[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Livia

So we're saying that even if he is found not guilty, as he has been in the past, then his career should still be over? Probably not worth going to court then as he's already been found guilty on the Internet.

It's guilty by accusation these days.

Personally though I do believe that Spacey is guilty, but if he is found innocent then he should be allowed to have his career back as there wasn't enough evidence to suggest his guilt if that's the case.

[Liam-]

Guilty until proven innocent and still guilty even after found innocent

[bitontheslide]

It's about the pro or negative effect his name has when associated with future productions that will determine if he works in high profile roles again. Its got nothing to do with innocent or guilt.

Trump still commands a huge following and will more than likely be the gop nominee for president and there arent many bigger crooks around than him

[Soldier Boy]

Originally Posted by Liam-

Guilty until proven innocent and still guilty even after found innocent

There's no such thing as "proven innocent" and the vast majority of sexual assault cases don't result in conviction due to lack of evidence.

In the case of Spacey, a number of unconnected individuals have raised concerns about his conduct. It's not just one random person, or a group of people in cahoots. It's fairly evident that his conduct in the workplace has been suspect.

[Soldier Boy]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

It's guilty by accusation these days.

Personally though I do believe that Spacey is guilty, but if he is found innocent then he should be allowed to have his career back as there wasn't enough evidence to suggest his guilt if that's the case.

There's now "allowing" about it - such is the nature of show business. He's not anyone's employee. There's no one to "give him anything back". Casting directors and producers will either think he's worth the risk, or they won't. Purely about profit. And that's down to public perception.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Liam-

Guilty until proven innocent and still guilty even after found innocent

And in Phillip Schofield's case.

Guilty without even being investigated.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Soldier Boy

There's now "allowing" about it - such is the nature of show business. He's not anyone's employee. There's no one to "give him anything back". Casting directors and producers will either think he's worth the risk, or they won't. Purely about profit. And that's down to public perception.

That's true tbf.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Soldier Boy

Less than 1% of sexual assaults result in conviction of the perpetrator so... Yes.

Obviously you're free to watch him in whatever he's in. I personally am not interested in seeing him on screen ever again, and I hope others feel the same.

Why does this mean so much to you? Unless Kevin Spacey is something else you have special knowledge about, having looked into it more than anyone else on TiBB.

nd yes, I am free to watch whomever I choose.

[Soldier Boy]

Originally Posted by Livia

Why does this mean so much to you? Unless Kevin Spacey is something else you have special knowledge about, having looked into it more than anyone else on TiBB.

nd yes, I am free to watch whomever I choose.

Spacey means no more to me than any of the other various nonces, perverts, predators and abusers that have been haunting our TV and movie screens for decades.

In terms of things worth giving a **** about, I don't think it's particularly weird or unusual that I find high-profile individuals who have abused their positions being held to account important.

[arista]

[Hollywood actor Kevin Spacey is 'a sexual bully'
who 'delights in making others feel powerless
and uncomfortable' sex attack trial where he is
charged with attacking four men is told

Southwark Crown Court will hear about
allegations from between 2001 to 2013]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ces-trial.html

[Gusto Brunt]

Originally Posted by Zizu

Or not


No smoke without fire .


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Let's see what happens.

[arista]

He has now left court,
again

A BBC Reporter
outside the court
said she thinks they will take
around 4 weeks.

[arista]

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by arista

[Hollywood actor Kevin Spacey is 'a sexual bully'
who 'delights in making others feel powerless
and uncomfortable' sex attack trial where he is
charged with attacking four men is told

Southwark Crown Court will hear about
allegations from between 2001 to 2013]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ces-trial.html

Sexual bully is a term that I wasn't expecting to hear.

It puts bullies back at School into a much softer light in comparison.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Soldier Boy

Spacey means no more to me than any of the other various nonces, perverts, predators and abusers that have been haunting our TV and movie screens for decades.

In terms of things worth giving a **** about, I don't think it's particularly weird or unusual that I find high-profile individuals who have abused their positions being held to account important.

TS. Judge, jury and executioner.

I'm still going to wait to hear the case as it unfolds rather than assume I already have the answer.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by arista

[Hollywood actor Kevin Spacey is 'a sexual bully'
who 'delights in making others feel powerless
and uncomfortable' sex attack trial where he is
charged with attacking four men is told

Southwark Crown Court will hear about
allegations from between 2001 to 2013]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ces-trial.html

if I was the prosecutor I'd have said the same.

