[nodisharmony]

WAR TALK......

Link & Article below:-

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/7418256e-2e7...0779fd2ac.html


Islamists suffer as freedom slips down the Mideast agenda
By Heba Saleh

Published: July 10 2007 03:00 | Last updated: July 10 2007 03:00

In a chilling account of his torture in a Cairo detention facility, Abu Omar, an Egyptian cleric, describes how he was interrogated while naked, blindfolded and hanging upside down by his feet.

"I am recording my testimony from inside my grave," he writes in prison at the beginning of an account that goes on to detail beatings, electric shocks and sexual assault.



Abu Omar was released a few months ago after almost four years in detention. He is currently at the centre of a court case in Italy where prosecutors allege he was snatched from a street in Milan by CIA and Italian security agents, then flown to Egypt to be tortured under the US extraordinary renditions programme.

Four years after US President George W. Bush launched an initiative promising a "forward strategy of freedom" to bring democracy to the Middle East, human rights activists say the war against terror and practices such as extraordinary rendition have underlined the shallowness of America's commitment to democracy and human rights in the Arab world.

Egypt is the most visible manifestation of this dilemma. Despite repeated promises of a democratic transformation, Egyptian authorities have launched yet another crackdown on the Muslim Brotherhood, the largest opposition force in the country. The government has also pushed through constitutional amendments that human rights defenders say mark an alarming regression in civil liberties. The US still voices concern about human rights in Egypt but more privately than in recent years. This message, moreover, is confused and undermined by its own record, including on renditions.

"The US and weak European allies have chosen at this moment in time [to support] repressive, stable, pro-western governments instead of the threat of the unknown - that is the Islamists having political power," says Sarah Leah Whitson, Middle East director of the US-based Human Rights Watch.

The failure of democratic reforms in Iraq to quell the mounting sectarian violence there, as well as the election of a Hamas-dominated parliament by the Palestinians, appear further to have eroded what remained of Washington's willingness to press for political reforms in countries where Islamists are certain to be main beneficiaries.

Hopes for improvement in democratic rights have been dashed across the region: there is no talk of new elections in Saudi Arabia, which held its first limited nationwide poll in 2005, for example, and some reformers who have demanded constitutional changes have faced renewed pressure.

In Syria, the regime has been cracking down hard, with the courts delivering long jail terms to some dissidents and human rights activists. In Jordan, meanwhile, the government has been accused by Human Rights Watch of breaking its promise to revise restrictive new press laws.

But it is the experience of Egypt, the Arab world's most populous country and once a trendsetter in the region, that activists both inside and outside the country find the most disappointing. "The impact in Egypt has been shocking. With the US backing down, Cairo thinks it has a licence to clamp down on the Muslim Brotherhood," says Ms Whitson.

Since late last year the government has arrested hundreds of supporters of the Muslim Brotherhood, which has widespread grassroots support despite being illegal. Some 40 members, including senior leaders, have been referred for military trial, in a move criticised by both local and international human rights groups.

Officials charge that the Brotherhood is a danger to democracy and to the cohesion of a society with a sizeable Christian minority. But in elections in 2005 the group outperformed all legal opposition parties: affiliated candidates running as independents won one-fifth of the seats in parliament.

Despite the Brotherhood's electoral success, and its leaders' insistence that they are committed to peaceful politics, the government has maintained its long-standing policy of containing them through periodic arrests.

During elections, such as those for the upper chamber of parliament in June, polling stations are often barred to Brotherhood supporters or even surrounded by riot police and closed.

"I think the government's policy towards the Brotherhood will continue especially after the [Palestinian Islamist group] Hamas takeover of Gaza," says Hafez Abu Saada, head of the Egyptian Organisation for Human Rights. "Gaza has convinced the authorities here that they are doing the right thing and it has also helped convince the west of the Egyptian government's view. There will be more repression, but it will be easier because they won't have to justify it."

