[MTVN]

The CIA carried out "brutal" interrogations of al-Qaeda suspects in the years after the 9/11 attacks on the US, a US Senate report has said.

The summary of the report, compiled by Democrats on the Senate Intelligence Committee, said that the CIA misled Americans about what it was doing.

The information the CIA collected this way failed to secure information that foiled any threats, the report said.

In a statement, the CIA insisted that the interrogations did help save lives.

"The intelligence gained from the programme was critical to our understanding of al-Qaeda and continues to inform our counterterrorism efforts to this day," Director John Brennan said in a statement.

However, the CIA said it acknowledged that there were mistakes in the programme, especially early on when it was unprepared for the scale of the operation to detain and interrogate prisoners.

The programme - known internally as the Rendition, Detention and Interrogation programme - took place from 2002-07, during the presidency of George W Bush.

Suspects were interrogated using methods such as waterboarding, slapping, humiliation, exposure to cold and sleep deprivation.

'Significant damage'
Introducing the report to the Senate, Intelligence Committee Chairwoman Dianne Feinstein described the CIA's actions as a stain on US history.

"The release of this 500-page summary cannot remove that stain, but it can and does say to our people and the world that America is big enough to admit when it's wrong and confident enough to learn from its mistakes," she said.

"Under any common meaning of the term, CIA detainees were tortured," she added.

Earlier, President Obama responded to the report, saying the methods used were inconsistent with US values.

"These techniques did significant damage to America's standing in the world and made it harder to pursue our interests with allies and partners," he said in a statement.

Reacting to the release of the report summary, the Senate Republican leaders insisted that the methods used helped in the capture of important suspects and the killing of Osama bin Laden.

"Claims included in this report that assert the contrary are simply wrong," Senators Mitch McConnell and Saxby Chambliss said in a joint statement.

The Senate committee's report runs to more than 6,000 pages, drawing on huge quantities of evidence, but it remains classified and only a 480-page summary has been released.

Mr Obama halted the CIA interrogation programme when he took office in 2009.

Earlier this year, he said that in his view the methods used to question al-Qaeda prisoners amounted to torture.

Publication of the report had been delayed amid disagreements in Washington over what should be made public.

Security was increased at US facilities around the world ahead of publication.

Embassies and other sites were taking precautions amid "some indications" of "greater risk", a White House spokesman said.

US Defence Secretary Chuck Hagel said he had ordered all top US military commanders to be on high alert.

Its main points include the following:

- At no time did coercive interrogation techniques lead of collection of intelligence on imminent threats

- None of 20 cases of counterterrorism "successes" attributed to the techniques led to unique or otherwise unavailable intelligence

- The CIA misled politicians and public, giving inaccurate information to obtain approval for using techniques

- The CIA claimed falsely that no senators had objected to the programme.

- Management of the programme was deeply flawed, for example the operation of the second detention facility, known as COBALT

- At least 26 of 119 known detainees in custody during the life of the programme were wrongfully held, and many held for months longer than they should have been

- Aggressive techniques were used on suspects from the start, despite CIA claims that interrogations would begin with less coercive methods

- Methods included sleep deprivation for up to 180 hours, often standing or in painful positions

- Waterboarding was physically harmful to prisoners, causing convulsions and vomiting

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-30401100

Is it any wonder that a lot of people see the West as mistrustful hypocrites when this sh*t gets carried out in secret and then explicitly lied about? Well done to those Senators who brought it to light

[Livia]

I think it's dangerous to continually hold the security services to public account. It's hard to conceive the weight of responsibility on the security services in all countries fighting terrorism and reports like this do nothing but aid terrorists and support for terrorists. Waterboarding caused convulsions and vomiting... well at least their heads weren't hacked off.

The most telling sentence from that whole report for me is this:
"The intelligence gained from the programme was critical to our understanding of al-Qaeda and continues to inform our counterterrorism efforts to this day," Director John Brennan said in a statement."

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Livia

I think it's dangerous to continually hold the security services to public account. It's hard to conceive the weight of responsibility on the security services in all countries fighting terrorism and reports like this do nothing but aid terrorists and support for terrorists. Waterboarding caused convulsions and vomiting... well at least their heads weren't hacked off.

The most telling sentence from that whole report for me is this:
"The intelligence gained from the programme was critical to our understanding of al-Qaeda and continues to inform our counterterrorism efforts to this day," Director John Brennan said in a statement."

Can't help but feel like those are the empty words of a Director who needs to cover his ass though, I'd place more weight in the findings of a transparent and deeply researched report. I also doubt the US security services would be so understanding if a report surfaced like this about the Russian security services.

