[parmnion]

Originally Posted by Abra

Where did I say that "gay has always been used negatively in every single conversation and scenario across the UK"? It would be easier to debate with you if you weren't just making things up and we were actually debating on the same intellectual level. If you really want to act like there's a chance that Kerry's use of the word had no connotations to the internationally recognised modern definition of the word gay you're completely delusional.

"A term of endearment"

Nothing more out of touch than a straight person trying to educate a gay person on what is or isn't homophobic, when you're actually just imposing your own ignorance. Your masked slipped a bit with that "grinches" comment though, no wonder you're so eager to defend homophobia. Birds of a feather and all

Yes, we can do without personal abuse thank you very much.

[Abra]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Yes, we can do without personal abuse thank you very much.

Then you should probably refrain from referring to gay people as "grinches", unless you are comfortable with being a hypocrite.

[Cherie]

I feel like I know you Abra? have you posted under a different name previously?

[parmnion]

Originally Posted by Abra

Then you should probably refrain from referring to gay people as "grinches", unless you are comfortable with being a hypocrite.

Ok grinchy. Whatever you and your snowflakes say.

[Benjamin]

Originally Posted by Glenn.

Her intent was to describe people in a negative way and chose to use the word gay to do that. That’s your context. Using the term gay in a negative way to insult people is homophobic no matter how you want to wrap it up.

That’s your opinion though. I don’t find it homophobic as it wasn’t being used in that context.

[Abra]

Originally Posted by Cherie

I feel like I know you Abra? have you posted under a different name previously?

Not that I recall - who do I remind you of?

[Abra]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Ok grinchy. Whatever you and your snowflakes say.

Sure, I'm the snowflake, not the one crying about the fact that the word gay means something different than it did 100 years ago. Put down the Daily Mail and turn off GB News, Karen

[parmnion]

Originally Posted by Abra

Sure, I'm the snowflake, not the one crying about the fact that the word gay means something different than it did 100 years ago. Put down the Daily Mail and turn off GB News, Karen

Oh, I wasnt crying...

You could never make me do that. I was merely telling a gay person that they stole the word then got all teary because it can get used to describe negative things endearingly... boohoo, poor gay man thinks words belongs to him

[parmnion]

And dont presume I'm straight either abra you've been here 5 minutes and know nothing about me.

[Abra]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Oh, I wasnt crying...

You could never make me do that. I was merely telling a gay person that they stole the word then got all teary because it can get used to describe negative things endearingly... boohoo, poor gay man thinks words belongs to him

Keep going love, get out all that rage you have for the gays Hopefully you'll feel better

[Babayaro.]

It’s a strange one. Would I say Kerry is a homophobe after saying that? No, probably not. Is she incredibly ignorant? Yes. She should know better than to so casually blurt out something like that.

[parmnion]

Originally Posted by Abra

Keep going love, get out all that rage you have for the gays Hopefully you'll feel better

I'd rather just put you on ignore tbh...are you a lesbian by any chance?

[Redrose]

Originally Posted by Glenn.

I love to see heteros downplay homophobia.

Whether you care to admit it, it IS homophobic.

They never do and try to gaslight by claiming it's you that's the problem.

[Garfie]

Originally Posted by Abra

‘…it's honestly such an outdated phrase that she's literally made herself look like a 14 year old boy in the year 2008. More than anything, she's just a ****ing dumbass for saying that in the Big Brother house of all places, AND in front of a gay housemate.

Can’t agree with this more. It’s strange and immature expression to come out of the mouth of a 40 year old woman, who’s a middle manager for the NHS.

[Garfie]

Originally Posted by Alf

So the LGBTQXYZ Nazi Police are coming after people's basic freedoms yet again.

The LGBTQ movement is such an authoritarian movement. That's undeniable, it's plain to see right here if this is true. No wonder the older homosexuals don't want anything to do with it.

I don’t think this is about LGBTQ+ as such, but about using language appropriate to the 2020s.

As such, the same sort of arguments would exist, no matter what minority or suppressed group was being insulted.

That’s why there were debates about whether Zak comments were sexist, and why the racist use of the ‘n*****’ word or ‘P***’ word would be offensive today, even though they were freely used on TV in the 1970s.

The reality of the times is that the use of the word ‘gay’ as a way of insulting people is publicly acknowledged as homophobic language, even if the person using it doesn’t recognise or mean it as such, and even if some people watching don’t take offence to it. The fact is, if the word wasn’t perceived as homophobic, BB wouldn’t have felt the need to reprimand Kerry and demand that she issue an apology.

[Garfie]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Oh, I wasnt crying...

You could never make me do that. I was merely telling a gay person that they stole the word then got all teary because it can get used to describe negative things endearingly... boohoo, poor gay man thinks words belongs to him

If you had an understanding of the etymology of language you would know that words are not ‘stolen’, that thousands of words change their meanings over time, and that this is just one of many. An example would be the word ‘pretty’ which was originally used to describe a man, and meant ‘clever’. And the truth is, few people born after 1970 would ever use the word ‘gay’ as a way of saying happy, and it’s use in that way has been practically obsolete for decades.