Already Egypt has adopted controversial constitutional amendments aimed at blocking further electoral advances by the Islamists. Human rights groups have loudly opposed one particular change intended to pave the way for a new anti-terrorism law that would allow the suspension of key constitutional guarantees of basic rights. The US has criticised the law, but in notably muted fashion.

The authorities contend the changes are necessary in the face of deadly attacks by Islamic militants. They say the new law will be used only in terrorism cases and under judicial supervision. But human rights activists are sceptical.

"This law will be a disaster," says Mr Abu Saada. "All they would have to say is that they suspect someone of being a terrorist or of planning violence and that will allow all sorts of exceptional measures, giving the security services unlimited powers of arrest and detention." For him and other activists, the fear is that the law will be used to intimidate opposition supporters.

The overall human rights picture may remain grim, with political activity constrained and practices such as torture rife, but the last few years have brought a big advance in freedom of speech, which is much in evidence in the privately-owned print and broadcast media.

The more outspoken members of the press still risk some harassment, but sensitive issues such as torture, corruption and the failures of government are discussed with unprecedented openness. It is no longer taboo to criticise President Hosni Mubarak or his family.

The reasons for this new openness are a complex combination of domestic pressure fuelled partly by anger over the Iraq war, the brief period of US pressure for reform in the aftermath of the war and the ruling party's desire to modernise its image.

But passing from critical speech to political action is still a costly undertaking. Demonstrations and public protests remain outlawed.

"There is now a debate over democracy and human rights," says Mokhlis Kotb, secretary-general of the government appointed National Council for Human Rights, established in 2003. "But the real problem is that there is an absence of the culture of respect for human rights on all levels of society."





nodisharmony

[rex3]

i think i agree. it shows how its all a front and the gear work that goes through getting there tasks done in the middle east is the most inhumane thing, that not even the western products, me and you can digest, unless of course they make a hollywood film about

[nodisharmony]

Originally posted by rex3
nodis to save time what is your point?

Well, reading through this frightening story, where Abu Omar has been tortured, beaten, electric shocks, sexually assaulted, then goes on about the lack of human rights.

Look at where this is happening and think long and hard about the way these people live and the middle-eastern Countries which they reside.

The face of War never changes and the problem with this story, it is "Just another story", which goes on & on, day after day, week after week, month after month and year after year.

I don't need to elaborate much on the story at hand, as it is written in plain English, so explanation is a waste.

Just understand where and who is involved.

I have highlighted the important words in Bold

Need I say more






nodisharmony

[spacebandit]

Originally posted by nodisharmony

Well, reading through this frightening story, where Abu Omar has been tortured, beaten, electric shocks, sexually assaulted, then goes on about the lack of human rights.

Look at where this is happening and think long and hard about the way these people live and the middle-eastern Countries which they reside.

The face of War never changes and the problem with this story, it is "Just another story", which goes on & on, day after day, week after week, month after month and year after year.

I don't need to elaborate much on the story at hand, as it is written in plain English, so explanation is a waste.

Just understand where and who is involved.

I have highlighted the important words in Bold

Need I say more



nodisharmony

This is hilarious!!!!!!

You pontificate about the evil nasty arabs torturing poor innocent arabs, you say you highlight the important words in bold, just to further get your point across
yet you ignore the most salient point

Abu Omar was kdnapped and tortured by.............

......................wait for it....................

.......................drum roll...................


AMERICANS


Clearly the strory wasn't

Originally posted by nodisharmony
written in plain English

enough for you to understand it before you used it as another excuse to attack non-white people en masse - again


I have re-printed the important points here, the ones you ignored, and emboldened the important parts that show your argument for what it is - another blanket racist attack performed by cherry picking detail and hoping no-one would notice

Abu Omar was released a few months ago after almost four years in detention. He is currently at the centre of a court case in Italy where prosecutors allege he was snatched from a street in Milan by CIA and Italian security agents, then flown to Egypt to be tortured under the US extraordinary renditions programme.

[nodisharmony]

Slightly wrong

Originally posted by spacebandit


This is hilarious!!!!!!

Is it?