Fact is you cannot claim to be a beacon of human rights on the surface while carrying out stuff like this clandestinely. You either work within the law or you're above it. And when you are above it you can no longer preach it.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by The Geordie Jesus

Can't help but feel like those are the empty words of a Director who needs to cover his ass though, I'd place more weight in the findings of a transparent and deeply researched report. I also doubt the US security services would be so understanding if a report surfaced like this about the Russian security services.

Fact is you cannot claim to be a beacon of human rights on the surface while carrying out stuff like this clandestinely. You either work within the law or you're above it. And when you are above it you can no longer preach it.

It's hard to be a beacon of human rights when people are trying to blow bits off of civilians in your country, or fly planes into your buildings, blow up buses and trains etc, and you think there might be something you can do to keep people safe. I really believe that if there are deeply researched reports about organisations like the CIA they need to be kept out of the public domain. If we want people to work to keep us safe in the face of appalling acts of terrorism, we have to trust them to do their job. I'm not saying they should not be accountable to their own government, but they should not have to account to the public because in the end it'll tie their hands in a way that would threaten national security.

[Nedusa]

If my family were in the target area of a terrorist attack and I had one of the terrorists in custody , I would use all and I mean ALL methods to extract the information I needed to save innocent lives.




.

[Toy Soldier]

I think the most hilarious part of this entire fiasco is that we're genuinely supposed to believe that the White House "wasn't told about it all and didn't know about it". . That is a rib-tickler.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Livia

It's hard to be a beacon of human rights when people are trying to blow bits off of civilians in your country, or fly planes into your buildings, blow up buses and trains etc, and you think there might be something you can do to keep people safe. I really believe that if there are deeply researched reports about organisations like the CIA they need to be kept out of the public domain. If we want people to work to keep us safe in the face of appalling acts of terrorism, we have to trust them to do their job. I'm not saying they should not be accountable to their own government, but they should not have to account to the public because in the end it'll tie their hands in a way that would threaten national security.

In general I think I agree with you, I'm happy to not know what our secret services are doing but we are supposed to trust them with that secrecy. They are supposed to use it but not abuse it, and you are still supposed to continue to work within the parameters that your government sets and which your government claims to uphold. The CIA have abused their secrecy and I am fine with that being exposed.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Livia

I think it's dangerous to continually hold the security services to public account. It's hard to conceive the weight of responsibility on the security services in all countries fighting terrorism and reports like this do nothing but aid terrorists and support for terrorists. Waterboarding caused convulsions and vomiting... well at least their heads weren't hacked off.

The most telling sentence from that whole report for me is this:
"The intelligence gained from the programme was critical to our understanding of al-Qaeda and continues to inform our counterterrorism efforts to this day," Director John Brennan said in a statement."

You are so right Livia. This is just the kind of 'Bleeding Heart', 'Wishy Washy' crap that fuels these murdering bastards cause and gains them sympathy where there should never be any.

I question the motives and loyalty of those authors of this report because what purpose does it serve other than - as you say - evoke support for these Jihadist scum murderers. And what are the authors of this report expecting by publishing it? a slap on the back from Jihadi John & company for them playing 'the white man', followed by a ceasing of all further beheadings?

Desperate times call for desperate measures and these are desperate times. We are at war with sub-human terrorist monsters, and it is a war that we did not want and did not start, but it is a war we dare not lose, and therefore, anything we do to ensure that we win, is justified.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

If my family were in the target area of a terrorist attack and I had one of the terrorists in custody , I would use all and I mean ALL methods to extract the information I needed to save innocent lives.

.

[Kizzy]

Hang on, I thought it was well known that they used extreme techniques to extract information, isn't that what American dad is all about?

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

You are so right Livia. This is just the kind of 'Bleeding Heart', 'Wishy Washy' crap that fuels these murdering bastards cause and gains them sympathy where there should never be any.

I question the motives and loyalty of those authors of this report because what purpose does it serve other than - as you say - evoke support for these Jihadist scum murderers. And what are the authors of this report expecting by publishing it? a slap on the back from Jihadi John & company for them playing 'the white man', followed by a ceasing of all further beheadings?

Desperate times call for desperate measures and these are desperate times. We are at war with sub-human terrorist monsters, and it is a war that we did not want and did not start, but it is a war we dare not lose, and therefore, anything we do to ensure that we win, is justified.

This is nothing to do with ISIS, this is about the actions of the CIA 2002-2007 under a programme that Obama halted in 2009 because he realised it was not productive, it did not help with anything, and it completely flew in the face of everything that the US believes in and claims to uphold. This report shows that he was more right to do so than he probably realised at the time.

