[Niamh.]

Campaigners say online companies must stop doing business with ‘disgusting’ hate groups.


There has been a six-fold rise in UK web traffic to websites promoting “incel” culture, new analysis has found.

The Centre for Countering Digital Hate found that UK web traffic data to three of the largest “incel” sites has grown from 114,420 monthly visits to 638,505, over the period of March to November 2021.

The Times reported that users on the sites referred to Plymouth mass shooter Jake Davison as a hero and called for “all women to be raped at least once”.

Davison, 22, killed his mother, Maxine Davison, 51, after a row and then shot dead four others in a 12-minute attack.

His social media usage suggested an obsession with “incel”, involuntary celibate, culture, which promotes the idea that society is defined by physical appearance.

In December 2021, the Law Commission recommended that existing hate crime legislation should be extended to cover hatred on grounds of sex or gender where “stirring up”, or incitement, is involved.

“What we are referring to is threatening or abusive material which incites and glorifies violence, including sexual violence, against women and girls, and praises men who murder women,” the Law Commission said.

Imran Ahmed, chief executive of the CCDH, told The Times: “Make no mistake, incel communities are bound together by an ideology which preaches hatred of women, and has inspired deadly real-world attacks.

“The web-hosting services and other companies who are enabling incels need to stop doing business with disgusting hate groups — or regulators, law enforcement and legislators must and will step in to protect the public.”

In December 2021, a parliamentary report recommended that the Government’s draft Online Safety Bill be strengthened, with paid-for advertising, cyberflashing, content promoting self-harm and deliberately sending flashing images to people with photosensitive epilepsy added to the scope of the Bill.

It also said the proposed regulator, Ofcom, should be given more powers to audit and fine companies in breach mandatory codes of practice that should be introduced, with named senior managers as “safety controllers”, who could be found liable if their company failed to protect users.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/c...m-b974711.html

[Cherie]

As if it weren't bad enough for women out there

[Toy Soldier]

It's TikTok.

I'm not joking; it's the TikTok algorithm... it's a social disaster/minefield.

Basically TikTok has very sophisticated algorithms that detect if you linger for even a second on a certain type of video, and then it serves you more and more of that content. And because TikTok is based around going viral... people assume that if they're seeing a lot of the same rhetoric on there, "that's what everyone thinks/feels".

I am obviously very critical or "MRA" rhetoric (a very close cousin of incel). Because I'm critical of it, I had a tendency to linger on/watch those videos to see what nonense "MRA guru" type people were spouting... within a week I was getting MRA/incel videos more frequently... within two weeks I was getting very little BUT those sorts of videos.

Imagine that's a teenager. Suddenly being served a load of absolute horse**** but from people who are well-practiced and sound like they know what they're talking about. Who use arguments and point to psychology concepts that seem hard to argue with unless you know what you're seeing. Who think it's a huge issue and what everyone is thinking about becuase it's constantly on their feed - not realising that if you make a conscious effort to skip those videos as soon as they start,TikTok gets the message and within another two weeks you're back to seeing silly slapstick and videos of cats speaking.

I genuinely think young minds are being flooded with this **** at the moment, almost entirely thanks to TikTok. YouTube does very similar to be honest... you watch one MRA video, your home page is going to suggest 5 more. But the effect isn't quite as concentrated.

[LeatherTrumpet]

You only have to look at one woman squatting in the gym with a very tight pair of leggings on Tiktok and you are watching them for literally for the next month solid

I heard on Talkradio

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

You only have to look at one woman squatting in the gym with a very tight pair of leggings on Tiktok and you are watching them for literally for the next month solid

I heard on Talkradio

I had a bizarre few weeks after watching a load of videos of that guy with tourettes.

Turns out there are a LOT of people with tourettes (some real, some clearly faked) on TikTok and boy was it determined to show me every single one of them.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I had a bizarre few weeks after watching a load of videos of that guy with tourettes.

Turns out there are a LOT of people with tourettes (some real, some clearly faked) on TikTok and boy was it determined to show me every single one of them.

I read something about that actually, that it's started some sort of Social epidemic of people thinking they have tourettes

I don't use TikTok at all, obviously watched TikTok Videos but i don't have or want the app

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

It's TikTok.

I'm not joking; it's the TikTok algorithm... it's a social disaster/minefield.

Basically TikTok has very sophisticated algorithms that detect if you linger for even a second on a certain type of video, and then it serves you more and more of that content. And because TikTok is based around going viral... people assume that if they're seeing a lot of the same rhetoric on there, "that's what everyone thinks/feels".

I am obviously very critical or "MRA" rhetoric (a very close cousin of incel). Because I'm critical of it, I had a tendency to linger on/watch those videos to see what nonense "MRA guru" type people were spouting... within a week I was getting MRA/incel videos more frequently... within two weeks I was getting very little BUT those sorts of videos.

Imagine that's a teenager. Suddenly being served a load of absolute horse**** but from people who are well-practiced and sound like they know what they're talking about. Who use arguments and point to psychology concepts that seem hard to argue with unless you know what you're seeing. Who think it's a huge issue and what everyone is thinking about becuase it's constantly on their feed - not realising that if you make a conscious effort to skip those videos as soon as they start,TikTok gets the message and within another two weeks you're back to seeing silly slapstick and videos of cats speaking.

I genuinely think young minds are being flooded with this **** at the moment, almost entirely thanks to TikTok. YouTube does very similar to be honest... you watch one MRA video, your home page is going to suggest 5 more. But the effect isn't quite as concentrated.