Originally posted by spacebandit

You pontificate about the evil nasty arabs torturing poor innocent arabs

I say that Abu Omar, an Egyptian cleric has been tortured. He is an Egyptian, yes but that is how the story reads and where I got that information from.

That is the truth, fact!

I didn't say what you have just said, you say evil nasty Arabs?? Where did I say that??

I stated that much problems exist in the Middle-East and you will see what I highlighted in bold, many of those particular countries are at war and religion is behind that war.

The way you put it, sounds so different, and that is unfair to say the least.

Originally posted by spacebandit

You say you highlight the important words in bold, just to further get your point across

I did point out some important words

Originally posted by spacebandit

yet you ignore the most salient point

Abu Omar was kdnapped and tortured by.............

......................wait for it....................

.......................drum roll...................


AMERICANS


Clearly the strory wasn't

The story was very clear to me, but one of the Countries I chose NOT to include, was America, simply because my arguments over middle-eastern Countries and the religious drive, which dictates what the aggressors do, does not apply to America.

Don't use Catholic as your argument either.

It won't wash

Originally posted by spacebandit

enough for you to understand it before you used it as another excuse to attack non-white people en masse - again

That is ridiculous. Read my post first before looking at my past history which is tarnished with angels if you look with both eyes

I didn't say ANYTHING in this thread which even slightly bears in that direction.

Originally posted by spacebandit

I have re-printed the important points here, the ones you ignored, and emboldened the important parts that show your argument for what it is - another blanket racist attack performed by cherry picking detail

I picked out words which I felt were necessary to point out Spacebandit. They are Countries, Places, Organizations, etc.. You can point out something else if you wish?

This is in relation to War and watching the news can certainly make anyone realise what is going on in the World.

Some people wonder why these wars keep going on?

Why are they continually fighting and killing?

I am pointing out what drives those who wish to war.

I have just pointed the Arrow again, that's all...

Originally posted by spacebandit

and hoping no-one would notice

Well you have pointed out some strange word choices, in relation to what I have said???? doesn't surprise me though

Originally posted by spacebandit

Abu Omar was released a few months ago after almost four years in detention. He is currently at the centre of a court case in Italy where prosecutors allege he was snatched from a street in Milan by CIA and Italian security agents, then flown to Egypt to be tortured under the US extraordinary renditions programme.

Italians, Americans......

I am not choosing to point those countries out, because the whole article speaks for itself.

What I point out, in more significant, as it is stuff which you need to read between the lines to understand.

Higher level thinkers








nodisharmony

[spacebandit]

Originally posted by nodisharmony
[
Italians, Americans......

I am not choosing to point those countries out, because the whole article speaks for itself.

What I point out, in more significant, as it is stuff which you need to read between the lines to understand.

Higher level thinkers

nodisharmony

I did read between the lines and understood your post perfectly


In summary :


You created a thread designed to condemn arabs for practicing torturing , when in fact the torturers of the piece you rely on were American.

It was a pack of lies, disingenuos and misleading beyond accidental.

It was racist, and once again you make a post attacking arabs, as you did over in the moslem thread about womens subjugation that YOU also started, and yet refuse to attack the westerners actually responsible for the very crimes you are condemning in the piece you use to illustrate your point.

Lies
Damned lies
and
Racism


That is you in a nutshell

[nodisharmony]

Originally posted by spacebandit


In summary

You make a thread about arabs torturing arabs

This is an article from a well known Newspaper. Actually quite recent and very much in the News.

The thread came about, because I felt it was a good story to read and know about.

It concerns (Abu Omar, an Egyptian cleric) and what he went through and the story which followed

Originally posted by spacebandit

But the story you use most to illustrate your point is actually about americans torturing an arab

Details, Details, what of it?

This all comes about from Wars which come about by certain individuals from "Guess where?"

"Religion" and "Fanatics". I don't point the finger at the USA that much, because "Religion" is not the basis for War from the superpower, is it?

Originally posted by spacebandit

I did read between the lines and understood your post perfectly

You created a thread designed to condemn arabs for practicing torturing , when in fact the torturers of the piece you rely on were American.