You are creating a false equivalence here between critics of CIA interrogation (let's call what it is though really - torture) and Isalmist-enablers. It's completely false. There is a way to combat extremism without resorting to torture. Many would say that there are much more effective ways and that torture actually doesn't help at all. Choose to disbelieve 500 pages of intensely researched evidence if you will, but if the report says CIA interrogation "failed to secure information that foiled any threats" then I'm not gonna blindly justify those methods.

Call me 'bleeding heart' and 'wishy washy' if you like but for all the warmongering rhetoric in the world this arbitrary and indiscriminate sh*t does not sit well with me and never will

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

If my family were in the target area of a terrorist attack and I had one of the terrorists in custody , I would use all and I mean ALL methods to extract the information I needed to save innocent lives.




.

Pretty much my take at present.

The anger I still feel as to those who murdered Lee Rigby and also these vile things from IS who are publicly humiliating and murdering innocent people.

It all just leaves me not caring a single bit as to how they are treated to get information that could help end their vile acts once and for all and protect innocent people from them and their like.

[GypsyGoth]

They tortured the guy who planned 911? I don't see the problem

[Tom4784]

My opinion pretty much completely coincides with MTVN's.

[arista]

[Is it any wonder that a lot of people see the West as mistrustful hypocrites]


Yes very much like the latest TV UK broadcast of Ch4HD Homeland episode


Sign Of The Times

[Creggle]

I bet it wasn't brutal enough, terrorists deserve nothing, they are below insects.

[MTVN]

Just heard John McCain welcoming the findings of this report. A passionate Republican who has always believed in America playing a strong military role in the world thinks that the CIA were out of order. Also someone who himself was subject to torture as a POW in Vietnam. An excerpt from his speech:

“Mr. President, I rise in support of the release – the long-delayed release – of the Senate Intelligence Committee’s summarized, unclassified review of the so-called ‘enhanced interrogation techniques’ that were employed by the previous administration to extract information from captured terrorists. It is a thorough and thoughtful study of practices that I believe not only failed their purpose – to secure actionable intelligence to prevent further attacks on the U.S. and our allies – but actually damaged our security interests, as well as our reputation as a force for good in the world.

“I believe the American people have a right – indeed, a responsibility – to know what was done in their name; how these practices did or did not serve our interests; and how they comported with our most important values.

“I commend Chairman Feinstein and her staff for their diligence in seeking a truthful accounting of policies I hope we will never resort to again. I thank them for persevering against persistent opposition from many members of the intelligence community, from officials in two administrations, and from some of our colleagues.

“The truth is sometimes a hard pill to swallow. It sometimes causes us difficulties at home and abroad. It is sometimes used by our enemies in attempts to hurt us. But the American people are entitled to it, nonetheless.

“They must know when the values that define our nation are intentionally disregarded by our security policies, even those policies that are conducted in secret. They must be able to make informed judgments about whether those policies and the personnel who supported them were justified in compromising our values; whether they served a greater good; or whether, as I believe, they stained our national honor, did much harm and little practical good.

In full here: http://www.mccain.senate.gov/public/...1-a58f984db996

So can we please stop with the straw man that to oppose terrorism you need to support the CIA's methods here; you don't.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by The Geordie Jesus

This is nothing to do with ISIS, this is about the actions of the CIA 2002-2007 under a programme that Obama halted in 2009 because he realised it was not productive, it did not help with anything, and it completely flew in the face of everything that the US believes in and claims to uphold. This report shows that he was more right to do so than he probably realised at the time.

You are creating a false equivalence here between critics of CIA interrogation (let's call what it is though really - torture) and Isalmist-enablers. It's completely false. There is a way to combat extremism without resorting to torture. Many would say that there are much more effective ways and that torture actually doesn't help at all. Choose to disbelieve 500 pages of intensely researched evidence if you will, but if the report says CIA interrogation "failed to secure information that foiled any threats" then I'm not gonna blindly justify those methods.

Call me 'bleeding heart' and 'wishy washy' if you like but for all the warmongering rhetoric in the world this arbitrary and indiscriminate sh*t does not sit well with me and never will

I don't recall calling you anything - I was referring to the report when I said that: "this is just the kind of 'Bleeding Heart', 'Wishy Washy' crap that fuels these murdering bastards cause and gains them sympathy where there should never be any." and it was addressed to Livia and not any kind of response to you.

But if you wish to so label yourself -- Don't let me stop you.

This is a democratic forum where all opinions are equally as welcome, so it is your prerogative to regard my views as 'warmongering rhetoric' and 'indiscriminate sh*t', but the fact that the latter does not sit well with you is unfortunately quite irrelevant as far as the validity of what I write is concerned.