[Soldier Boy]

Originally Posted by Livia

TS. Judge, jury and executioner.

I'm still going to wait to hear the case as it unfolds rather than assume I already have the answer.

If there's not enough evidence to convict which there often isn't in sexual abuse cases, on balance of probabilities I personally still believe his MULTIPLE victims (entirely my right to do so) and personally hope to never have to see his smirking mug on screen again, and that he quietly retires.

If there is enough evidence to convict I hope he goes to prison.

So its not a case of "X should happen regardless" at all.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Soldier Boy

If there's not enough evidence to convict which there often isn't in sexual abuse cases, on balance of probabilities I personally still believe his MULTIPLE victims (entirely my right to do so) and personally hope to never have to see his smirking mug on screen again, and that he quietly retires.

If there is enough evidence to convict I hope he goes to prison.

So its not a case of "X should happen regardless" at all.

So in future we could just assume everyone is guilty rather than assuming people's innocence like we're supposed to. Save all that time and money. Because you believe he's guilty he should be finished. I take it this stance will apply to everyone who is arrested and not just people you dislike personally.

Thank God you're not in the legal profession TS, I reckon your black cap would be threadbare after a month.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Zizu

Or not


No smoke without fire .


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

There is often a lot of smoke and no fire at all.

[bitontheslide]

these days it doesn't much matter if someone is innocent or guilty. It doesn't even affect their careers if they know the right people.

I may be starting to sound like Alf here but big business is directing all of this and has us all by the short and curlies

[Soldier Boy]

Originally Posted by Livia

So in future we could just assume everyone is guilty rather than assuming people's innocence like we're supposed to. Save all that time and money. Because you believe he's guilty he should be finished. I take it this stance will apply to everyone who is arrested and not just people you dislike personally.

Thank God you're not in the legal profession TS, I reckon your black cap would be threadbare after a month.

I find it far more concerning that you are in the legal profession and consistently demonstrate an inability or unwillingness to recognise that the letter of the law and personal opinion are entirely different and completely unrelated things.

[Soldier Boy]

Originally Posted by Livia

There is often a lot of smoke and no fire at all.

Not when it comes from multiple unrelated sources with no clear personal gain.

[UserSince2005]

I was told stories about Kevin spacey before it al came out the first time. He’s defo a deviant

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Soldier Boy

I find it far more concerning that you are in the legal profession and consistently demonstrate an inability or unwillingness to recognise that the letter of the law and personal opinion are entirely different and completely unrelated things.

Wow, thanks for the professional assassination. Are we here discussing me and my legal career and whether or not YOU think I'm suitable. I'm not a solicitor, I'm not a barrister. My area is international law, as I think you probably know.

YOU have decided he's guilty before the trial and I'M guilty of not following the letter of the law??

Again, don't lecture me on a subject in which I'm highly qualified and which you've acquainted yourself with on the Internet. Who do you think you are?

[Soldier Boy]

Originally Posted by Livia

Wow, thanks for the professional assassination. Are we here discussing me and my legal career and whether or not YOU think I'm suitable. I'm not a solicitor, I'm not a barrister. My area is international law, as I think you probably know.

YOU have decided he's guilty before the trial and I'M guilty of not following the letter of the law??

Again, don't lecture me on a subject in which I'm highly qualified and which you've acquainted yourself with on the Internet. Who do you think you are?

I think I'm a rank and file Tibb member debating **** on TiBB, just like you, arista and everyone else on this thread. I couldn't care less what your qualifications are or what you claim them to be, it's entirely irrelevant, that's sort of the point... So really, it's not about who I think I am, is it? It's that you think anything about your career matters one jot on this site. I know what you say you do and what you say your qualifications are. I don't actually know *one thing* about you. You might be a 65 year old pub landlord from Wales. It doesn't matter. I don't care.

*All* that matters on an anonymous Internet forums is our opinions. I have my opinion on Spacey, you have yours. I don't have a problem with you still stanning Spacey regardless of what he may or may not have done. You apparently have a problem with me having a negative opinion of him "if his poor behaviour isn't proven in court". I don't care what is or isn't proven about him in court, it doesn't affect my opinion of him or what I believe about him as an individual. Nor do your opinions affect that, any more than my opinions should affect yours.