[Toy Soldier]

I'm going to leave this where it is for now, the topic clearly makes me genuinely angry and I will end up saying things that ... haven't been well thought through ... and also I think my feelings on this are pretty clear at this point, and not going to change, so any further response I give will only be repeating what's already been said. If it was ignored and misrepresented on the first round it's not likely to be taken on board on a do-over is it.

[bitontheslide]

it is the payment processors that are forcing this change on them, so i don't think other sites will have much success with it either unless they go to crypto currency and that just doesnt have the take up to make it viable

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

thousands of adult men and women who make a living on OnlyFans to essentially have their income at risk, and it doesn't make it right to judge them for their own choices either.

We rarely agree but we are on the same page with this topic
People may not agree with it but it’s not their choice to make

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

We rarely agree but we are on the same page with this topic
People may not agree with it but it’s not their choice to make

Hmm but suggesting that criticising something and pointing out the ways in which it is harmful (whether that be to the individual or in a broader sense), or arguing that it's a good thing for it not to be facilitatied, is equivalent to trying to make people's choices for them. It's a non sequitur; I can't decide whether that's down to a misunderstanding of the logic or just deliberate strawmanning.

"If you criticise someone's choices you are trying to control them" is simply a false statement, usually one trotted out by people who don't like being criticised.

Likewise, "It's not their choice to make" does not preclude criticism and there's no reason that it should.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

it is the payment processors that are forcing this change on them, so i don't think other sites will have much success with it either unless they go to crypto currency and that just doesnt have the take up to make it viable

Crypto would be a suitably seedy payment method I suppose.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Sex work is work no matter how hard you clutch your pearls.

Nah.

Try telling that to women who're forced into sex work and basically enslaved by their pimps and abused by their Johns. They'll tell you how legitimate and "empowering" it is.

And when it comes to people sitting around taking explicit photos of themselves ... That's pushing the definition of "sex", and absolutely obliterating the definition of "work"

Sex work is something that is becoming normalised whether we like it or not

It's not something that should be enabled.

I'm sure we can all think of stupid decisions we've regretted from before we were 25ish, and now the door has been opened so that these decisions can easily include "degrading oneself for a money" or "allowing oneself to be treated like a commodity".

[Shaun]

You started off with this broad claim that the entire website is a toxic culture and mental health catastrophe - a predatory scam aimed at underage girls - and then got annoyed when people suggested that other people (adult men, adult women, sex workers, models, minorities who can't get much work in serious modeling fields because of predatory behaviour / attitudes towards trans people in those fields, people who are just... sexually liberal) use the platform, doubled down on the rhetoric that the website is luring in underage girls, and then decided you're annoyed because you're not being listened to?

Like... you just tarred everyone who's made money off of this, or donated to someone who uses it, with "they must have terrible mental health" and are now playing the victim and whining about the topic making you angry? lmao

I'm sure there are many creators on the platform who are in a position of low self-esteem, have intimacy issues, have maybe been abused, etc, but if they're of legal age I don't really understand a frame of mind where we have to completely outlaw them being unable to make money from some videos of themselves. I'm sure there are many users on here who would look down on such people as lazy, or slutty, or cheap, but... I'm sure there's people who look down on you for their own reasons too.

But no... carry on and just let them be prostitutes instead. That's much safer x

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Shaun

You started off with this broad claim that the entire website is a toxic culture and mental health catastrophe

The specific website? No. Young people getting the impression that home made porn/objectification and commidification is a good thing or a viable or healthy career choice no matter what site it's on or how it's sold? Absolutely yes.

a predatory scam aimed at underage girls

Didn't say that. Quote where I said the site actively targets anyone at all, or is a scam?

and then got annoyed when people suggested that other people (adult men, adult women, sex workers, models, minorities who can't get much work in serious modeling fields because of predatory behaviour / attitudes towards trans people in those fields, people who are just... sexually liberal) use the platform

I didn't get annoyed - I got annoyed that people apparently want to use that as justification to disregard the harm that it does to (mostly) young (mostly) women. Ignoring that young women make up the bulk of the platform and it's profitability is a bit annoying yes. Is it a comfortable lie you tell yourself? Or are you, in fact, perfectly aware that young women selling to men makes up 90%+ of the platform. Is that just... acceptable collateral for the groups you've mentioned, perhaps?

doubled down on the rhetoric that the website is luring in underage girls

It is. Though I was clear (multiple times) that they're 18 when they actually start on OnlyFans.

and then decided you're annoyed because you're not being listened to?

No I decided I was annoyed about being ignored and misrepresented, not because I'm "not being listened to" (suggesting I'm annoyed about not being agreed with?). But I'll give the benefit of the doubt; maybe it's a simple failure of comprehension rather than an agenda-driven strawman tactic.

Like... you just tarred everyone who's made money off of this, or donated to someone who uses it, with "they must have terrible mental health"

Tarred them as what? Quotes? Said they must have terrible mental health? Quote? You're making stuff up, again, which is what I found annoying. I said it leads to some pretty poor mental health outcomes, NOT that the people already have mental health problems when they get into it. Again, a misrepresentation OR simply not bothering to actually read and comprehend what was said? I don't know; but it's boring and irritating either way and that's why I'm annoyed.

"Donated to" --- you mean bought from but it's quite telling that you felt the need to phrase it this way. More palateable.

I'm sure there are many creators on the platform who are in a position of low self-esteem, have intimacy issues, have maybe been abused, etc, but if they're of legal age I don't really understand a frame of mind where we have to completely outlaw them being unable to make money from some videos of themselves. I'm sure there are many users on here who would look down on such people as lazy, or slutty, or cheap, but...