It was a pack of lies, disingenuos and misleading beyond accidental.

The article is very clear and concise, or are you doubting Abu's word?

I wanted some to read between the lines, as the story unfolds a certain way, but doesn't really speak what it needs to speak, if you get my meaning?

Nothing Racial about that. It is just certain individuals who want War. Thousands, I believe

Originally posted by spacebandit

It was racist

If you read the article as being that way, then it is hardly the fault of Abu, now, is it?

Originally posted by spacebandit

once again you make a post attacking arabs, as you did over in the moslem thread about womens subjugation that YOU also started

I have opened up a thread about "Abu", and his account of what happened to him and his whole account of what happened.

The attacking of Arabs is something which is printed in Newspapers, as some of those start Wars and join in Wars, so naturally, they will have some resistance from their enemies.

There is a few enemies, isn't there?

The ones who wish to war are looking for them.

Originally posted by spacebandit

and yet refuse to attack the westerners actually responsible for the very crimes you are condemning in the piece you use to illustrate your point.

"Westerners" sometimes, have to clear up the mess which other invaders start in the first place.

If a middle-eastern country wishes to wage War, then it goes on for ages, perhaps a Westerner may choose to help, in a way which you may not like personally.

The face of War is always the same, but the Wars seem to be in the middle-east, and that is where the main arrow is pointing.

If you can see it

Originally posted by spacebandit

Lies
Damned lies
and
Racism

If you wish to criticise the article, then fair enough.

But those five words above, don't really do much. Further clarification from a critic would make anyone reading this understand the full picture, eh

Originally posted by spacebandit

That is you in a nutshell

Typical response, in attacking form, once again







nodisharmony

[spacebandit]

Originally posted by nodisharmony

This is an article from a well known Newspaper. Actually quite recent and very much in the News.

The thread came about, because I felt it was a good story to read and know about.

It concerns (Abu Omar, an Egyptian cleric) and what he went through and the story which followed

Details, Details, what of it?

This all comes about from Wars which come about by certain individuals from "Guess where?"

"Religion" and "Fanatics". I don't point the finger at the USA that much, because "Religion" is not the basis for War from the superpower, is it?

The article is very clear and concise, or are you doubting Abu's word?

I wanted some to read between the lines, as the story unfolds a certain way, but doesn't really speak what it needs to speak, if you get my meaning?

Nothing Racial about that. It is just certain individuals who want War. Thousands, I believe

If you read the article as being that way, then it is hardly the fault of Abu, now, is it?

I have opened up a thread about "Abu", and his account of what happened to him and his whole account of what happened.

The attacking of Arabs is something which is printed in Newspapers, as some of those start Wars and join in Wars, so naturally, they will have some resistance from their enemies.

There is a few enemies, isn't there?

The ones who wish to war are looking for them.

"Westerners" sometimes, have to clear up the mess which other invaders start in the first place.

If a middle-eastern country wishes to wage War, then it goes on for ages, perhaps a Westerner may choose to help, in a way which you may not like personally.

The face of War is always the same, but the Wars seem to be in the middle-east, and that is where the main arrow is pointing.

If you can see it

If you wish to criticise the article, then fair enough.

But those five words above, don't really do much. Further clarification from a critic would make anyone reading this understand the full picture, eh

Typical response, in attacking form, once again

nodisharmony

Sophistry from you again...

Lets clear things up, for you specially, as anyone else reading this thread can no doubt comprehend it :



Edited by Sunny_01 - heated debate is fine but calling other forum members is not - if this continues a warning will be issued


You have once again confirmed the context in which you made the post - ignore the AMERICAN torture that you not only made the initial post about, ignoring the american acts of course but lay the blame for them on other arabs, and then expanded upon it in a reply and specifically blamed arabs for it.

bait and switch - in your own thread multiple times

Your own response to being caught out that americans did the torturing and not arabs as you claimed

Originally posted by nodisharmony

Details, Details, what of it?

shows your true intent

Lies
Damned Lies
and Racism............Fits you like a glove


You have no real opinion or judgement, just cut and paste attempts at shock and awe that you are unable to sustain or justify when questioned on it, you can't argue your point - you are incapable of making one yourself without a hollywood movie to assist you.