Bloody algorithms.
My lil brother and I share a YouTube account (he borrowed it when he wasn't able to get one, neither of us bothered to make a separate one) and he floods my recs with "Angry Reviewers" and gamers, when I only really use it for music and old sitcoms. But because he uses it more, and I guess that stuff is more "algo friendly" I never really see my stuff in the suggestions
But I guess it's good I know he's not watching anything dangerous

But yeah, social media is responsible for a lot of toxic behaviour on all "sides". The world would be a better place without it.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

I heard on Talkradio

Uh-huh. And I just buy it for the articles.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I read something about that actually, that it's started some sort of Social epidemic of people thinking they have tourettes

I don't use TikTok at all, obviously watched TikTok Videos but i don't have or want the app

It's like a vicious circle really because genuine tourettes "ticks" CAN actually be set off by other people's ticks... and faking tourettes can lead to genuine loss of impulse control. People can give themselves "phantom tourettes" basically and then have to make a genuine effort to train themselves to stop... so people in that situation start to think they genuinely have the real neurological disorder.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

Bloody algorithms.
My lil brother and I share a YouTube account (he borrowed it when he wasn't able to get one, neither of us bothered to make a separate one) and he floods my recs with "Angry Reviewers" and gamers, when I only really use it for music and old sitcoms. But because he uses it more, and I guess that stuff is more "algo friendly" I never really see my stuff in the suggestions
But I guess it's good I know he's not watching anything dangerous

But yeah, social media is responsible for a lot of toxic behaviour on all "sides". The world would be a better place without it.

I've been using my youngest daughter's YouTube account on the big telly for a month because she got a 3 month free trial of Premium (ad-free). Ad-free is great but the home page contains ONLY videos of people playing "Roblox". Literally nothing else.

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

Uh-huh. And I just buy it for the articles.

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

It's TikTok.

I'm not joking; it's the TikTok algorithm... it's a social disaster/minefield.

Basically TikTok has very sophisticated algorithms that detect if you linger for even a second on a certain type of video, and then it serves you more and more of that content. And because TikTok is based around going viral... people assume that if they're seeing a lot of the same rhetoric on there, "that's what everyone thinks/feels".

I am obviously very critical or "MRA" rhetoric (a very close cousin of incel). Because I'm critical of it, I had a tendency to linger on/watch those videos to see what nonense "MRA guru" type people were spouting... within a week I was getting MRA/incel videos more frequently... within two weeks I was getting very little BUT those sorts of videos.

Imagine that's a teenager. Suddenly being served a load of absolute horse**** but from people who are well-practiced and sound like they know what they're talking about. Who use arguments and point to psychology concepts that seem hard to argue with unless you know what you're seeing. Who think it's a huge issue and what everyone is thinking about becuase it's constantly on their feed - not realising that if you make a conscious effort to skip those videos as soon as they start,TikTok gets the message and within another two weeks you're back to seeing silly slapstick and videos of cats speaking.

I genuinely think young minds are being flooded with this **** at the moment, almost entirely thanks to TikTok. YouTube does very similar to be honest... you watch one MRA video, your home page is going to suggest 5 more. But the effect isn't quite as concentrated.

Tiktok is a mess ,I'm glad I don't use it . I've seen clips from it and that's enough for me .

It's terrible on YouTube and Facebook , but I've used these platforms for years .

[Mystic Mock]

We're seeing far too many Incel groups forming recently.

These people need help, but instead they get encouraged by some people on the Internet who enable their behaviour.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

Bloody algorithms.
My lil brother and I share a YouTube account (he borrowed it when he wasn't able to get one, neither of us bothered to make a separate one) and he floods my recs with "Angry Reviewers" and gamers, when I only really use it for music and old sitcoms. But because he uses it more, and I guess that stuff is more "algo friendly" I never really see my stuff in the suggestions
But I guess it's good I know he's not watching anything dangerous

But yeah, social media is responsible for a lot of toxic behaviour on all "sides". The world would be a better place without it.

I'm not a superfan of Social Media personally, but I feel like it's used as a scapegoat sometimes to explain why certain people are unlikable twats.

Kinda like how Video Games used to be treated before Social Media came around to steal the controversy thunder of "my little angel wouldn't have raped & murdered someone without going on Tiktok/played GTA: Vice City" depending on which generation we're in.

All Social Media has done imo is bring the Incels & Feminazis to the forefront, sadly they've always existed it seems.

Oh and on a side note, you and your Brother have great taste when it comes to YouTube videos.

[LeatherTrumpet]

I think the jk Rowling haters are stoking this

[bitontheslide]

to me, it doesn't really matter how it happened, it's more the fact that there are so many nutters out there that think it's ok. All it has done is highlight that there is a massive problem in our society

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

to me, it doesn't really matter how it happened, it's more the fact that there are so many nutters out there that think it's ok. All it has done is highlight that there is a massive problem in our society

In social psychology terms it's one and the same... people are suggestible and vulnerable to propaganda. The methods of social contagion ARE the problem. Some more than others, but everyone is... anyone who thinks they're not just isn't aware of the brand of propaganda they're vulnerable to. Propaganda is obviously as old as civilisation itself (witch trials, pre-WW2 Germany etc.) but I do think there's a massive new problem with social media in general and it's getting in some ways far worse with the "new" social media platforms (like TikTok), because of 1) the speed of "bite-sized consumption" (message after message after message from different people; a strong subconscious social indicator of consensus) and 2) the damn algorithms that basically detect what people are vulnerable to and automatically spam more of the same repeatedly.

Couple that with the fact that they have a massive userbase in the 13-to-25 age bracket, who are more susceptible to social influence in general, and you have an absolute mess on your hands. The Incel issue is just one branch of what is a much broader problem ... and one that is politically bi-partisan. Incel/MRA stuff is traditionally linked more to the extreme right but, let's be honest here, Incels and Red/Blackpillers have far more in common with the Anime Avatars spamming "DIE TERF" at JK Rowling on Twitter than either group would ever accept.