[Livia]

I find it disturbing and disgusting in equal parts to see people on the far Left referring to people as Nazis. It's old and tired and meaningless.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Soldier Boy

Sorry Oliver I disagree, Posie Parker is not operating in good faith and is a complete liability for anyone who wants genuine sensible discourse to resume at any time soon.

Women are sick of trying for sensible discourse and it's met with violence and death threats from men in frocks. It's tiresome to have men tell women we should try to reason with these maniacs. The real trans community must be weeping.

Where are the hoards of F to M transsexuals punching people and demanding to be included in men's sport and entry to men only changing rooms?

[Cherie]

What I would also take from the video is that all the violence and hate was directed at women, there were no different groups fighting each other which you might expect to see when it kicks off like this? If the Far Right were there and backing women they were woefully silent on the issue

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Cherie

What I would also take from the video is that all the violence and hate was directed at women, there were no different groups fighting each other which you might expect to see when it kicks off like this? If the Far Right were there and backing women they were woefully silent on the issue

Apparently that's all fine and we should try reasonable discourse. And stop being Nazis.

[Soldier Boy]

Originally Posted by Livia

Women are sick of trying for sensible discourse and it's met with violence and death threats from men in frocks. It's tiresome to have men tell women we should try to reason with these maniacs. The real trans community must be weeping.

Where are the hoards of F to M transsexuals punching people and demanding to be included in men's sport and entry to men only changing rooms?

Again I don't disagree and it's not the expressions of frustration that I'm really referring to, I'm not tone-policing, but Parker specifically I think there are a number of red flags. For example, she has effectively said that the abortion ban (and other aspects of oppression of women's rights) are "worth it" in the gender ideology battle.

She'll happily court evangelists and misogynists "for the numbers" to support her cause and that means she either naively believes she can use those numbers and then discard that "army" once her own goals are achieved, OR she agrees with/is indifferent to the other supremacist goals of those groups.

Either way her methods are just more fuel on the fire to make matters worse for everyone. Her rhetoric isn't any more helpful than (and has an awful lot in common with) things like Stonewall "on the other side".

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Soldier Boy

Again I don't disagree and it's not the expressions of frustration that I'm really referring to, I'm not tone-policing, but Parker specifically I think there are a number of red flags. For example, she has effectively said that the abortion ban (and other aspects of oppression of women's rights) are "worth it" in the gender ideology battle.

She'll happily court evangelists and misogynists "for the numbers" to support her cause and that means she either naively believes she can use those numbers and then discard that "army" once her own goals are achieved, OR she agrees with/is indifferent to the other supremacist goals of those groups.

Either way her methods are just more fuel on the fire to make matters worse for everyone. Her rhetoric isn't any more helpful than (and has an awful lot in common with) things like Stonewall "on the other side".

I don't know alot about her apart from watching a few clips posted on here

[Soldier Boy]

Originally Posted by Livia

Apparently that's all fine and we should try reasonable discourse. And stop being Nazis.

At some point there will have to be reasonable discourse. Despite people getting dreamy-eyed about "throwing bricks" it's not where actual progress is made. No one is going to suddenly "win".

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Soldier Boy

Again I don't disagree and it's not the expressions of frustration that I'm really referring to, I'm not tone-policing, but Parker specifically I think there are a number of red flags. For example, she has effectively said that the abortion ban (and other aspects of oppression of women's rights) are "worth it" in the gender ideology battle.

She'll happily court evangelists and misogynists "for the numbers" to support her cause and that means she either naively believes she can use those numbers and then discard that "army" once her own goals are achieved, OR she agrees with/is indifferent to the other supremacist goals of those groups.

Either way her methods are just more fuel on the fire to make matters worse for everyone. Her rhetoric isn't any more helpful than (and has an awful lot in common with) things like Stonewall "on the other side".

Women, eh? Why would you expect us to be more measured than the chicks with dicks who turn out for violent confrontation.

She should just shut up or face the consequences, right? Like JK Rowling.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Soldier Boy

At some point there will have to be reasonable discourse. Despite people getting dreamy-eyed about "throwing bricks" it's not where actual progress is made. No one is going to suddenly "win".

And that's your message to women? I expect you're right, what with you having a cock and all.

[Soldier Boy]

Originally Posted by Livia

Women, eh? Why would you expect us to be more measured than the chicks with dicks who turn out for violent confrontation.

She should just shut up or face the consequences, right? Like JK Rowling.

Originally Posted by Livia

And that's your message to women? I expect you're right, what with you having a cock and all.

Again I'm not tone policing I think the current climate is inevitable and understandable but that doesn't mean its a good idea to overlook where there are genuinely questionable connections as there have been with Posie Parker and right-wing evangelist donors.

[Livia]

Questionable connections according to you. No one deserves that kind of treatment as far as I'm concerned. You think differently. Thank God there are some heterosexual men who back us instead of telling us how we should be reacting and behaving.