As for "Nothing to do with ISIS" I never said it was, but your point is purely pedantic anyway, because the terrorism is the same, the 'cause' is the same, the bombings and murdering are the same, the names of the bombers and murdering bastards are the same - Ali, Aahmed, Aasif, Aasil (and we haven't moved from the letter 'A' yet) - only the names of the subhuman terrorist organisation changes.

As for your claim that: "There is a way to combat extremism without resorting to torture."

Perhaps you'd like to expound and outline just which "way" you allude to? How about we play fecking football for such vital information with Jihadi John? Perhaps we could use any of his innocent victim's severed heads as the football? First to three goals wins.

Again you have the God-given democratic right (for now, thanks to whatever it is that our security forces get up in private with terrorist murdering scumbags in order to protect our democratic way of life) to believe what you want. So when you state that you "are not gonna blindly justify those methods" because you believe the report and that the CIA interrogation "failed to secure information that foiled any threats", you are in order.

However, under the same God-given democratic rights, I have the prerogative to believe Director John Brennan when he states that: "The intelligence gained from the program was critical to our understanding of al-Qaeda and continues to inform our counter-terrorism efforts to this day."

You can take umbrage at my views and state that I am a warmonger, and I will state that it is people like you who need a reality check as to just what is happening in every country in this world with these inhuman, insane, evil. murdering dog turds, and your 'sense of PC fair play' is outdated, ludricous, and extremely dangerous.

Personally, this 'warmonger' could not give a flying feck as to just what any of the Security Services of the countries of the (still barely) 'Free' world get up to in order to extract information which may save lives and halt the March of Islamic Fundamentalism - and you can bet a £1.00 to a Dinar, that no matter what they get up to, it will pale into insignificance in comparison to the evil atrocities which these barbaric terrorist demons perpetrate daily.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Pretty much my take at present.

The anger I still feel as to those who murdered Lee Rigby and also these vile things from IS who are publicly humiliating and murdering innocent people.

It all just leaves me not caring a single bit as to how they are treated to get information that could help end their vile acts once and for all and protect innocent people from them and their like.

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

They watched too much Delta force.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Creggle

I bet it wasn't brutal enough, terrorists deserve nothing, they are below insects.

OK
so long as Everyone under the basement CIA cell
is Guilty of something
as some arrested had done nothing wrong at all

[Nedusa]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I don't recall calling you anything - I was referring to the report when I said that: "this is just the kind of 'Bleeding Heart', 'Wishy Washy' crap that fuels these murdering bastards cause and gains them sympathy where there should never be any." and it was addressed to Livia and not any kind of response to you.

But if you wish to so label yourself -- Don't let me stop you.

This is a democratic forum where all opinions are equally as welcome, so it is your prerogative to regard my views as 'warmongering rhetoric' and 'indiscriminate sh*t', but the fact that the latter does not sit well with you is unfortunately quite irrelevant as far as the validity of what I write is concerned.

As for "Nothing to do with ISIS" I never said it was, but your point is purely pedantic anyway, because the terrorism is the same, the 'cause' is the same, the bombings and murdering are the same, the names of the bombers and murdering bastards are the same - Ali, Aahmed, Aasif, Aasil (and we haven't moved from the letter 'A' yet) - only the names of the subhuman terrorist organisation changes.

As for your claim that: "There is a way to combat extremism without resorting to torture."

Perhaps you'd like to expound and outline just which "way" you allude to? How about we play fecking football for such vital information with Jihadi John? Perhaps we could use any of his innocent victim's severed heads as the football? First to three goals wins.

Again you have the God-given democratic right (for now, thanks to whatever it is that our security forces get up in private with terrorist murdering scumbags in order to protect our democratic way of life) to believe what you want. So when you state that you "are not gonna blindly justify those methods" because you believe the report and that the CIA interrogation "failed to secure information that foiled any threats", you are in order.

However, under the same God-given democratic rights, I have the prerogative to believe Director John Brennan when he states that: "The intelligence gained from the program was critical to our understanding of al-Qaeda and continues to inform our counter-terrorism efforts to this day."

You can take umbrage at my views and state that I am a warmonger, and I will state that it is people like you who need a reality check as to just what is happening in every country in this world with these inhuman, insane, evil. murdering dog turds, and your 'sense of PC fair play' is outdated, ludricous, and extremely dangerous.

Personally, this 'warmonger' could not give a flying feck as to just what any of the Security Services of the countries of the (still barely) 'Free' world get up to in order to extract information which may save lives and halt the March of Islamic Fundamentalism - and you can bet a £1.00 to a Dinar, that no matter what they get up to, it will pale into insignificance in comparison to the evil atrocities which these barbaric terrorist demons perpetrate daily.

