[Livia]

Originally Posted by Alf

On the flat they're racing on hard ground going at top speeds. Over fences it's mainly on soft ground going at a nice steady gallop.

If you don't like it then don't watch it but why use the excuse that you care for horses to spoil others (including the horses) enjoyment. If you care that much then let's see you taking care of all these horses you want putting into retirement. Less talk, more action.

You're assuming you know that my concern is false. I am a supporter of Redwings... I do care for horses and animals in general. It's a bit harsh of you to dismiss my concern as empty do-gooding... But it's not surprising.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Alf

Every effing year we have this argument.

Yes We Do.


But this is about that group
claiming to have 100 to invade the event,


But now it is in public
I am sure they can now,
stop them

[parmnion]

Lots of horses enjoy it and for their rights as horses who like a good old run out then the national should go ahead.

[Alf]

Originally Posted by Alf

On the flat they're racing on hard ground going at top speeds. Over fences it's mainly on soft ground going at a nice steady gallop.

If you don't like it then don't watch it but why use the excuse that you care for horses to spoil others (including the horses) enjoyment. If you care that much then let's see you taking care of all these horses you want putting into retirement. Less talk, more action.

Originally Posted by Livia

You're assuming you know that my concern is false. I am a supporter of Redwings... I do care for horses and animals in general. It's a bit harsh of you to dismiss my concern as empty do-gooding... But it's not surprising.

I'n not talking about supporting some charities. I'm talking about you building some stables to house the hundreds of horses you want putting into retirement. Feeding them, grooming them, walking them, paying their vets bills. Go on, really show you care.

[arista]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Lots of horses enjoy it and for their rights as horses who like a good old run out then the national should go ahead.

Yes that's true

Of course, some horses get injured.



Police need to arrest any that try to halt this event.

[parmnion]

What next?

Horses, cows, pigs, sheep and chickens just roaming about unchecked and free in the countryside and villages!!

Or are we allowed to keep them from that as our emotional slaves, like our cats, dogs budgies and snakes.?

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Alf

I'n not talking about supporting some charities. I'm talking about you building some stables to house the hundreds of horses you want putting into retirement. Feeding them, grooming them, walking them, paying their vets bills. Go on, really show you care.

So if I disagree I'm supposed to build stables and home horses that would not exist had they not been bred especially for racing. Phase it out, don't breed further horse stocks then no one will have to worry.

Anyway, if you support it so much, I expect you already contribute to the upkeep of retired horses right now? Or are you demanding something of me you wouldn't do yourself?

[Livia]

Originally Posted by parmnion

What next?

Horses, cows, pigs, sheep and chickens just roaming about unchecked and free in the countryside and villages!!

Or are we allowed to keep them from that as our emotional slaves, like our cats, dogs budgies and snakes.?

You and Alf are reducing the argument to the ridiculous. So this is where I drop out. This is serious debates after all.

[joeysteele]

I have to say I go with bots, jet, Kazanne and Livia on this one.

I'm a late convert to the wrongs of this race.
I feel they've had plenty time to make the race safer.
Since they obviously will not or cannot then I'd support the ending of it.

Racehorses who haven't been winners can be treated badly and can be passed on to some awful individuals.
Even sent to slaughter.
So I'm not persuaded of the caring owners tripe.

It's about money and getting big money at that with only ever increasing danger to the Horses.
They are beautiful beings and shouldn't have their lives put at risk for the purpose of moneymaking and so called (huh), entertainment.

[parmnion]

Originally Posted by Livia

You and Alf are reducing the argument to the ridiculous. So this is where I drop out. This is serious debates after all.

Well that's ridiculous of you to do that.

So what happens to these animals? Do we stop them from breeding so theres eventually enough to manage. Or do we allow them to live the lives they were originally born to do, which is to live as freely as we do on mother earth(or more free than we do cause they shouldnt have to abide by our rules)..cause I see some serious health and safety issues for us if we allow that.

Animal rights, should he exactly that.. the right to walk on mother earth without human interference, No?

[Livia]

Originally Posted by parmnion

What next?

Horses, cows, pigs, sheep and chickens just roaming about unchecked and free in the countryside and villages!!

Or are we allowed to keep them from that as our emotional slaves, like our cats, dogs budgies and snakes.?

Read your post again Parm and then tell me I'm being ridiculous.

[Alf]

Originally Posted by Livia

You and Alf are reducing the argument to the ridiculous. So this is where I drop out. This is serious debates after all.

Too good for us, are you?

[parmnion]

Originally Posted by Livia

Read your post again Parm and then tell me I'm being ridiculous.

Its true though, people want this stopped for the rights of the animal. So I'm asking where does that begin and end.

My first question is who the **** are we to decide what animals are free to roam freely and which are not?

[jet]

https://www.peta.org.uk/blog/the-gra...-horse-racing/

The Grand National: 9 Things They Don’t Tell You About Horse Racing

Whatever the results of this year’s Grand National, there’s one thing that’s a safe bet – horses will suffer as a result of the unethical spectacle at Aintree. To date, horses have died at the Grand National Festival in 16 out of the last 18 years, yet ITV still broadcasts it.

Some of those 9:

Horses die on the track.
To date, Horses have died at the Grand National Festival in 16 out of the last 18 years. Last year, 10-year-old Lilbitluso was euthanised after falling at the Canal Turn fence on the first day of the event. Horses who fall, are injured, or die endure a traumatic experience – a stomach-churning mess of tangled limbs, fractured bones, and broken spines.