[Soldier Boy]

Originally Posted by Livia

Questionable connections according to you. No one deserves that kind of treatment as far as I'm concerned. You think differently. Thank God there are some heterosexual men who back us instead of telling us how we should be reacting and behaving.

Not according to me, the groups she associates with are easy to look up, along with their beliefs, as are things she's said in the past about abortion etc.

I also didn't once say or imply that what happened in NZ was justified or deserved.

My overall thoughts on the topic of gender ideology are or should be pretty clear on here surely, as is my stance when it comes to women's spaces, children and safeguarding .

Again its the all or nothing thinking; Posie Parker "must" be a good person, because she stands for things that I agree with? I just don't think she is. She's too comfortable leaning into support from skinheads. It's a concern, to me. How you feel about it is your business.

[parmnion]

Antifa have their claws in the trans activism movement.

It's not a good look.

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Soldier Boy

At some point there will have to be reasonable discourse. Despite people getting dreamy-eyed about "throwing bricks" it's not where actual progress is made. No one is going to suddenly "win".

What specifically has she said in her interviews that is a concern?

[parmnion]

Since we are stating our stances on such matters.

My stance is.

If all the trans people who these trans rights activists are sticking up for were real women, they would all be out protesting against themselves for their own rights.

[The Slim Reaper]

Trans people and women, were, up until around 2019 sharing spaces without any issue whatsoever, and then women have been propagandised/radicalised (mainly by men) into believing their world is being taken away and they are being replaced by a new group of "chicks with dicks" to quote our Cambridge educated lawyer.

I would be radicalised too, if that's what I believed. Everyone always believes they can see through propaganda, which of course only ever happens to other people, but all of us are susceptible to it.

On the other side of that, we have trans people just going about their lives, until they became the topic on everyone else's tongue, not to include in discussion, but to be attacked, marginalised and placed in fear. As a marginalised minority, they also have every right and I'd go beyond that to say duty, to actually fight for their lives, because eradicating trans genderism is just starting to be brought up in the US, which means it will be here too, soon enough.

That's a real and fundamental difference; the very people you all opine on everyday, now face these real and targeted threats consistently. I mean, what the fcuk are people doing having rallies to attack people. I know the Nazi thing gets overdone, but Jesus

I've obviously had my issues with TS, but he's tied himself in knots here to try and be understanding, but has been met with nothing more than weirdness about either supporting women, or supporting lady boys. It's just not true.

There are no solutions, no attempt to be understanding, just vitriol and abuse thrown at a marginalised community. I have issues with trans people in sports, and I think maybe that's because I played a lot of sports growing up, but none of you (I'll exclude ts here) are in any way interested in finding a way forward. I think the first time I ever posted on trans issues, I asked what solutions you had, and to this day, tibb is still way more interested in finding attack pieces; which is cool if that's what you want to do, but seriously, I never thought I'd be happy to see a M&H thread appear, because I have to say, most of you are being completely ridiculous.


If you can't see there is an all out culture war attack on trans people at this point, then you'll never see it, but keep up with this hateful language, and it will soon be followed by hateful actions, and then you won't be able to backpedal away from it. I know deep down, that's not what most of you want, but that's where the buy in to this constant noise ends up, because we've all seen one history documentary, or read one book at least.

[parmnion]

All everyone wants, apart from the trans. Is a 3rd room.

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by parmnion

All everyone wants, apart from the trans. Is a 3rd room.

Is that a room for trans women? What about trans men?

[parmnion]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

Is that a room for trans women? What about trans men?

A 3rd and 4th then...more expense for us. The tax payer.

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

Trans people and women, were, up until around 2019 sharing spaces without any issue whatsoever

what on gods earth are you on about?

that is a total fallacy

SO after 2019 a woman did not want to see a guys dick in their toilet or changing room


2018 - sure lets have it?

[Cherie]

Was self ID a thing in 2019? a genuine query as I had never heard of it

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

what on gods earth are you on about?

that is a total fallacy

SO after 2019 a woman did not want to see a guys dick in their toilet or changing room


2018 - sure lets have it?

It wasn't even a consideration, people used bathrooms to either pee or poop. It wasn't until it was made into an issue that it became a problem.

The equalities act was passed in 2010, so trans women had access to women's bathrooms from that point on, and probably before that (unofficially).

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by parmnion

A 3rd and 4th then...more expense for us. The tax payer.

Then we need a 5th for the communists.

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

It wasn't even a consideration, people used bathrooms to either pee or poop. It wasn't until it was made into an issue that it became a problem.

The equalities act was passed in 2010, so trans women had access to women's bathrooms from that point on, and probably before that (unofficially).

The arrogance to pretend you knew what women thought about men invading their safe spaces

[Cherie]

I guess not then