Agree totally..........What people fail to realise is that there is and has been for decades a dirty war going on between the major security services and the main terrorist organisations.

We probably use all methods known to mankind to extract,glean vital information that saves or will save thousands of innocent lives.

In a dirty war both sides have to play dirty otherwise one side would quickly lose. So because the general public have innate sense of morality and fair play and do not wish to think that on their behalf their protectors have to engage in a lot of underhand,nasty, unlawful stuff, the security services must always provide a veneer of respectability when reporting their actions in fighting terrorism.

But it is a god awful murky dirty world and I have nothing but admiration for people that dedicate their lives to the service of their Country forsaking a normal life in many cases, just to keep YOU safe in your pleasant little existance.

So Yes when it comes down to it, we have to do some bad sh it sometimes because we are fighting the most evil,nasty, sub human, death worshipping vermin, people who are lost in extremism , brain washed to think they have a righteous duty to inflict the most evil savage torture on completely innocent people.

So please if you think we can fight people like this with slaps on the wrist or threats of jail or major leaflet campaign then think again. This evil has to be fought on all fronts using ALL weapons available.

These sub human murderous animals started this..........we MUST finish it.





.

[LeatherTrumpet]

it did result in the US getting Bin Laden..

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I don't recall calling you anything - I was referring to the report when I said that: "this is just the kind of 'Bleeding Heart', 'Wishy Washy' crap that fuels these murdering bastards cause and gains them sympathy where there should never be any." and it was addressed to Livia and not any kind of response to you.

But if you wish to so label yourself -- Don't let me stop you.

This is a democratic forum where all opinions are equally as welcome, so it is your prerogative to regard my views as 'warmongering rhetoric' and 'indiscriminate sh*t', but the fact that the latter does not sit well with you is unfortunately quite irrelevant as far as the validity of what I write is concerned.

As for "Nothing to do with ISIS" I never said it was, but your point is purely pedantic anyway, because the terrorism is the same, the 'cause' is the same, the bombings and murdering are the same, the names of the bombers and murdering bastards are the same - Ali, Aahmed, Aasif, Aasil (and we haven't moved from the letter 'A' yet) - only the names of the subhuman terrorist organisation changes.

As for your claim that: "There is a way to combat extremism without resorting to torture."

Perhaps you'd like to expound and outline just which "way" you allude to? How about we play fecking football for such vital information with Jihadi John? Perhaps we could use any of his innocent victim's severed heads as the football? First to three goals wins.

Again you have the God-given democratic right (for now, thanks to whatever it is that our security forces get up in private with terrorist murdering scumbags in order to protect our democratic way of life) to believe what you want. So when you state that you "are not gonna blindly justify those methods" because you believe the report and that the CIA interrogation "failed to secure information that foiled any threats", you are in order.

However, under the same God-given democratic rights, I have the prerogative to believe Director John Brennan when he states that: "The intelligence gained from the program was critical to our understanding of al-Qaeda and continues to inform our counter-terrorism efforts to this day."

You can take umbrage at my views and state that I am a warmonger, and I will state that it is people like you who need a reality check as to just what is happening in every country in this world with these inhuman, insane, evil. murdering dog turds, and your 'sense of PC fair play' is outdated, ludricous, and extremely dangerous.

Personally, this 'warmonger' could not give a flying feck as to just what any of the Security Services of the countries of the (still barely) 'Free' world get up to in order to extract information which may save lives and halt the March of Islamic Fundamentalism - and you can bet a £1.00 to a Dinar, that no matter what they get up to, it will pale into insignificance in comparison to the evil atrocities which these barbaric terrorist demons perpetrate daily.

I was referring to the actions of the CIA as 'indiscriminate sh*t' not anything you posted. And personally, yes I do see many justifications of torture as based on warmongering rhetoric, just as you see condemnations of it as 'bleeding heart' and 'wishy washy' crap.

I don't think we will ever agree on this so I won't pursue it too strongly. But let's just be clear again that this report was commissioned by members of government into a program stopped by Obama in 2009. And that the report has the backing of John McCain who is a strong believer in US military intervention and has been on the wrong end of torture himself. These are the people who are at the very heart of the battle against extremism and have been for years, and this is the government who is doing near on everything feasible to find Jihadi John and his lot. So don't make them out as some out of touch bleeding hearts who know nothing about the reality of war; they know full well.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Scrooge

it did result in the US getting Bin Laden..

The most important information obtained in the hunt for Bin Laden did not come from torture