Again, none of this has anything to do with my issue with the platform, an issue that you've aptly demonstrated that you either don't understand or have no interest in understanding.

I'm sure there's people who look down on you for their own reasons too.

sh-sh-shurely not Shaun? ffs

But no... carry on and just let them be prostitutes instead. That's much safer x

The girls who get into it as easy, quick money in their late teens are at little to zero risk of turning to other forms of prostitution. Because other forms of prostitution are not normalised as legitimate career choices for people in normal circumstances which is literally what my entire argument has been about.

[Nicky91]

crisp eating trailer trash are the only ones who use OnlyFans, so get rid

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Nicky91

crisp eating trailer trash

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Hmm but suggesting that criticising something and pointing out the ways in which it is harmful (whether that be to the individual or in a broader sense), or arguing that it's a good thing for it not to be facilitatied, is equivalent to trying to make people's choices for them. It's a non sequitur; I can't decide whether that's down to a misunderstanding of the logic or just deliberate strawmanning.

"If you criticise someone's choices you are trying to control them" is simply a false statement, usually one trotted out by people who don't like being criticised.

Likewise, "It's not their choice to make" does not preclude criticism and there's no reason that it should.

You are getting wound up over something that is not within your control
Someone can send a pick for free or charge what someone is willing to pay

If someone is will to spend their money on seeing someone naked that’s their choice and it doesn’t make them the devil.

[Calderyon]

Originally Posted by Nicky91

crisp eating trailer trash are the only ones who use OnlyFans, so get rid

What does crisp eating have to do with anything?

[bitontheslide]

Originally Posted by Calderyon

What does crisp eating have to do with anything?

crisp eating is the ideal accompaniment to having a fiddle

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

You are getting wound up over something that is not within your control

I won't disagree that it's a waste of time but I'm sure we've had this discussion before (although this thread isn't actually in debates); having a strong opinion on something and sharing it doesn't always have to be about thinking you can actually change it.

If someone is will to spend their money on seeing someone naked that’s their choice and it doesn’t make them the devil.

It makes them 1) comfortable in treating a woman's body as an object they can pay for and 2) pathetic... so I'm quite comfortable in making that "judgment" I'm afraid. I don't think any are "the devil" I think many of them are probably just a bit lonely and sad. And others just want to leer at young women like pieces of meat. I have much more judgement for the latter than the former, to be fair.

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I won't disagree that it's a waste of time but I'm sure we've had this discussion before (although this thread isn't actually in debates); having a strong opinion on something and sharing it doesn't always have to be about thinking you can actually change it.



It makes them 1) comfortable in treating a woman's body as an object they can pay for and 2) pathetic... so I'm quite comfortable in making that "judgment" I'm afraid. I don't think any are "the devil" I think many of them are probably just a bit lonely and sad. And others just want to leer at young women like pieces of meat. I have much more judgement for the latter than the former, to be fair.

You have a very simplistic view of what you consider to be right or wrong.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

You have a very simplistic view of what you consider to be right or wrong.

In general, no, far from it. On this subject yes I am very clear on my stance.

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

In general, no, far from it. On this subject yes I am very clear on my stance.

Have you ever had a lap dance paid or unpaid?

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

Have you ever had a lap dance paid or unpaid?

Unpaid yes, paid no. Believe it or not I’ve never paid a woman for any form of attention, sexual or otherwise. Shocking eh? Almost as though… they are people… and not a tin of beans

[Toy Soldier]

Wait, that makes it sound like I do sex stuff with beans doesn’t it.

[parmnion]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

crisp eating is the ideal accompaniment to having a fiddle

I once went to the doctors with an orange cock.

He said, what's your hobbies.

I said, watching porn and eating wotzits.

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Unpaid yes, paid no. Believe it or not I’ve never paid a woman for any form of attention, sexual or otherwise. Shocking eh? Almost as though… they are people… and not a tin of beans

Have you ever bought a top shelf magazine or looked at a free one?

[thesheriff443]

And what was you doing while having a lapdance was you looking up at the ceiling

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

Have you ever bought a top shelf magazine or looked at a free one?

I watched free orb until about 5 years ago and thought nothing of it, because I wasn’t aware of the issues and hadn’t given it much thought. I don’t buy or watch porn of any kind now.

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

And what was you doing while having a lapdance was you looking up at the ceiling

?

The issue is BUYING sex Sheriff, not engaging in sexual activity! Getting a free lapdance from a girlfriend isn’t visiting a stripper .

If you had asked, “Have I ever gotten a lapdance from a stripper or visited a strip club” - the answer is no.

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I watched free orb until about 5 years ago and thought nothing of it, because I wasn’t aware of the issues and hadn’t given it much thought. I don’t buy or watch porn of any kind now.




?

The issue is BUYING sex Sheriff, not engaging in sexual activity! Getting a free lapdance from a girlfriend isn’t visiting a stripper .

If you had asked, “Have I ever gotten a lapdance from a stripper or visited a strip club” - the answer is no.

A woman can send a pic for free and that’s ok but if a guy buys a pic it’s not

Something for you to consider women of all ages want and enjoy sex and enjoy a bit of diy.

If it’s between consenting adult regardless weather its for free or being paid for I don’t see an issue

[Ashley.]

Sites like OnlyFans can be empowering in the sense that it gives women control over how they are being perceived rather than otherwise being subjected to abuse that they did not consent to. And to be honest, I see what some people are saying - if sites like these can help to keep sex workers off the streets, in extremely unsafe conditions - then there's no doubt that transitioning to online work is a step up. But yes, these sites can conversely be damaging for younger women specifically and worrying hosts of illegal, predatory behaviour. That goes without saying.