Horses May Be Drugged
Drugs, both legal and illegal, can be as ubiquitous in racing as ridiculous hats are at Ascot. Horses may be drugged to mask the pain of existing injuries and conditions, keeping them running when they should be resting or receiving treatment. And illegal drugs are sometimes used to try to make horses run faster. For example, Mahmood al-Zarooni – a trainer with one of the world’s biggest horse-racing operations – was banned from racing for eight years for doping horses with prohibited steroids.

Horses May Be ‘Retired’ to the Abattoir
When horses used for racing get too old or stop performing well enough to be profitable, they’re often sent to slaughter. Approximately 1,000 horses from the industry are killed in abattoirs in Britain every year and turned into dog food or cheap meat, while others face horrific live-export journeys to Europe.

The Grand National Is One of the World’s Deadliest Courses
The infamous Becher’s Brook is known as the world’s most dangerous jump and has racked up many fatalities, yet race officials refuse to remove it. Racing 40 skittish horses at a time makes accidents yet more likely, while the minor so-called “improvements” that have been made to the course in response to public protest are mere token gestures. It’s the danger of the race that draws in crowds and lines bookies’ pockets – and it’s the horses who pay with their lives.

They’re Forced to Race While They’re Still Growing
Making horses risk their lives on the racecourse is wrong, regardless of their age. But it’s especially heartbreaking to learn that these animals are commonly forced to begin racing when they’re barely more than babies and their bodies are especially prone to damage. It’s hardly surprising, then, that injuries, lameness, and exhaustion are common.
………………
I hope the protesters are successful in stopping the Grand National and to hell with some peoples ‘enjoyment’!!

[Alf]

Whatever the outcome of people building things for us, people will die on those building sites. Let's ban building things and ban building sites and construction work? It's cruel to humans.

Whatever the outcome of people using transport to get to a destination, people will be killed. Let's ban transport, it's cruel to humans.

Whatever the outcome of people eating food. People will die. Let's ban food, it's cruel to humans.

[LeatherTrumpet]

I do not agree with mobs like this who think they are so right other people and their opinions do not count so they can do things like stop traffic etc

louts

[jet]

Originally Posted by Alf

Whatever the outcome of people building things for us, people will die on those building sites. Let's ban building things and ban building sites and construction work? It's cruel to humans.

Whatever the outcome of people using transport to get to a destination, people will be killed. Let's ban transport, it's cruel to humans.

Whatever the outcome of people eating food. People will die. Let's ban food, it's cruel to humans.

Ridiculous comparisons Alf.
Let’s have a little flutter and watch on TV a programme where actual human beings may die on building sites and in transport accidents and choking to death on their food.
For enjoyment, you know?

[jet]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

I do not agree with mobs like this who think they are so right other people and their opinions do not count so they can do things like stop traffic etc

louts

They won't be stopping traffic, they will be blocking the race course.
I hope they succeed.

[joeysteele]

I'm sure security now, even greater police presence, no matter the cost will be heavily strengthened after this advance notice of disruption.

The Horses cannot speak for themselves Human beings can speak for them.
It may very well be extreme action but as the detailed post from jet shows.
The changes to this race and course, (I won't call them improvements), have been token gestures more than likely only.

I too however, hope the protesters can succeed, because it's warranted and they deserve to succeed in my view.

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by jet

They won't be stopping traffic, they will be blocking the race course.
I hope they succeed.

i hope they are arrested and jailed for their arrogance

[LeatherTrumpet]

Unrepentant eco-fanatics double down on plot to sabotage the Grand National:
XR offshoot vow to cause 'summer of animal rising' including breaking into
farms, disrupting diners, blocking supermarket aisles and stopping traffic on
roads

They also pledged to stop traffic across Britain, the same tactic used by Just
Stop Oil to cause chaos on crucial highways and motorways last year.

This conversation is vital if we are to tackle the root causes of our climate and
ecological crises.’

(zealots and hard left nut-jobs)

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-National.html

[Alf]

Originally Posted by jet

Ridiculous comparisons Alf.
Let’s have a little flutter and watch on TV a programme where actual human beings may die on building sites and in transport accidents and choking to death on their food.
For enjoyment, you know?

Well you have to call them ridiculous for you to win the argument, I didn't think you were going to agree with them. The thing is, I agree that they're ridiculous, but they're the same arguments you're making. I'm pointing out how your arguments are ridiculous too. Your argument is basically, there's risks.

[Alf]

You've made your arguments for years and years. The horse racing authorities have even done everything to alter things to make things safer, they've listened to you and made compromises. But the fact is, this a democracy and the nation wants the Grand National. Move on, you're boring.

[Soldier Boy]

Originally Posted by arista

No
it is tradition
Even you, Jet,
must understand that.


To many betting companies
could go under

Bookies don't make money off the national unless a random outsider wins. Other than using it as an advertising opportunity to bring in new customers.

And it was getting less and less turnover year on year every year I worked for a bookmaker.

[Soldier Boy]

Originally Posted by Alf

But the fact is, this a democracy and the nation wants the Grand National. Move on, you're boring.

Nah. The GN and horseracing in general is swiftly going out of fashion. It's already an older gent's betting sport of choice and in a few decades that'll taper off too. Younger folks like their slots machines and their football. American sports are on the rise, too. Racing is on the way out.