When the judgement's weak,
The prejudice is strong.

Kane O'Hara

[nodisharmony]

Originally posted by spacebandit

You have once again confirmed the context in which you made the post - ignore the AMERICAN torture that you not only made the initial post about, ignoring the american acts of course but lay the blame for them on other arabs, and then expanded upon it in a reply and specifically blamed arabs for it.

bait and switch - in your own thread multiple times

Your own response to being caught out that americans did the torturing and not arabs as you claimed

I have said, that you need to read between the lines and to be quite honest, if a couple of American's or more decide to do a terrible act, then they will have been instructed to do that.

But it all leads to the points I am making, that the Wars which are religion-motivated are happening in the middle-east right now and Abu is not from the West, is he??

So, why torture him?

For fun, or part of something much bigger.

It all points in the middle-eastern direction and the News on our TV screens is proof enough, but you keep blaming the West?? That I can't understand.

No patrotism and looking at America in a very bad light.

So, perhaps you always join the winning side? I can't believe the weak-mindnedness

Just because the Wars go on forever and life is so cheap, "So they say!!!", I guess that makes a difference for middle-easterns, or NOT? Where life seems cheap, from their point of view.....This is the argument, ya'know

and what about suicide bombers??

Now that is something very bad and almost unbelievable

shows your true intent

Lies
Damned Lies
and Racism............Fits you like a glove


You have no real opinion or judgement, just cut and paste attempts at shock and awe that you are unable to sustain or justify when questioned on it, you can't argue your point - you are incapable of making one yourself without a hollywood movie to assist you.




When the judgement's weak,
The prejudice is strong.

Kane O'Hara

I don't cut & paste my replies to you or any other member, I don't need to or even attempt to, as I can't mind-read what replies I shall receive?? So that clears that assumption of yours, right up

As for judgement, i can certainly make that and quite easily, the evidence speaks for itself

The Hollywood movie, "Not Without My Daughter", was in another thread.

You are getting mixed up, as this thread proves.






nodisharmony

[spacebandit]

Originally posted by nodisharmony

I have said, that you need to read between the lines and to be quite honest, if a couple of American's or more decide to do a terrible act, then they will have been instructed to do that.

But it all leads to the points I am making, that the Wars which are religion-motivated are happening in the middle-east right now and Abu is not from the West, is he??

So, why torture him?

For fun, or part of something much bigger.

It all points in the middle-eastern direction and the News on our TV screens is proof enough, but you keep blaming the West?? That I can't understand.

No patrotism and looking at America in a very bad light.

So, perhaps you always join the winning side? I can't believe the weak-mindnedness

Just because the Wars go on forever and life is so cheap, "So they say!!!", I guess that makes a difference for middle-easterns, or NOT? Where life seems cheap, from their point of view.....This is the argument, ya'know

and what about suicide bombers??

Now that is something very bad and almost unbelievable

I don't cut & paste my replies to you or any other member, I don't need to or even attempt to, as I can't mind-read what replies I shall receive?? So that clears that assumption of yours, right up

As for judgement, i can certainly make that and quite easily, the evidence speaks for itself

The Hollywood movie, "Not Without My Daughter", was in another thread.

You are getting mixed up, as this thread proves.


nodisharmony

Once again your comprehension level fails abysmally, you seem to have an almost autistic obsession with literal interpretation. Which is quite hilarious considering that you claim people need to read between the lines of your posts to understand your meaning.

No confusion on my part, unfortunately for you.

No mix up on my part - you really should get someone to read to you if you have THAT much trouble comprehending,

So you now excuse amercas torture policy thusly

Originally posted by nodisharmony
if a couple of American's or more decide to do a terrible act

More proof that you do not have the remotest clue what you are talking about.

Torture is now enshrined in American Foreign Policy

America no longer adheres to the Geneva Convention

Americans who torture are now protected by their government from prosecution under Human Rights law, as torture of suspects, without charge and without evidence - on the word of a single paid informer is now US policy.

