[Locke.]

Originally posted by Markymark

This is sports personality of the YEAR, i.e. 2008. You're not actually being serious though, are you?

It's not about how many trophies you win though, it's about performance ect. And last season Gerrard was great [as usual]. Liverpool just had a bad season overall. It will be a different story this season though.

[Lauren]

Originally posted by Shaun

Grr, you make a good argument

I don't know the full extent of her disability, but basically she has a prosthetic leg, yes? It doesn't seem to have affected her too much =\

Once you lose a leg you have to learn how to move it whilst missing hundreds of thousands of nerves you once had. In theory, it's like learning to move again, and make sure your brain sends messages to the leg to move.

Also, especially in swimming, the prosthetic leg has significantly less power because you only control the thigh bit, so you have to use more energy on the boost.

I'm not saying Paralympians deserve anything more than able bodied Olympians. That's unfair. I just don't think they should be ignored completely just because something natural holds them back from being "world class", when they still put as much effort and determination in.

Edit: Oh also, with a prosthetic leg you also get "phantom pains" which is excruciating cramps and pains in the nerves of where the amputation took place. To say that it hasn't affected her that much lays testament to why I think she's a great athlete.

[Novo]

Originally posted by David_Purdy

It's not about how many trophies you win though, it's about performance ect. And last season Gerrard was great [as usual]. Liverpool just had a bad season overall. It will be a different story this season though.

tbh gerrard is the best player in the world

and you can NOT buy what he has

passion loyalty talent offensive deffensive

the full package

i take my hat off to him

he's the best ive seen


it's a pity players like ronaldo dont learn from him

[Markymark]

Originally posted by David_Purdy

It's not about how many trophies you win though, it's about performance ect. And last season Gerrard was great [as usual]. Liverpool just had a bad season overall. It will be a different story this season though.

He's (or anyone else) got no chance unless he puts in some great performances for his country.

[Lauren]

Originally posted by Markymark

I misunderstood you. That's a totally different situation as a lot of the disabled athletes have been disabled all their life but yes, I think a lot of them could compete after training for a year or 2.

Not in the higher factor categories such as amputations, where, for example... our rowing gold medallist was.

Like I said to Shaun - I'm not arguing that they deserve this award more than normal olympians, or that they put more effort in or anything. I simply believe they exert as much determination and it's only the disability disadvantage that hinders them, rather than a lack of effort.

[Markymark]

Originally posted by Lauren

Not in the higher factor categories such as amputations, where, for example... our rowing gold medallist was.

Like I said to Shaun - I'm not arguing that they deserve this award more than normal olympians, or that they put more effort in or anything. I simply believe they exert as much determination and it's only the disability disadvantage that hinders them, rather than a lack of effort.

Determination yes but as for natural skill and talent, it's just impossible to tell if they have as much, but it would be lower in most cases simply because there's a smaller pool of people to choose from.

[Lauren]

Originally posted by Markymark

Determination yes but as for natural skill and talent, it's just impossible to tell if they have as much, but it would be lower in most cases simply because there's a smaller pool of people to choose from.

Sports personality of the year is about determination and effort, not natural skill. Plus, why should they be disadvantaged just because we "can't tell" if their skill is natural or not.

[Markymark]

Originally posted by Lauren

Sports personality of the year is about determination and effort, not natural skill. Plus, why should they be disadvantaged just because we "can't tell" if their skill is natural or not.

Is that in the rules any where? I know local Sunday League football players who put in more effort than any over-paid Premiership player. More people are always going to vote for Olympic athletes because that's what they like to watch and it's the peak of human sporting achievement.

[Lauren]

Originally posted by Markymark

Is that in the rules any where? I know local Sunday League football players who put in more effort than any over-paid Premiership player. More people are always going to vote for Olympic athletes because that's what they like to watch and it's the peak of human sporting achievement.

No it's not in the rules, but general rule of thumb is that it applauds spotsmanship and determination.

[NettoSuperstar!]

Originally posted by Markymark

There's no reason why our 8 time world tiddlywink champion shouldn't win either, that's better than winning 5 medals.

oh so a paralympic athlete is comparable to a tiddly wink champion when put up against an olympic athlete??? Darren Kennys times werent far off Olympic gold standard actually!!