Your comments towards Abra are now coming across as goading and aimed at insulting or upsetting, rather than making valid points. That doesn’t make for a strong argument on your part. Come on, Parmi - I know from the past you are so much better than that.

[Ammi]

…great posts, Garfie……also just to add that there would probably be derogatory terms/expressions for those with a limited mobility/medical condition and disease etc that Kerry would find offensive…

…words/expressions do change over time especially when they’ve become and been used and attached negatively…how we refer to travellers for instance is another term that’s changed over time …Kerry’s use with the word was rightfully addressed, I feel…

[vesavius]

Originally Posted by Garfie

Your comments towards Abra are now coming across as goading and aimed at insulting or upsetting, rather than making valid points.

Interesting that you only point out one of the posters here doing that and not the other.

Originally Posted by Garfie

I don’t think this is about LGBTQ+ as such, but about using language appropriate to the 2020s.

Yes, the conversation here is partly about who gets to control the language and decide if it is 'appropriate' or not. I just don't recognise your or others' right to do that.

It is also about context and intent.

And it is also about the use of dangerous and very serious words like 'homophobic' incorrectly in an attempt to damage others in a very real way in their real lives.

Those kinds of terms can result in a person getting publically harassed or assaulted by nutjobs or losing their job, just because they used an outdated term in a way that you don't like. That, to me, is not right.

Originally Posted by Garfie

The reality of the times is that the use of the word ‘gay’ as a way of insulting people is publicly acknowledged as homophobic language. The fact is, if the word wasn’t perceived as transphobic, BB wouldn’t have felt the need to reprimand Kerry and demand that she issue an apology.

The public is not a monolith, we don't all perceive this in the same way and so we do not all publically acknowledge that, no.

'Homophobe' to a lot out here is (rightly in my view) seen as something far more serious than the one off use of an outdated word. It means the active dislike or hatred of gay people, neither of which Kerry has shown.

I am not saying anyone has to like the way that she used the word. All I am saying that going right to the nuclear option of calling her a 'homophobe' (and now, somehow, a 'transphobe') for it is not the way.

How on earth has she shown herself to be 'transphobic'? It's getting nuts.

In my view, the 'phobe' terms are used way too easily and too casually considering their destructive power. It often comes across as a spiteful and malicious attempt to destroy the life of the other person, something often far worse often than the original 'crime'.

Look, if BB thought it was that serious Kelly would have been removed right away, like Emily was when she said the N word. The fact that she wasn't tells us that BB didn't think it was that bad and that an apology would do (even though we know an apology is NEVER enough in these situations for those who choose to be offended).

If BB actually agreed with you that it was actually 'homophobic' she would be gone instead of being warned and forced to apologise simply to appease a loud minority.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Garfie

I don’t think this is about LGBTQ+ as such, but about using language appropriate to the 2020s.

As such, the same sort of arguments would exist, no matter what minority or suppressed group was being insulted.

That’s why there were debates about whether Zak comments were sexist, and why the racist use of the ‘n*****’ word or ‘P***’ word would be offensive today, even though they were freely used on TV in the 1970s.

The reality of the times is that the use of the word ‘gay’ as a way of insulting people is publicly acknowledged as homophobic language, even if the person using it doesn’t recognise or mean it as such, and even if some people watching don’t take offence to it. The fact is, if the word wasn’t perceived as transphobic, BB wouldn’t have felt the need to reprimand Kerry and demand that she issue an apology.

tbf though I do think there's a difference here, it wasn't the words Zak was using that was sexist, it was the ideas he was expressing (in jest or not) that women are second class citizens to men (ie. people don't listen to you because you're a woman, come over here and do what you're told like a good girl etc) Was he joking or does he really think that, I don't know but I can guarantee if you "joked" that white people are more important than black people nobody would be saying "ah but it's just a joke"

[vesavius]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

...I can guarantee if you "joked" that white people are more important than black people nobody would be saying "ah but it's just a joke"

I would if it was clearly just a joke.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by vesavius

I would if it was clearly just a joke.

Most people then..

[Garfie]

Originally Posted by vesavius

All I am saying that going right to the nuclear option of calling her a 'homophobe' (and now, somehow, a 'transphobe') for it is not the way.

How on earth has she shown herself to be 'transphobic'? It's getting nuts.
.

Apologies for the mistake on my part - I meant to write ‘homophobic’ language, rather than ‘transphobic’ language in my post. I’ve gone back and corrected this.

Please note I have not referred to Kerry as either a homophobe or transphobe - she clearly is not - my point was that this is about the use of language not about the person.

[Redrose]

Originally Posted by vesavius

That's your opinion. I tend to not be so triggered hair upset by the use of words. Context and intent matter to me.



To you. Not to me.

There has been nothing that she has said or done that suggests that she has any dislike or hate toward gay people.

Calling people homophobes based on the use of a single unapproved word just feels so 2016 Tumblr. I thought that we had moved past that cringe.

All straight people are the same. I've never met a decent one. Even stopped you from entering my home. Love to make the context argument. You even do it with the f-word because meatballs have the same name.