And Americans can kidnap anyone of any nationiality and torture them in camps outside of the US - they do not have to provide any evidence, you can be held indefinitely, and you have no legal recourse, and those who kidnapped you will never be brought to justice should it turn out that you are innocent and have a name that is a bit like someone they may be searching for or if someone you don't like drops a dime on you to homeland security to get rid of you - you would become a "ghost detainee" with no rights.


Amnesty International states that 90% of ghost detainees were taken on the word of paid informants, in almost all cases on the word of a single paid informant -

And you -

it is now abundantly clear exactly what you are, not that proof was needed

[nodisharmony]

Originally posted by spacebandit


You have once again confirmed the context in which you made the post - ignore the AMERICAN torture that you not only made the initial post about, ignoring the american acts of course but lay the blame for them on other arabs, and then expanded upon it in a reply and specifically blamed arabs for it.

bait and switch - in your own thread multiple times

Your own response to being caught out that americans did the torturing and not arabs as you claimed

You have made your observations on the article at hand.

I am well aware of what the article says, as it is written in English and have read it three times.

I have looked at the person who has been tortured and instead of repeating what the article says like you are doing, I am pointing out the other side, bit by bit.

It is silly to re-point-out what is already written, isn't it

Originally posted by spacebandit

shows your true intent

Lies
Damned Lies
and Racism............Fits you like a glove

You just don't see it, do you?

There are a few threads pointing to the same thing, just like the threads about Jews.

I am NOT pointing out that, I am pointing a finger at a massive percentage of the World population who are fighting in the same of religion and making people in the UK frightened.

Suicide bombers, well, what kind of people do stuff like that generally and why does it happen?

War is on, because people wish to fight and War.

This leads to articles like this happening.

If the Americans have done something bad in this instance and that is only a minority, by the way, then they will have a real reason.

The USA don't do things for nothing.

War in these Countries makes the USA look to the East(Middle)

Originally posted by spacebandit

You have no real opinion or judgement, just cut and paste attempts at shock and awe that you are unable to sustain or justify when questioned on it, you can't argue your point - you are incapable of making one yourself without a hollywood movie to assist you.




When the judgement's weak,
The prejudice is strong.

Kane O'Hara

I am NOT repeating myself in regards to Cut & Paste accusations from yourself, that is becoming boring

Once again, the "Not without my daughter" situation is in another thread...

Originally posted by spacebandit

Once again your comprehension level fails abysmally, you seem to have an almost autistic obsession with literal interpretation. Which is quite hilarious considering that you claim people need to read between the lines of your posts to understand your meaning.

No confusion on my part, unfortunately for you.

No mix up on my part - you really should get someone to read to you if you have THAT much trouble comprehending,

So you now excuse amercas torture policy thusly

I don't use a lot of long words to state my view on things. It makes it easier to read by almost anyone of all ages.

Regarding "autistic", well, that is laughable

and the rest of those criticism's I can't be bothered with answering...

Originally posted by spacebandit

More proof that you do not have the remotest clue what you are talking about.

Torture is now enshrined in American Foreign Policy

America no longer adheres to the Geneva Convention

Americans who torture are now protected by their government from prosecution under Human Rights law, as torture of suspects, without charge and without evidence - on the word of a single paid informer is now US policy.

And Americans can kidnap anyone of any nationiality and torture them in camps outside of the US - they do not have to provide any evidence, you can be held indefinitely, and you have no legal recourse, and those who kidnapped you will never be brought to justice should it turn out that you are innocent and have a name that is a bit like someone they may be searching for or if someone you don't like drops a dime on you to homeland security to get rid of you - you would become a "ghost detainee" with no rights.


Amnesty International states that 90% of ghost detainees were taken on the word of paid informants, in almost all cases on the word of a single paid informant -

Originally posted by spacebandit

And you -

it is now abundantly clear exactly what you are, not that proof was needed

America this, America that.....What do you know??

