
And women don't work as many hours as men.
They statistically don't.

https://iwpr.org/publications/gender...uture-of-work/
__________________
Oliver_W is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-01-2020, 06:54 PM   #11
parmnion
Senior Member
 
parmnion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: ESSEX via scotland
Posts: 26,786

Favourites:
BB18: Deborah
CBB18: Heavy D
BB17: Hughie
BB4: Cameron


Default

A lot of sentencing is judged upon ones personal circumstances..like jobs, home life etc..most of these kids being sentenced would have had a social visit...so perhaps that's where the blame lies...social sevices.
__________________
........ a wavey sig.
parmnion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-01-2020, 07:06 PM   #12
Marsh.
Observer
 
Marsh.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 73,781


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver_W View Post
I didn't really ask you to justify why men and women doing the SAME job should be paid differently but I know you like to be different.
Marsh. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-01-2020, 07:10 PM   #13
Swan
Senior Member
 
Swan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: London
Posts: 524

Favourites (more):
BB19: Sian
CBB22: Kirstie Alley
CBB19: Kim Woodburn
BB17: Jason
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marsh. View Post
I didn't really ask you to justify why men and women doing the SAME job should be paid differently but I know you like to be different.
No you didn't, you said 'and women don't work as many hours as men' (which statistically they don't). Nothing to do with the SAME job argument. Doing the same job, and the same hours is different to not working as many hours. But well played on trying to divert the argument.
Swan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-01-2020, 07:15 PM   #14
Marsh.
Observer
 
Marsh.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 73,781


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swan View Post
No you didn't, you said 'and women don't work as many hours as men' (which statistically they don't). Nothing to do with the SAME job argument. Doing the same job, and the same hours is different to not working as many hours. But well played on trying to divert the argument.
HE brought up differing hours/jobs despite the wage gap being about men and women doing the SAME job.

Not the topic of the thread but he brought up one inequality to justify another.

Please read the thread if you're going to join a discussion.
Marsh. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-01-2020, 07:16 PM   #15
Swan
Senior Member
 
Swan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: London
Posts: 524

Favourites (more):
BB19: Sian
CBB22: Kirstie Alley
CBB19: Kim Woodburn
BB17: Jason
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marsh. View Post
HE brought up differing hours/jobs despite the wage gap being about men and women doing the SAME job.

Not the topic of the thread but he brought up one inequality to justify another.

Please read the thread if you're going to join a discussion.
Ok Marsh.
Swan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-01-2020, 07:18 PM   #16
Oliver_W
NCC-1701
 
Oliver_W's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Bill's Secret Garden
Posts: 7,036

Favourites (more):
Apprentice 2019: Lottie
BB19: Cameron
CBB22: Kirstie Alley
CBB21: Ann Widdecombe
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marsh. View Post
HE brought up differing hours/jobs despite the wage gap being about men and women doing the SAME job.
Which doesn't happen, if they work the same jobs and the same hours.
__________________
Oliver_W is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-01-2020, 07:21 PM   #17
Marsh.
Observer
 
Marsh.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 73,781


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swan View Post
Ok Marsh.
You're very welcome, Swan.
Marsh. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-01-2020, 07:21 PM   #18
Marsh.
Observer
 
Marsh.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 73,781


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver_W View Post
Which doesn't happen, if they work the same jobs and the same hours.
Of course it doesn't Oliver.
Marsh. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-01-2020, 07:26 PM   #19
Oliver_W
NCC-1701
 
Oliver_W's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Bill's Secret Garden
Posts: 7,036

Favourites (more):
Apprentice 2019: Lottie
BB19: Cameron
CBB22: Kirstie Alley
CBB21: Ann Widdecombe
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marsh. View Post
Of course it doesn't Oliver.
It literally doesn't, this BBC source goes into more detail

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-37198653

The tl;dr is that the difference in pay is caused by different jobs and working hours, and that they pay disappears for women if you don't count part time workers.
__________________
Oliver_W is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-01-2020, 07:31 PM   #20
Oliver_W
NCC-1701
 
Oliver_W's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Bill's Secret Garden
Posts: 7,036

Favourites (more):
Apprentice 2019: Lottie
BB19: Cameron
CBB22: Kirstie Alley
CBB21: Ann Widdecombe
Default

As for the apparent disparity in sentencing, I think juries should be better allocated. I don't necessarily mean black defendents should have an all black jury, but they certainly shouldn't have an all white one.
__________________
Oliver_W is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-01-2020, 07:40 PM   #21
Marsh.
Observer
 
Marsh.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 73,781


Default

"It's not just about discrimination"

Oliver: Discrimination doesn't exist, guys!
Marsh. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-01-2020, 07:47 PM   #22
Oliver_W
NCC-1701
 
Oliver_W's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Bill's Secret Garden
Posts: 7,036

Favourites (more):
Apprentice 2019: Lottie
BB19: Cameron
CBB22: Kirstie Alley
CBB21: Ann Widdecombe
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marsh. View Post
"It's not just about discrimination"

Oliver: Discrimination doesn't exist, guys!
I've never said discrimination doesn't exist but unless there's some evidence out there, we can safely assume equal work=equal pay
__________________
Oliver_W is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-01-2020, 07:51 PM   #23
Elliot
Senior Member
 
Elliot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 7,253

Favourites (more):
Love Island 5: Amber
IAC2018: Fleur East
BB18: Isabelle
CBB17: Gemma Collins
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver_W View Post
I've never said discrimination doesn't exist but unless there's some evidence out there, we can safely assume equal work=equal pay
Idts, people usually refer to the ‘raw’ gender pay gap that just takes a median of all the salary of men and women in the workplace, when you take out the factors that people usually bring up when ‘debunking it’ there’s still a gap. I’ve seen most people attribute it to women in general being given less raises and promotions.

Last edited by Elliot; 15-01-2020 at 07:51 PM.
Elliot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-01-2020, 08:00 PM   #24
Marsh.
Observer
 
Marsh.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 73,781


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver_W View Post
I've never said discrimination doesn't exist but unless there's some evidence out there, we can safely assume equal work=equal pay
Yes, you did. You just said there is no discrimination contributing to the pay gap.

So, no you can't safely assume it's equal because it's not.
Marsh. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-01-2020, 08:00 PM   #25
Oliver_W
NCC-1701
 
Oliver_W's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Bill's Secret Garden
Posts: 7,036

Favourites (more):
Apprentice 2019: Lottie
BB19: Cameron
CBB22: Kirstie Alley
CBB21: Ann Widdecombe
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elliot View Post
Idts, people usually refer to the ‘raw’ gender pay gap that just takes a median of all the salary of men and women in the workplace, when you take out the factors that people usually bring up when ‘debunking it’ there’s still a gap. I’ve seen most people attribute it to women in general being given less raises and promotions.
True, there's probably more of a "promotions gap" than "pay gap"
__________________
Oliver_W is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmark/share this topic

Tags
bame, drug, jailed, offences, offenders

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 08:12 AM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
no new posts