[NettoSuperstar!]

And I would say they do have natural talent not that it bloody matters! Or are you saying any old disabled person could get to the paralympics? I dont think so

[Novo]

Originally posted by bbE
And I would say they do have natural talent not that it bl***y matters! Or are you saying any old disabled person could get to the paralympics? I dont think so

yes they could

[Lauren]

Originally posted by andy-dale-win

yes they could

You just voided all the good debate and serious points in this thread with that.

It shows ignorance. Utter ignorance.

1) Not all disabled people have the capabilities to move their arms/legs when they want to. Saying they could easily cycle/row is an insult and frankly quite upsetting.

2) Some disabled people JUST CAN'T. It's not that they don't want to. It's because they can't. Their body won't let them. Perhaps they have exposed nerve endings that means they can't have aesthetic legs. Perhaps they have damage to the spinal cord which means they can't move specific parts of their body.

3) Furthermore, if someone is suddenly struck down with a debilitating illness/accident meaning they're disabled for some reason (whether this be an amputation... sudden blindness etc) it's a mental strain to even see the point in life, nevermind get the determination to leave your bed. Then it takes hours of training a day for those with an amputation to even learn to WALK again. Years and years of just learning to walk can mentally scar people. Plus on top of that they have to train for years of running. Not just running, but running which naturally causes excruciating pain.

And you say they can all do it? Do me a favour.

[NettoSuperstar!]

Originally posted by andy-dale-win

yes they could

I dont think so. It takes the same talent/determination (If not more) for someone with a disability to train to that standard, which as I shall repeat is not far off olympic standard

[Novo]

am only winding you up

lol

you took the bite!!!!

[Lauren]

Originally posted by andy-dale-win
am only winding you up

lol

you took the bite!!!!

That's because it's an absolutely sick thing to say, even in jest. It actually upset me.

[Novo]

Originally posted by Lauren

That's because it's an absolutely sick thing to say, even in jest. It actually upset me.

i guess am very very sorry

[Lauren]

Originally posted by andy-dale-win

i guess am very very sorry

No it's ok, I didn't mean to make it sound like you weren't entitled to your own opinion it was just that one line upset me slightly.

I should've took it as a joke though.

[Markymark]

Originally posted by bbE

oh so a paralympic athlete is comparable to a tiddly wink champion when put up against an olympic athlete??? Darren Kennys times werent far off Olympic gold standard actually!!

What I'm saying is if you want to include little-known sports few people are interested there are thousands of people who dedicate so much time, effort and money into them that we don't hear much about. Tiddly winks may be one of them.

I used to watch speedway and Mark Loram became world champion in 2000, the only British champion in the last 16 years. All his heart and soul went into that, it was the biggest achievement of his life in what is a very dangerous sport. Yet I doubt most people on here have even heard of him.

It'll never happen though, sports personality is always going to be dominated by football, boxing, horse racing, cricket, rugby, golf, F1, tennis and Olympic gold medalists.

[NettoSuperstar!]

I dont think the Paralympics is that little known or should be even remotely compared to tiddlybleedinwinks

[Markymark]

Originally posted by bbE
I dont think the Paralympics is that little known or should be even remotely compared to tiddlybleedinwinks

Read my edit, I don't care about tiddlywinks.

[Novo]

Originally posted by bbE
I dont think the Paralympics is that little known or should be even remotely compared to tiddlybleedinwinks

tiddlywinks

[NettoSuperstar!]

you are basically saying that if we're going to include the paralympics then we may aswell include tiddlywinks and the like

[Markymark]

Originally posted by bbE
you are basically saying that if we're going to include the paralympics then we may aswell include tiddlywinks and the like

All sports should be considered. You're basically saying Paralympic athletes should get a sympathy vote.

[NettoSuperstar!]

Originally posted by Markymark

All sports should be considered. You're basically saying Paralympic athletes should get a sympathy vote.

No im saying all sports should be considered and Darren Kenny won 4 golds! and a silver!