I guess you found two or three articles in a Newspaper to get your assumptions of how the USA works in relation to the Geneva Convention and the rest...

It is your opinion of the situation which you read into.

Luckily, I don't bother to care really

Just like Jade Goody articles, there is always more to it







nodisharmony

[spacebandit]

Originally posted by nodisharmony
[America this, America that.....What do you know??

I guess you found two or three articles in a Newspaper to get your assumptions of how the USA works in relation to the Geneva Convention and the rest...

It is your opinion of the situation which you read into.

Luckily, I don't bother to care really

Just like Jade Goody articles, there is always more to it

nodisharmony

Clearly I know more than you about America's foreign policy

I have actually read more than two or three articles - a lot more - add at least one book a week though usually two, and not fiction either, which I need to do for work, if there are no books then I get to wade through a good number of reports, all political publications - which I then summarise, which is what I do for a living.

You see that is how I form my opinions, by reading a hell of a lot and then forming said opinion.

Clearly I know more than you about the United States decision not to adhere to articles of the Geneva Convention.
I could give you the USG publication numbers for the Congressional Minutes where the decision was taken to exclude the US military from articles of the Geneva Convention - but as you said, you don't bother to care. You just bother to spout racist and xenophobic bile without the knowledge to even attempt back up your "arguments"

My opinion is based upon a lot of reading, contacts for work and conversations with other people, I have a lot of contact with Americans on a day to day basis, I do not base my opinions on some 3rd rate hollywood movie I caught on the Hallmark channel or Living TV ,


and....


Actually you DO care.

You have been shown up to be ignorant of the very things you start threads to pontificate about, the very threads you start up to attack "arabs" and non - whites in general, not only that but you been shown to twist and distort facts, unfortunately for you - you were caught out and it wasn't at all difficult.

Carry On

[nodisharmony]

Originally posted by spacebandit


Clearly I know more than you about America's foreign policy

I have actually read more than two or three articles - a lot more - add at least one book a week though usually two, and not fiction either, which I need to do for work, if there are no books then I get to wade through a good number of reports, all political publications - which I then summarise, which is what I do for a living.

You see that is how I form my opinions, by reading a hell of a lot and then forming said opinion.

Clearly I know more than you about the United States decision not to adhere to articles of the Geneva Convention.
I could give you the USG publication numbers for the Congressional Minutes where the decision was taken to exclude the US military from articles of the Geneva Convention - but as you said, you don't bother to care. You just bother to spout racist and xenophobic bile without the knowledge to even attempt back up your "arguments"

My opinion is based upon a lot of reading, contacts for work and conversations with other people, I have a lot of contact with Americans on a day to day basis, I do not base my opinions on some 3rd rate hollywood movie I caught on the Hallmark channel or Living TV

Knowledge is everything and that is more than handy when you are debating with someone who has less knowledge than yourself.

If a subject matter arises and you can show an article from either the media or even from something more substantial, then that will be looked at and debated upon.

Your experience and knowledge of War and otherwise is useful, but sometimes, it can drive you insane with negativity.

Regarding the film from the Hallmark channel, actually, I have the video, but that is neither-here-nor-there, is it

It was worth a mention, as it was based on truth, but naturally, it will be glamourised some what and I understand that and certainly don't look at each part and say it is just like that in Iran word-for-word, scene-by-scene..

BUT, I do take issue, that you continually look to the West and also, accuse myself of picking on Arabs, when I am pointing out where the Wars are going on & the people who are residing in those Countries and are fighting against the USA, because of problems which they caused in the first place.

There are fanatical people there and the USA had to look at that, especially with Afghanistan and Iraq.

and....


Actually you DO care.

You have been shown up to be ignorant of the very things you start threads to pontificate about, the very threads you start up to attack "arabs" and non - whites in general, not only that but you been shown to twist and distort facts, unfortunately for you - you were caught out and it wasn't at all difficult.

Carry On

I DO care about "reducing the hate", which is my aim and also, pointing out stuff which I consider "unfair" and also, name & shame the agressors.

I look to the middle-east, as that is where the trouble starts and continues and Religion is 100% behind that....

The rest of your accusations are laughable








nodisharmony

[rex3]

nodisharmony i dont think what you say washes with me
after saying IRAQ STARTED THE WAR


that is by far a fascet to your opinions, and Iraq as Nazis yeah right, i think youv been reading too much hate

[nodisharmony]

Originally posted by rex3
nodisharmony i dont think what you say washes with me
after saying IRAQ STARTED THE WAR


that is by far a fascet to your opinions, and Iraq as Nazis yeah right, i think youv been reading too much hate

Stop mixing comments from other threads Rex

I have already answered that in your new Iraq thread, with your "poll" options, haven't I

Iraq made the threat, end of......

_______________________________________
We can always make "similars" and the Nazi occupation is one of them, isn't it....

Hitler ruled and the Germans followed, but the Jews.......Well, they were expendable to him and also his followers, Millions of them......

Hatred exists, we are debating War, and with War comes hate, right







nodisharmony

[rex3]

Originally posted by nodisharmony

Iraq made the threat, end of......

nodisharmony

they never did any thing like that, and WAR started when US Invaded so The WAR WAS STARTED BY THE AMERICANS.

[nodisharmony]

Originally posted by rex3

they never did any thing like that, and WAR started when US Invaded so The WAR WAS STARTED BY THE AMERICANS.

http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/foru....php?tid=65680







nodisharmony

[spacebandit]

Originally posted by nodisharmony
Iraq made the threat, end of......

nodisharmony

No, the invasion of Iraq was something that had been desired by Neocons for years, after they felt Bush Snr dropped the ball in Gulf War One.

In 1998 / 99 the Project For A New American Century [PNAC} produced a series of reports which they published and presented to the then US Administration [Bill Clinton as president], which called specifically for the invasion of Iraq in order to secure future American Oil Supplies, it specifically recommended that "an excuse can be found" to invade.

the whole thing was set up, and notified in advance, some of us where not suprised by the unfolding of events after 9/11, blaming Iraq was utterly predictable, in fact it was predicted.

It has been the NeoCon desire to create a Pax Americana in the Middle East, for guaranteed US fuel supplies and for strategic military bases to control shipping.

Originally posted by nodisharmony
BUT, I do take issue, that you continually look to the West and also, accuse myself of picking on Arabs, when I am pointing out where the Wars are going on & the people who are residing in those Countries and are fighting against the USA, because of problems which they caused in the first place.

they caused it ???? - well if you count happening to be born in a country that sits on top of oil fields "cause" then we are in agreement.

as any casual observer knows, if you have oil you HAVE to be Americas friend, if not - watch out. we currently have religious [christian] and other leaders in the United States calling for the removal, by assassination if necessary of Hugo Chavez, the president Of Venezuela.

His crime ?

He won't play ball, will not kowtow to the Bush regime, and when he caught them trying to destabilise his government for the benefit of their own oil contracts he nationalised his countries oil fields and changed his oil trading currency from dollars to euros.

ts all about the oil
It WAS always about the oil
It always will be about the oil

If not why haven't we invaded North Korea to get rid of a mad man ?

Why havent we invaded Zimbabwe to get rid of a madman, - I'll help you on this one, No Oil = not cost effective.

[spacebandit]

Originally posted by nodisharmony

Knowledge is everything and that is more than handy when you are debating with someone who has less knowledge than yourself.

Thats rich, considering your condescending tone towards people, who you claim don't understand your rantings as they need to read between the lines more.

Knowledge is useful, especially for dealing with the ignorant, stupid and ill informed who are spreading hatred by perpetuating untruths - which is what you are doing.

Originally posted by nodisharmony
Your experience and knowledge of War and otherwise is useful, but sometimes, it can drive you insane with negativity.

You call it insane with negativity, you only do that as you have been at the receiving end of your own ignorance. I call it being informed and making my own opinions, not cutting and pasting them and then embarrassing myself when I cannot justify what I have posted, I leave you to do that - you do it very well.